Police officer pepper-sprays seated, non-violent students at UC Davis

reply to post by Hellas


I remember this little action. An 85 year old woman, a priest, and a blind woman walk into a protest.. cops mace them all indiscriminately. It's a bad joke.

I don't see any reason why the crowd couldn't mace them back. What could they do? They couldn't open fire on them. However if they caught the people they would be in jail for years while the cops can do it freely even though they have no way of knowing if they are spraying bystanders that were always on the sidewalk. Those sprays have a long reach.

Ugh...it's hard to communicate with those who have been lied too for their whole lives.
Our economic system is not viable...it cannot be sustained. It was designed to make a very few very rich...damn the rest.
We DO have economists that can design workable models...but, we are ruled by greedy corrupt old families who would rather we crash and burn than change.

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by mileysubet
You are quite the word smith, but that doesn't mean any of of arguments are valid when critically read.

So you believe the police are, in fact, entitled to assault people with weapons, even in situations where there is no threat of violence?

Since you feel that impeding a walkway (from whom, the other protestors? uh...?) is not "peaceful," do you then feel it is "violent"? 'Cause there's not really a grey area, there is no "maybe-sort-of protest." Further if this is your feeling, what do you have to say about methods of protest such as boycotts, strikes, and sit-ins (such as the famous lunch counter sit-ins of hte 1950's)

Further, is the point of protest not to draw attention?

Please explain.

A protest needs to draw attention, but it should not impede the normal flow of traffic. Its is really that simple.

It is not always about "protest".

If a group of people without a clear definition was to impede the flow of traffic in any through fair they would be arrested, and if they did not move to the warnings of the LEO's then an escalation of force would be used to remove them.

Thisi is what happened here, the people in the video clearly and delibretly chose to disobey local ordinances and where pepper sprayed to be removed.

Even if they did impede the flow of traffic, removal was 100% possible without assault.

You are ignoring the argument with semantic rhetoric.

Is it okay for police to use defensive weapons with force offensively against passively non-violent opposition?

The answer by LAW is no. They aren't. The answer if your a human being, is no -- they aren't.

Doing a petty non-violent crime with no resistance to arrest, regardless if you are in the wrong, does not then make it right for the police to commit crimes against the very people they swore to protect. They should do their job and remove you peacefully. If they can't remove you peacefully and you are not being violent, they should not turn coward and hide behind a weapon when a simple set of hand cuffs + an escort will do the trick.

They.Didn't.Even.Try.

They went straight to the pepper spray before arrest attempt number one.

Wtf is wrong with you and why are you purposefully skating around the argument? If I jay walk, I don't expect to get tackled... do you? It's that simple. This mentality that because someone broke the law in a non violent non physically threatening way so it's okay for the law to violate them, often in a violent manner, is a mentality of absurdly low intelligence.

You aren't listening/you are trolling/you are really that stupid?

Which is it honch?

Thanks to everyone that flagged this thread and raised some awareness. In my opinion this pepper spray attack and the one posted a few pages back by Hellas of cops pepper spraying in Seattle are very important events. They show a change in tolerance for the protesters. These are examples of the cops slipping up. It will do nothing, but bring more people out in the street.

The Seattle pepper spray incidence posted earlier by Hellas:

John Pike
530-752-3989
[email protected]

To hell with the bollocking I am going to get from the mods
I don't care anymore.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Indeed
I followed the path of violence all my life and accomplished nothing, was quite good at causing damage and harm to others. Born to kill runs in the blood line then realized that there is a even more powerful discipline.


When Jesus said to turn the other cheek i was like "never no way fight back" but i did not understand what he meant until i followed Gandhi's ideological genius that i realized i was till fighting back. Or like our saying goes "U RAGE I WIN"

Heh, there's more to "turn the other cheek" than that but you've got the right idea the right understanding.

Jesus was addressing the oppressed and downtrodden, who were being abused by Roman Imperial occupation, along with the Roman corruption of the temple, who was employing a tax collection system of usury to bleed Jesus' people dry, and they were all losing their land, and found themselves falling into indentured servitude!

"Turn the other cheek" was included with "Go the extra mile" and "If they ask for your tunic, give them your cloak as well."

But what this actually MEANS, in the context within which the teaching was given, is this!

The Roman soldiers would abuse their power often, and in relation to Jesus' community, there would be encounters with them.

For example, the roman soldiers (cops) would often, while mounted on a horse, offer a backhand blow when they were addressing you or accosting you, and "turning the other cheek" is the act of bravery of presenting them with a full on facial blow, and shaming them for having hit you in the first place. It doesn't mean what we've taken it to mean in modern times.

Likewise, "If they ask you to go a mile, go an extra mile with him" refers to the demand to carry their shiit, where a whole MILE would be rather excessive, and thus, offering to go ANOTHER MILE will produce the same effect.

Finally, "If they ask for your tunic, give them your cloak as well" involves stripping down to your underwear when they ask for your coat, once again producing the same result.

These addages of Jesus were surely presented with great mirth and were recieved with uproarious laughter and applause!

Makes a little more sense now eh, and it's amuzing! Thank you Jesus, and Ghandi for copying you. Well done, and once again the time has come when the money changers are in the temple, the whole system corrupt, and the people rendered as a lessor entity in relation to the "ruling elite" class.

Remember to, that Jesus was teaching these things to the oppressed and downtrodden of his society, in the face of an empire, which eventually had to relieve him of his authority, to rule again and rule the world for over a thousand years. Now THAT's POWER, Big Time!

His authority is with us, with you who resist a corrupt empire. They've lost and are fast losing their authority. Therefore, these minor laws can be broken in non-violent, Civil disobediance, since the courts authority to make laws is by the right of the consent of the people. It's an issue of authority and theft of and abuse of authority, and it's time we take it back in their face, while embarassing them wherever possible.

Jesus understood what was at stake. In part his "kingdom of heaven" was a way of differentiating realty and truth and life as it is, from the oppressive temporal power "kingdom" of assholes in uniform.

They have no idea who or what they're dealing with, in particular, how SMART we are and the depths of intelligence we can and will access as we fight this psychological war, which is what it is. We will win the war for the hearts and minds of WE THE PEOPLE

I would like to hereby dedicate the

WE THE PEOPLE

movement, to Professor Howard Zinn

Originally posted by keepithush
John Pike
530-752-3989
[email protected]

To hell with the bollocking I am going to get from the mods
I don't care anymore.

Thank you i did not have to take my regular trip to pastebin

I can use this in my new video

(I would have taken a strike for that too)

reply to post by mileysubet


Impede the flow of traffic?

What do you think of these protesters blocking the whole road demanding jobs now from the civil rights error,
And look at their signs, like the "hippies" in ows, except their grown men and women. How dare they protest!


newsone.com...

And the police reaction to some.

www.addictinginfo.org...

And look at these depression era posters of people looking for "hand-outs".

2.bp.blogspot.com...


And a picture of the depression era with men fighting the banking foreclosures

www.chicagotribune.com...


So, with that in mind, were you also against the protests in the past like the above.

Perhaps we should do away with protests all together, or perhaps, they can get a "permission permit" from "our" government to protest in a wooded area deep in the woods, away from other eyes.

Is that what you want?

Seriously americans, you got a country full of gun nuts some of whom shoot up schools and rallies but noone who deserves it?

As soon as someone fires the first shot cops will wake up in the morning and realise; sheeet i mite get whats coming to me today.

Ask yourselves who in school wanted to be a policeman? I dont know about the older generation but people dont become police these days to help people - you dont help people by being a cop these days.

I knew a guy who wanted to be a policeman now he is a nom member

I honestly think there is no room for cops these days, anon has the rite idea - who would commit a crime if they risked being named and shamed on the internet?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Malcher

 

They are cops. They don't half do it. They do it for effectiveness. Any cop will tell you.
Same reason they don't shoot their gun unless it's a kill shot. They don't shoot for the knees. They aren't dilluting pepper spray.. why would they risk it not being effective. Think about it for a second.

The cops aren't going to do this on film and get the bad press that goes with it and not use regular pepper spray. All that would do is make them look just as bad without getting the job done.

The police are trained to wound not kill. Sorry, I had to say it. I've competed in IPSC with police, I've also been to training seminars were police officers were present. A police officer is trained in the use of " Appropriate force " Not one of their weapons is meant to be used in any way other than self defense, and I see absolutely no need for ANY force of ANY kind. Even if these protesters were told repeatedly to move from the middle of a path, and even if they were standing and their answer to move was to sit no weapons or force of any kind is acceptable according the the law they are there to enforce. There is obviously enough officers to have arrested this group of protestors. This is one officers Jerry rig of a solution for this situation. " Awe man, I just worked all night and got called in for this!!! # it, Hey guys check this out. Hyuck hyuck "

Oh and by the looks of it, that lovely Orange Dye tells all. It is Pepper spray or a chemical equivalent. By the looks of the canister it's a step up from standard issue. In fact on first glance it looked like Bear spray, but I'm pretty sure Riot cops carry a different unit then standard police officers. How ever, many officers tend to replace their standard issue with a piece they obtain on their own.

For reference sake.

Originally posted by jacobe001
reply to post by mileysubet

 

And look at these depression era posters of people looking for "hand-outs".

2.bp.blogspot.com...

I'm sure when you said people.. you meant SOCIALISTS!
Didn't you know that if you expect anything back from the government you constantly "invest" money in nowadays you area socialist?

reply to post by Ilyich


I agree with you on all counts, except police trained to wound not kill. Every police I have ever talked to has said when they don't pull their gun unless they intend to use it and they don't shoot unless they intend to kill.
Otherwise they wouldn't pull it at all.

The only reason I even mentioned deadly force though was to parallel that fact with the other posters argument that it was probably diluted pepper spray. Which I safely disagree with. It was just regular pepper spray of course.

Ahh yes, I forgot to include the word socialist

Thanks for correcting me.

However, if your a cockroach bankster, then, money will flow from the sky for you and your cronies

reply to post by Ilyich


Your statement about wounding and not killing could not be any more wrong, at least in Wisconsin. The Wisconsin Defense and Arrest Tactics (DAAT - which is widely available online) shows that any use of Deadly Force is to "stop the threat". Police don't take out their gun and aim at your leg. They shoot to stop the threat.

With that being said, the most striking thing for me is this thug calmly walking over the line of protesters before opening up on them with OC Spray. I wouldn't call that "active resistance" (which warrants OC Spray), I would call that "passive resistance" which warrants other tactics which include compliance holds. If those fail, then you have your "active resistance" and can move to OC Spary. Now we don't know if there was any "active resistance" before the filming began, that would tell the whole story.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Well said, and you got it out before me. Also, you are dead on about "diluted pepper spray", it just simply is not used in the field.

Why in the world would they use "diluted" pepper spray? You wouldn't know if it would work properly or not. It just doesn't make any sense at all....

this is on the front page of the MSM now

Front page of msnbc article

If the cop if there, that probably means that someone called him. If the administrators of the university want these guys gone, they can call the cops to do just that, and it is their right. Macing people is an effective way of making people move their asses.

This is how we humans treat each other. Ignorance is a choice.

There is NO excuse to treat your brothers and sisters this way, even if you disagree with them

Originally posted by Athin
This is perfectly legal.
When asked to move and stop blocking a walkspace they did not move.
They were told they would be sprayed.
He held the can up to show them he was starting.
They remained there so they can be martyrs.

It's not about "gestapo", "inciting a riot" or "illegal cops". It's about common sense. If you see someone with a gun and he tells you he's going to shoot you if you don't move... would you move? Of course. Same theory here.

This isn't the first time this has happened and it will not be the last. If they had sat in the field the cops would have done nothing. The students did this to themselves.

Martyrs? You know typing this gets you flagged at the FBI supercomputer headquarters right? It's a red flagged word for all of the interwebz. Will you explain to me how in life you are able to say they wanted to be martyrs? Do you even know what martyrs means? I put myself down for thinking I am stupid sometimes. You just showed me I was wrong.