Occupy Oakland: Death to Capitalism

reply to post by The_Oracle


You missed the point. The government and reckless spending were the problem. I can't see how you can blame capitalism for the problems of the world economy.

reply to post by 547000


I can by saying that the very same values that capitalism supports and that have permeated all aspects of the world we live in have lead to its downfall everywhere.Why? Because the world cannot support such a wasteful and immoral lifestyle.It's days are done,it's outdated and it's time to move on to better systems.

The only reason it's immoral is because society scorns religion and spiritual values. The Frankfurt School and other marxists were very effective at leading society to a socialistic revolution.

Originally posted by 547000
The only reason it's immoral is because society scorns religion and spiritual values. The Frankfurt School and other marxists were very effective at leading society to a socialistic revolution.

I don't quite get what you're saying,because from what I understand if society would be more religious and have spiritual values,but here I'm guessing connected with the church and all,then capitalism would be okay and moral?

If it is as you say then even more reason to be an atheist I guess,and believe in science,and the scientific method in creating a Resource Based Economy which is humane,moral and addresses the needs of humanity,rather then the needs of the few as capitalism does.

reply to post by The_Oracle


Capitalism is moral. The right to private property is moral. Religion is the glue that holds society together: when men are true to their world and are not materialistic Capitalism is the best system. Without religion, either population needs to be tiny or the state must be punitive. Marxism is materialistic, so its derivatives lead to much suffering. Because the Marxist predictions of revolution failed, some people decided to create the conditions needed for revolution, while others decided to artificially have a revolt. The former decided the culture must be eliminated. The "evils" of Capitalism today is because the masses eschew religion. And they eschew religion because that's what they are taught is true in academia,which was in turn taught by those Marxists. Until you do the research for yourself you will not understand. Start by researching on the process of subversion.

reply to post by 547000


Tell that to the millions dying from starvation,because the capitalist way of thought encourages the mass exploitation of people,excessive ownership of property to the point of monopolization,and ending in corrupting everything we do.

And religion has nothing to do with any of this,people can be a law abiding citizens with ethics and morality,and still end up dying because they lack the resources to sustain themselves.All if this makes the system look criminal,which it is,because humanity has allowed this decaying way of thinking to flourish until this day.It should've been killed off a long time ago along with all the other outdated systems,simply because they only work for the few,and always have been.It's how they were designed at their core.

A little something for you to see how capitalism has contributed to humanity:


The most basic problems we face today are no longer individual challenges. Corruption, hunger, lack of housing, these are all global challenges. Statistics can be different for us all, but the problems are the same.

However, we continue to cling to our precious identities. Artificial labeling like country, religion, class, color, race, and many other, are each made to divide, and not unite us. Through our self-preservative perspective, we fail to realize how much they damage they to our environment. So not only does our planet face environmental problems,but now she must endure human conflicts as well.

>> 1 billion people suffer from hunger, hunger kills one person per second.
>> 3 billion people worldwide live on less than $ 2 / day
>> 1 of 3 people die from causes related to malnutrition;
>> 10 countries have nuclear capabilities.
>> 21 armed conflicts took place in the last decade.
>> 17 wars are ongoing, even today (2 of them, including Kashmir, more than 60 years).
>> 56 million people die each year from diseases caused by pollution.
>> 30% of amphibians, 23% of mammals and 12% of bird species are threatened with extinction, while one in ten rivers dry every year before it flows into the sea.
>> Losing one hectare of forest every 2 seconds.
>> A species disappear every 3 minutes.
>> In 1890, the top five of the warmest years were 2005, 1998, 2002, 2003 and 2004.
>> The speed at which mankind has used the Earth's natural resources over the past 20 years, threatening the survival of the human race.
>> More than half of all world cities exceed permissible limits of pollution.
>> For 6.5 billion people living on earth, one billion live in developing countries and the remaining 5.5 billion to countries in developing or underdeveloped countries;
>> 1 in 5 did not attend primary school in the poor countries
>> 14 million children have lost one or both parents due to HIV in a single year;
>> A person commits suicide every 40 seconds.
>> Lack of necessary food is the main cause of mortality worldwide;
>> Earth's population increased by 34 percent over the past 20 years, reaching 6.7 billion
>> Each year, 75,000 people die from natural disasters
>> Three million people die annually from diseases transmitted by water
>> Each year, ten million children die, aged up to 10 years
>> Each year about 11 million children aged below five years die worldwide, of which about 55% due to malnutrition.
And the list goes on forever, unfortunately.

To compare two types of statistics:

Annual costs:
About $ 22 billion spent annually by poor countries in these regions for defense, while half of this amount would allow children in these countries to attend primary school;
>> In a single year, South Africa has spent $ 6 billion on arms, the amount would cover the costs of treating the 5 million Africans infected with HIV for two years.


"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "Albert Einstein

Capitalism has helped people lift themselves out of poverty. Consider India's socialism under Nehru to present day India. By only criticizing existing institutions, you are blind to how much worse the alternatives the salesmen are selling.

reply to post by 547000


Don't start with the same "communism is coming back" routine,because as I said in another thread it's just silly.

And actually there ARE better alternatives to both systems and one of them,which I consider our best chance to fix things in the world is the Resource Based Economy.

Communism's days are gone and capitalism's days are numbered as well.

Originally posted by 547000


Capitalism has helped people lift themselves out of poverty.

edit on 6-11-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

Correction:Capitalism has helped SOME people,while abandoning others,to support and reinforce its interests and agenda through the people that blindly believe in it,that is mostly the rich or those who are enamored with the western promises and dreams of wealth that will never come true for most of humanity.

It's not silly if you actually studied the matter. If people didn't keep repeating the mantra, what real evidence do you have? Is it truly wise to keep ignoring what defectors are saying?

Explain to me how a resource-based economy will be established. Who distributes the resources and how are they allocated? The Marxist theory is everyone's property is seized by the state and distributed. What do we do about the population? How are we supposed to make sure we do not use all the resources and end up killing each other over the remains?

As I see it, USA is an oligarchy at the present. Connections can help you a lot in USA. If you are the elite, the entire juridical system will favor you. The elite will also get government contracts worth a fortune. And, they started with more money then the rest. If you have much money in USA today, you will get richer no matter what you do. It's not even about skill of efficiency. It's about working the system.

Perhaps look into the model with more cooperatives? And also try to get more competition? I think also intellectual laws in USA needs to be addressed. The legal system makes it possible for large companies to overtake small ones with legal harassment.

reply to post by The_Oracle


Explain how that's possible if the people who were poor before can now afford things like fridges and cars. There is a MONUMENTAL increase in population, yet life for the average person comfort has improved substantially.

Originally posted by 547000
It's not silly if you actually studied the matter. If people didn't keep repeating the mantra, what real evidence do you have? Is it truly wise to keep ignoring what defectors are saying?

Explain to me how a resource-based economy will be established. Who distributes the resources and how are they allocated? The Marxist theory is everyone's property is seized by the state and distributed. What do we do about the population? How are we supposed to make sure we do not use all the resources and end up killing each other over the remains?

Considering the well established anti-communist propaganda the west has used to undermine the system,I can reassure you that people will recognize and most probably rebel against anything resembling it.

Concerning an RBE you should watch these videos carefully,and only after you watched it come up with your conclusions,otherwise they're only generalizations.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by The_Oracle


No, people do not know communism nor how ruthlessly and cunningly the Soviets created revolution and communist states during the cold war. People will only realize what communism is when it boots them in the face.

I will watch the videos, but I need more time, so not today.

It's about free market capitalism. The complaint is its not about capitalism Its about the supposed free market capitalism. When the major corporations have all the politicians in there pocket the playing field isn't level.
When big business uses goverment to benefit themselves it isn't free market capitalism, its free market socialism for big business. The outcome is the 99% get the bill and no benefit. People want a level field where they can prosper.

Restoration of fairness and equality when it pertains to capitalism. Have it be about what is in the best interest of the people and not some companies bottom line.

Protection and restoration of jobs.

reply to post by 547000


Get off of your high horse and come back down to reality as this movement does not seek to end The USA. It seeks to end corporate and banking influence and control.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


What is the title of this thread?

An open society is always easy to manipulate if they are demoralized. Demoralized capitalism seems ugly compared to Marxist promises.

reply to post by 547000


The survival of the USA is not predicated nor contingent upon the survival of capitalism.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Restoration of fairness and equality when it pertains to capitalism. Have it be about what is in the best interest of the people and not some companies bottom line.

Protection and restoration of jobs.

Capitalism cannot be fair nor equal,since it thrives on being the exact opposite.Consider it a cancer that needs to exploit to keep spreading until one day it runs out and explodes.It is the very values at its core which gives it its driving force that leads it into a suicidal end.