Military training and it's effect on humans

"A Marine who had been the leader of an eight-man sniper team in Afghanistan for several tours was looking for a job in Maryland when he was interviewed by a reporter. He said he was having great difficulty in getting a decent job. He said: "Maybe my skill set keeps me from getting a position." This war started as a disaster and is ending as one. We stumbled on the curve and lost the race and the war over eight years ago.

Just a week ago an Army Green Beret Soldier was killed during his 14th deployment to Afghanistan. He is part of the one percent fighting in a country that the other 99 percent don't give a damn about anymore. Why does history always repeat itself when it comes to war? What makes us think we can do better than Alexander the Great, the English, and the Russians in turning Afghanistan into an actual country instead of counties of troublesome tribal enclaves? Being there only emphasizes we are totally ignorant of the country."

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
"A Marine who had been the leader of an eight-man sniper team in Afghanistan for several tours was looking for a job in Maryland when he was interviewed by a reporter. He said he was having great difficulty in getting a decent job. He said: "Maybe my skill set keeps me from getting a position." This war started as a disaster and is ending as one. We stumbled on the curve and lost the race and the war over eight years ago.

Just a week ago an Army Green Beret Soldier was killed during his 14th deployment to Afghanistan. He is part of the one percent fighting in a country that the other 99 percent don't give a damn about anymore. Why does history always repeat itself when it comes to war? What makes us think we can do better than Alexander the Great, the English, and the Russians in turning Afghanistan into an actual country instead of counties of troublesome tribal enclaves? Being there only emphasizes we are totally ignorant of the country."

edit on 25-11-2011 by MarkScheppy because: add

I thnk the west needs to turn it's back on the whole region.

Originally posted by SumerianSoldier
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

Probably the best explanation given that I've heard. (Star for you, Sir!) When I returned home from USMC basic, I immediately felt the difference between my friends mentality and my own. My mentality was more mature, more confident. There really is no way to explain it, it is something that is experienced. On a side note, after I was discharged it took me many years to feel completely at ease around my friends again. By then, we were moving into other phases of our lives. Kids, careers, or in some cases, continued doing what they had been doing. I think we, meaning military personnel (Active or inactive) feel that we were doing something important. Upholding the beliefs our country was founded upon, regardless of how far our country's government may have skewed its direction in present day. I can promise you this: When the # hits the fan, you're gonna be damn happy that you know someone that's been in the service, they just might help to keep you alive. Then again, they may remember your (your: meaning some of the military haters) posts and leave you to fend for yourselves. To the OP, I hope you find some peace and comfort in your personal life!

Don't mess with this guy he can break a piece of a sheet rock over his head and can karate bash Chuck norris into oblivion. With the go eat a bucket of bolts and screwdrivers kick mentality. His name is nightmare and you don't have to second guess his trust. Van Damme not. If you are on his side then you are ok, but don't be this man's enemy. He will gargoyle you out with a siphon pump of heavy industry steel. Beneath it all the gruss, military man is a Renaissance man. Like beauty and they are loyal with sacrifice. Heroes for a generation they deserve to be in the pantheon of America's greatest and her finest. I give my hat and my bloody teeth to those great Men and women who serve and who can twirl and break me upside down into a pretzel. Turn me into a comfortable bench. They are SPACE MONKEYZ and titans of the new world don't mess with his chicken coup. The Strange irony of man, who protect and serve this nation but get their backs spit on by the worker back home. Beasts hands of destruction I would not want the military man against me. The military man sacrifices his life and all for a cause for his country. They don't have superman abilities just raw gut courage and scars to show from their severe pounding. All for one and one for all the Muskateer says, and the savage force of America's finest are there. Call him a circus animal freak and a fist will be rammed in your throat like a ball in a bowling alley. He will fight and die and crazy go nutts for you until the end.

Originally posted by MarkScheppy

Originally posted by Equidae
What do T.E. Lawrence's sexual proclivities have to do with anything? He really more or less BSed about his 'accomplishments' and their strategic implications in the Middle East (though apparently his fascination with S&M was true...) For a long time the only information about Lawrence was what he himself wrote (which was more or less that he's awesome and united every Arab tribe known to man.)

I'm a gay man, have been to the Middle East, and have not been struck by the urge to conquer/unite/whatever it. In fact what I would like to do once I finish med school is to go back to do relief work. Tbh we didn't get much in the way of propaganda other than 'they have Man Love Thursdays' and 'if you're about to be captured save a bullet for yourself because all they'll do is saw your head off and post the video on the internet.' The first bit seems more like confusion about their social norms (though I honest to Raptor Jesus saw what appeared to be a man and a donkey having some alone time on a thermal camera...) The last bit I more or less accept as probably if not guaranteed.

edit on 23/11/11 by Equidae because: (no reason given)

The propaganda that American forces face today in Iraq was already started by people like Lawrence of Arabia. This homosexual tendancy is crucial for venting angry and frustration in other parts of the world and destroying places (based on sexual preference). Not all homosexuals but when it comes to world politics then a man like Lawrence Arabia who is given authority to do the will of the British empire, to subjugate people and make them slaves for control. That gives it a different flavour I would say.

The psychopath takes on different meaning, where you are starting a war where before there was none. And men of deviant sexuality like Lawrence of Arabia who become these spiffy like-folk heroes, it just displays how this is all a big comic ritual by the people in empire who orchestrate wars. It is interesting that the Bohemian Grove club still do rituals where the grown men all get naked and do mock sacrifices to Mol-ech. Conquer a nation and the gay men (no offense) can happily dance around in poppy fields.

Probably most of what you say is true and most of what I say is not relevant. But I know that propaganda is what started the war and the occuption, in Arab lands. We aren't really writing their laws, we want them to write their own laws, while we continue stationing there. That is as you say Catch-22. "Man Love Thursdays?" That really has a Lawrence of Arabia sound to it, though I doubt his was just on thursdays!

edit on 25-11-2011 by MarkScheppy because: add

Good point. I get defensive when people allude to homosexuality as being inherently deviant, but agree with you in that repression leads people to do ridiculous things. It's no coincidence that many of the staunchest 'family value' politicians and religious leaders tend to have some interesting sexual proclivities.

I'm not so sure about Afghanistan, but Iraq was definitely the result of propaganda (still looking for those weapons of mass destruction ). Afghanistan is an especially bitter topic for me because of friends who have been wounded and killed there. Ultimately we will leave, and it will be no more different than when we got there. The only difference is who is the Karzai thugs are doing the subjugating instead of the Taliban.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
"A Marine who had been the leader of an eight-man sniper team in Afghanistan for several tours was looking for a job in Maryland when he was interviewed by a reporter. He said he was having great difficulty in getting a decent job. He said: "Maybe my skill set keeps me from getting a position." This war started as a disaster and is ending as one. We stumbled on the curve and lost the race and the war over eight years ago.

Just a week ago an Army Green Beret Soldier was killed during his 14th deployment to Afghanistan. He is part of the one percent fighting in a country that the other 99 percent don't give a damn about anymore. Why does history always repeat itself when it comes to war? What makes us think we can do better than Alexander the Great, the English, and the Russians in turning Afghanistan into an actual country instead of counties of troublesome tribal enclaves? Being there only emphasizes we are totally ignorant of the country."

edit on 25-11-2011 by MarkScheppy because: add

I thnk the west needs to turn it's back on the whole region.

I don't think we should turn our back on the Middle East. I do think we need to reevaluate how we go about things there. You can't undo the scars that years of colonialism leave, and those people have every right to be wary of anyone bringing an intervention into their homes.

i wish there was a draft sometimes...

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
i wish there was a draft sometimes...

Don't know about that. Not every one is suited to being in combat and would be more of a liability then anything else.

I've read the sentiment from soldiers that they feel they are more 'Mature' and 'confident'. And then i read about how difficult it is for them to find work back home.

There is clearly an issue here.

One thing i have noticed is that military men/women have ideas about themselves that I (with no offence intended) feel are B.S.

This was an issue with myself and a friend of mine. his attitude needed some serious adjustment and he needed to be taken down a few pegs because the ridiculous amount of confidence and sense of maturity and experience was, while definatly there to a certain extent, not what was observed.

He had been trained to believe certain things about himself that simply were not true.
(NOTE: he has since scaled back his 'I am Chuck Norris' attitude to a more believable 'I am me' attitude and we are still great friends)

Military training provides the individual with skills and a mindset that they MUST HAVE to survive combat and working in the military environment. But these skills and mindsets do not translate to a civilian life, at least the more extreme parts of them.

I've said before that much of the training provided gives a person structure and direction and improves a person in general but the real problem arises when they are no longer in the (ironically) sheltered military environment.

The military is a machine and the rest of the world is a living entity, two very different things. The rules are different and some people don't seem to understand this.

"This is not how it's supposed to work" is a pretty common paraphrased comment that i've heard from the mouths of military/ex-military men and women.
This is not how it's supposed to work in a military environment perhaps but the rest of the world is different.
It's not as structured, or more accuratly, it is WAY more complex then the military life.

This is why we have religion and philosophy, because the answers to being a human being are not as easy as the answers to being in the military.

The difficulties in the military are obvious and many and have answers and methods of approach.
The difficulties in society are not so obvious and infinite and have few answers and infinite methods of approach.

It's almost a virtual world, structured and constructed, with narrowly defined rules. with the exception of how your mind reacts to being in actual combat it is very black and white.

The rest of life, ie: society, is completely grey, no black, no white, just shades in between.

It's the idea that they have somehow perfected living that causes these divides.
And it's only natural that an attitude like this would be developed as it works so very well when your in the military.

Look at a hollywood action-movie character. the things they do and say and the way they act are perfect for that particular environment, but to act that way outside of the movie would be ridiculous, you'd end up shot dead by a S.W.A.T team.

You've nailed military life, got it to a tee. but this is not so useful for civilian life, infact it's borderline counter-productive.

A lot of people would not employ an ex-military person simply because they seem like they will begin taking over, They have more confidence then seems warranted.

Not easy to explain and i mean zero offence, i'm just trying to put into words the massive difference's between military and civilian life.

Don't confuse being a good soldier with being a good member of society because the two roles required vastly different skill sets and attitudes.

one doesn't respect the other because the other can't do what the one can.

And we can't all be in the military but we can all be in society, there were civilians even in ancient sparta.
To get by and prosper without the benefit of a structured environment is worthy of just as much respect as being a good soldier.

A tool can be a weapon and a weapon a tool. never forget this.

Originally posted by beautyndissonance

Originally posted by Hootsmanwheresmaheid
reply to post by beautyndissonance

 

Why can't the military just stop serving? All they have to do is wake up!!!

Because they are under a contractual obligation to serve a period of no less than 8 years active or inactive and they have more honor than to just quit and hide from their obligations to their country, and family. If everyone was a coward like you, our world would be far worse than it currently is. Our military training in today's society, is nothing compared to what it was thousands of years ago. Think about the Romans, Spartans, Persians, and Trojans, if you thank we are a blood thirsty pack, imagine living back then, when not only would they kill on impulse and desire, but would also rape, pillage, and plunder when they were finished.

Errrm, the modern day army's still do that sht and it's either covered up or done away from the media glare.

During high-intensity operations the rule's go out the window in warfare! Always have, always will.

Even during training excercises there's bloodlust and violence going on, albeit usually less-lethal than the real thing!

Roman soldiers served 25 years and got a pension (land).
Soldiers in modern forces like the UK (plus the US I think) serve 20+ years and get a pension.

reply to post by Raivan31


Prescient post, Raivan. But you've forgotten that, and I don't want to sound too cliche', military people are also good at adapting.

Having said that, I've known people inside the military that served in high-speed jobs that weren't even able to make the transition back into the "regular" military. Those people are a personality type unto their own, and they have civilian equivalents.

Originally posted by Raivan31

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
i wish there was a draft sometimes...

Don't know about that. Not every one is suited to being in combat and would be more of a liability then anything else.

There should be a public service draft. Everyone should have to complete a certain amount of time of service for the public good be it the Peace Corps, Teach For America, the military, or whatever else. One of my frustrations as a veteran in my first year of college is how many of my 17/18 year old peers view their responsibilities to society. That is, they feel they don't have one. It's more common to hear how society owes them! A democracy can't function without a certain amount of sacrifice from the populace. Most Americans don't even vote, and the younger you are the more likely it is you aren't even registered.

Requiring just a little from the populace can end up getting them to want to contribute much more. I was in the military. I did join because I wanted to serve my country, but a big factor was also how it would help pay for my education. I knew I wanted to be a doctor before I enlisted. Going to Afghanistan twice exposed me to levels of poverty that are hard to even contemplate. One of our local relief missions was bringing supplies to a village, and part of that was feminine products for the women. When we arrived the children mobbed us for stuff, and some managed to nab the box full of feminine products. In no time they'd ripped open the box. There were 4 and 5 year olds brawling over pads and tampons. They had no clue what they were for, but just to have something was worth risking injury to them even if it might not be useful to them.

That was one of the incidents I witnessed that made me not just want to go to med school, but do humanitarian work. Before deploying I might have considered a stint in the Peace Corps, but not devoting a large amount of time working in third world countries. Now I want to have nonprofit work be a large chunk of my career, and I really don't think I would have this mentality if I didn't have those experiences.

reply to post by Raivan31


I think a lot of your experiences (especially with Mr. I Am Chuck Norris) have unfortunately been with what we like to call Boots (n00bs.) That mentality is an important part of the formation of a soldier, but gets tempered as you spend time in the actual military. The most obnoxious military people to deal with are the new ones, or the ones that never really experience the 'real' military (career recruiters, career drill instructors, career asskissers, or headquarters Admin Rangers.) The more actual military stuff someone does, the more laid back they are. I personally am uncomfortable when people thank me. I did my part, but I am definitely no hero and being treated that way by well meaning people is awkward for me. I don't talk about my time in except if I'm directly asked, in a job interview, or with a fellow veteran. I was never a door kicker or special ops ninja, but I have the privilege of being friends with a few. They will barely even mention being in the military, let alone try to make you feel that they're better than you.

I can sympathize with the 'this isn't how stuff should run' mentality. The military is all about teamwork, and it can be frustrating to deal with people who focused completely on themselves. For me one of the most frustrating aspects of being a civilian has been the complete absence of teamwork in the workplace. The phrase 'One Team, One Fight' comes to mind because that is how you are taught to approach everything you do in the military. You may be an admin clerk who never leaves the States, but your mistakes can ultimately affect an infantryman in a combat zone who cannot afford to spend time trying to fix mistakes in his paperwork. So you learn to approach all that you do with that mentality, and to go to a workplace which does have that focus is jarring.

Another aspect is how you are accustomed to dealing with hardship, and with the knowledge that it can always be worse. So it can also be frustrating to hear people whining about stuff that seems petty in comparison to what your or people you have known have went through. It isn't that we think we're better, it's just the wisdom that perspective brings (especially when you gain the perspective at a comparatively young age.)

When I hear classmates whine about getting up for a 9am class when I've had schedules that had me be at work during the 4:30-6am range. When I hear people whine about how long the day is when I've had schedules of 12 hour crews not including extra duties or standing watch and PT afterwards. When you hear people complain about not getting to go home for a holiday when I've had friends who have missed birthdays, anniversaries, the birth of children, and funerals because of 1+ year deployments. When you hear someone complain about traffic, and you've had to convoy in a combat zone. When you hear people complain about the cold, and you have had the experience of standing watch at 3am in completely rainsoaked gear while watching puddles ice over. When people complain about a lumpy mattress and you've had to sleep under vehicles, on HMMWV hoods, or in the back of a 7 ton. When someone complains about stress at work and you've simultaneously monitored multiple radio nets, several computer windows, kept an ear open for stuff happening on your crew, maintained an events log, kept multiple maps up to date, and trained a new guy. When someone complains at how their feet hurt and you've had friends who've lost limbs, had brain damage, or been paralyzed. When you hear someone complain about not getting to see their friends back home often, and you have friends you'll never see again because they're dead.

In a way I suppose it does make you a better person in terms of resiliency, time management, handling stress, and situational awareness. Things that used to send me into fits of worry before are now much easier to assess and handle simply because I've dealt with much more difficult situations. I do not think I am a better person, but I do feel that I am a more mature and capable person when compared to my peers.

Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by beautyndissonance

Originally posted by Hootsmanwheresmaheid
reply to post by beautyndissonance

 

Why can't the military just stop serving? All they have to do is wake up!!!

Because they are under a contractual obligation to serve a period of no less than 8 years active or inactive and they have more honor than to just quit and hide from their obligations to their country, and family. If everyone was a coward like you, our world would be far worse than it currently is. Our military training in today's society, is nothing compared to what it was thousands of years ago. Think about the Romans, Spartans, Persians, and Trojans, if you thank we are a blood thirsty pack, imagine living back then, when not only would they kill on impulse and desire, but would also rape, pillage, and plunder when they were finished.

Errrm, the modern day army's still do that sht and it's either covered up or done away from the media glare.

During high-intensity operations the rule's go out the window in warfare! Always have, always will.

Even during training excercises there's bloodlust and violence going on, albeit usually less-lethal than the real thing!

Roman soldiers served 25 years and got a pension (land).
Soldiers in modern forces like the UK (plus the US I think) serve 20+ years and get a pension.

what modern military are you referring to? North Korea? Myanmar? There are well documented and established rules to combat. And at least in the American military they never shut up about them. I've been to an insane amount of law of warfare and escalation of force briefs.

To do an artillery fire or air strike requires going up multiple command levels. When I left my second Afghanistan deployment the rules for airstrikes included: cannot be close to dwellings, cannot fire on crowds even if a gunman is hiding in them and shooting at you, cannot fire on children (the Taliban would actually kidnap children to bring with them when they laid IEDs in broad daylight because they knew we couldn't fire on them.) Coalition forces could be continuously getting shot at, and there would be no way to retaliate without physically going over there to separate the fighters from civilians. There is no way to hide or lie about that, either because there are drones up everywhere taking constant video feed which everyone and their mother watches.

Even if we did there is absolutely no way to hide something like that today. There are reporters everywhere! Embedded with us, embedded with the insurgents, independently running around, etc. Journalists only need approval if they are embedded with coalition forces, and even then they have a lot of leeway. Not to mention what the locals or enemy fighters have. They aren't stupid, they have camera phones and everything else you could use to record stuff with, and will upload them to the internet. A quick look at Al Jazeera shows numerous videos taken by insurgents of stuff from all over the battlefield. If an atrocity does happen there is no way to hide it. It will eventually be discovered. That's why I laugh whenever I hear conspiracy theories involving the military. Anyone who has actually been in the military knows that nothing can truly stay a secret. Ever. That's just human nature.

en.wikipedia.org...

And I don't know what training exercises you've witnessed, but I haven't experienced anything like that. Bloodlust is the exact opposite of what you are trained for. Modern training emphasizes self control, and keeping your cool while making decisions. Combat training is actually highly cerebral, technical, and emphasizes proficiency. You do drills and scenarios over and over to ensure an appropriate reaction to a given scenario, and to override an emotional reaction in a situation. You get none of that if you just send troops willy nilly destroying everything, not to mention it is psychologically disastrous. In purely cost-benefit terms that makes no sense.

Originally posted by tangonine
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Prescient post, Raivan. But you've forgotten that, and I don't want to sound too cliche', military people are also good at adapting.

Having said that, I've known people inside the military that served in high-speed jobs that weren't even able to make the transition back into the "regular" military. Those people are a personality type unto their own, and they have civilian equivalents.

We are a complex critter and not easily defined or understood i suppose.

reply to post by Equidae

Those are my observations exactly! I've heard the stories relayed before and i agree that it is a real hardship.

I've had my own 'civilian' hardships that easily compare to the ones you listed.
I've been shot at, almost killed, beaten, raped, hunted by crazy people who were armed, stabbed, slepped out in the cold on the hard ground, gone without food for several days at a time, attacked by wild animals, and on and on.
And i dealt with this all with very little help, if any, from any one else.

I know hardship.

Teamwork: Me and my best mate (who was a military skills instructor for several years among other pretty 'hollywood' roles) Work as a team exceedingly well despite my lack of training.
We share the same views and have the same grudges and issues with civillian life.

My point here is that why would i not understand these things?
How are my experiences any less dramatic and wisdom inducing then anyone else's?

I went through the things listed above with no preparation, no training, no support, no guidance and no equipment.
Surely thats worthy of at least a modicum of respect.

I'm now stuck in a disorganised, unstructured civillian environment that makes no sense to me and 'doesn't work the way it supposed to'
I work hard to get the oppoutunity to work less hard so i can feed and clothe myself and i get nowhere because i can't rely on the civillian world to play by any rules.

I've faced death on several occaisions, i know sheer terror.

And here i am now. I have things, a place to live, everything except a job and a 'better half'.
And i done all of this without the benefit of military training.
Unscarred by trials.

Then i get told that i don't understand. That my experiences are somehow 'less' then their's when quite often the experiences they had were fabricated during some training exercise. I know very few people who have actually seen 'real' combat. And the ones that have were armed when they did. They were allowed to shoot back.

Everytime i've 'shot back' (though i've never been armed as such) i've ended up answering to the police and only narrowly avoided going to jail for it.

I still whinge about petty stuff because i'm happy to only have petty stuff to complain about.

Perspective is the damdest thing you know.

ADD: The people who have seen real combat often relate to me better then the ones who have not.

How many of you know what goes through your head when faced with the probability that you will have to kill someone?

Grimpachi
We may wind up attacking them if they continue to pursue nuclear weapons.
Are you of Muslim desent or is your family from Iran originaly.

As I stated before in a previouse post they attacked us and 9/11 is a fact it was supported by the factions I listed. The ones breeding terrerists are those factions.

The terrorists are the green people talking about Windpower and Solar power, eco-terrorists, that is what I call them. A form of genocide. Reading some of John F. Kennedy's Corinthianian quotes (American gospels) you couldn't be further from the biblical reality of a Christian (let's hope not Hagee) if you go with the United States attacks Iran, with more Hoax (WMD's). Military personnel have luckily and wisely admitted to the fact that propaganda started the Iraq war, said WMDs have yet to be found in Iraq (Some believe in them, as maybe they can sprout wings and fly to us as like the tooth fairy!)

Groups like Congress for Cultural freedom have already gone after very idea of progress, the achievements of actually human civilization, subverting civilization with already disatrous effects, even globally... As gravitor mentioned the Enemy is within, and our traitors are within the government. The sense of classical tragedy impels us to hear the anguish of the past it's unrealized achievements, and to discover, if we are able to do so, the means for nourishing an outcome which the past has consigned to realization in either our present, or our future.

They want us to believe things will be "ok" (with our 401 K and then it bellies up to nothing). You take orders but would killing national civilians be your job if that was your order? Commiting "orders" of military action against Iran (when clearly, this is another empire war). A Congress that is clearly run by tyrannical jerks (or british term is wankers). It's for resources and control you are doing worse than shooting civilians in America. Would Apostle Paul say attack Iran and attack Muslims because CNN is shocking us with propaganda? People are just becoming low order reactionary monkeys like the empire wants us to be, obedient trained chimps.

"It is government that does the hard things — not private enterprise. If they were easy — if there were a quick buck to be made doing it - someone would already be doing it and making that quick buck."

PLASIFISK

Moving on, " many of the current military are so easily controlled and ordered to murder whoever they feel is inferior".

Well there is a chain of command. I'm in charge of some, and there are those in charge of me! Accordingly, we accept responsibility for the actions of those we are in charge of. Yes I give lawful orders, and am given direct orders. Now we are not ORDERED to murder anybody. We have a mission, and carry it out. Our rules of engagement give detailed rules of what justifiable use of force may be used in a situation. However, if you are showing an attempt to take my life, I will match your force with the same intent. Inferiority has nothing to do with it.

Next, "that they really are becoming the borg, a cult that all operate as one...a brotherhood of same minded beings that consider their way, the only way"

Hey Mark of the Beast, it is the system now, especially in Afghanistan where it is serving the Queen (the whore of babylon). It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to make the good honest citizens criminals of the state. And enforced by state-run military (heiryarchy-esque) police, run like cartels in Mexico and south of the border. And now a Super Congress "Junta," europeans can see that our congress is now being run by cabal wealthy super-rich beurocrats from Europe. The military sounds you work for sounds like an organization run by a group of The Brotherhood of the Serpent.

If your C.O. didn't make you do something I could see how easy it would be for your unit or a simple bunch of peons to do the henchman work. Step-by-step the US, being led to its doom.

Originally posted by Equidae
Going to Afghanistan twice exposed me to levels of poverty that are hard to even contemplate. One of our local relief missions was bringing supplies to a village, and part of that was feminine products for the women. When we arrived the children mobbed us for stuff, and some managed to nab the box full of feminine products. In no time they'd ripped open the box. There were 4 and 5 year olds brawling over pads and tampons. They had no clue what they were for, but just to have something was worth risking injury to them even if it might not be useful to them.

That was one of the incidents I witnessed that made me not just want to go to med school, but do humanitarian work. Before deploying I might have considered a stint in the Peace Corps, but not devoting a large amount of time working in third world countries. Now I want to have nonprofit work be a large chunk of my career, and I really don't think I would have this mentality if I didn't have those experiences.

That sucks Equidae, I could not fathom. Consider the forces that can cause such poverty and how really powerless military forces are in even its best functioning guise is in trying to uphold justice and democracy over there in that part of the world.

You are a Promethean guy trying to bring the fire of hope to those poor kids in Afghanistan. I know we should all fight to become better people and to make other people better and see the truth. You (and others) have had a very sobering reality in the conditions of the world that that terrible profound poverty exists. The civy's in the fascist world of work who just want to make a buck and someday's could care less about running over the person in front of them to get that bigger car or house. It is sickening I can see your Military viewpoint there. Luxuries, that even poor people in the US can really NOT complain compared to some places.

PLASIFISK
Calling you ICE CUBE was in response to you thinking I'VE lost my cool. Never happens.
Our way only matters to us, those going against us. OUR way has nothing to do with YOU. We are not trying to train you.

Lastly," But I see them as deluded and dangerous."

Oh can't forget the "Christian Right" in America.


DIGG THIS

If anyone still thinks that the radical end-times "prophecy" movement is not a threat to peace and stability, think again. At the popular level, in terms of the TV preachers and the hot-selling prophecy books, the dispensational pre-trib stuff still reigns supreme. Most conservative-leaning Evangelical churches in America today are heavily influenced by popular dispensational theology to some extent. Even churches and pastors that don’t teach pretribulationalism still are influenced by dispensationalism to varying degrees.

The most dangerous element of this prophetic paradigm, however, is its doom-and-gloom view of the world. And in most cases, those who have a fascination with the end of the world have a particular fascination with war and militarism as well. More problematic, it assumes that their wars of choice are not just their own foreign policy preferences or personal opinions. Rather they are ordained by God. In 2003, more than a few pastors and influential Christian figures basically said that opposing the Iraq war was opposing God’s end-time plan. According to Evangelical end-times enthusiasts, if you opposed the Iraq war, you didn’t just hate your country and the troops, now you were opposing God and the Bible as well.

An even bigger obsession for dispensationalists has always been Israel. For the average dispensationalist, modern-day secular Israel is going to be the focal point in the end-times. Therefore, if the Bible really does teach in Daniel 9:27 that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is going to be torn down for a rebuilt Jewish Temple, why should any of us seek to prevent it? Sure, it very well might ignite a regional war and even ignite tensions around the world, but it's all part of God’s prophetic plan. Not to worry though, things might not get really ugly until after the "rapture," so the Christians today who are cheering for events that would bring about World War III won’t have to worry about it anyway. Unless of course, they are wrong about the whole thing.
Nutcase Preacher John Hagee Wants war with IRAN and he wants it NOW

reply to post by MarkScheppy


If you think terrorists are the ones who choose clean energy over coal and oil then there is something wrong with you.

I have also noticed you like to quote the bible a lot as if that lends you credibility. How many lives have been lost to religon I ask? Just try to count them. Since you mention the tooth fairy I will tell you that seems as plauseble as your god being the authority on these matters.

It seems you wan't to stand on a soap box and preach. Isn't there something in your bible about casting stones.

I have read enough of your comments to know there is no reasoning with you so I will leave this conversation on this note.
Some of us live in the real world where things are not black and white and for those delluded enough to think the world is or can be like that, I simply wish them luck.

Oh and FYI. U32 enriched to 4% is all that is needed for a nuclear reactor Iran has currently enriched U32 to 35% and is trying to enrich it further. I am not certain on the exact number where U32 becomes useless for a reactor but the number is below 35%. I do not believe in waiting for the enemy to stike first I am not a sheep.