Occupy Oakland: Death to Capitalism

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by 547000

 

The survival of the USA is not predicated nor contingent upon the survival of capitalism.

What is good about the USA, in your opinion?

reply to post by 547000


Restoration of laws that benefit everyone and not a select few companies.restoration of the "Far and honest marketplace" that this nation was founded upon.

When companies do not do right by the people they need to be ended.

Freedom of speech, assembly and everything that makes this nation great and will be great once again!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


We can all agree on that. But you said capitalism is not necessary. How exactly will you have a fair market place without capitalism? What is good about the USA that you can't get in other countries?

You said freedom. What if I were a non-union worker who wants to sell my services for less that an inflated price? Will I still have the freedom to do so in the future envisioned America?

reply to post by 547000


Every company must meet and adhere to a "Cheques and Balances" system that regulates not only their conduct externally but internally as well. When a company sees record profits and is paying no taxes and tax subsidies that they are getting get gone.

Add a Constitutional Amendment that requires that if every American who can work and is available to work can get a job that affords them a decent living.

Yes you will still be able to offer your services as long as you do not gouge the consumer and are not trying to skirt around the laws currently on the books in order to maximize your profits. Consumer protection before corporate protection.

But what if the unions think its unfair that I'm providing for services for less than them? What if I don't buy into the dogma that I require more money, or what if by undercutting them I do better in business? Are they charging too much, or am I charging too little?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Add a Constitutional Amendment that requires that if every American who can work and is available to work can get a job that affords them a decent living.

How can you possibly have a constitutional gaurantee for a job? How do you determine the wage structure? What do you do if that job is subsequently eliminated or moved?

This is more of the same, enhanced government bereaucracy to enact more nanny-state regulations that can only lead to greater waste and inflation. The government should not be responsible for you earning a living, YOU should be responsible for you earning a living.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


so you want gov to be more involved in business..........hmmm yeah that seems to be working out right now doesnt it.........i mean, with all the politicians being bought out........

You know, concessions for businesses in light of turning a blind eye? How is that a solution......

And you want a constitutional amendment that says you get a good paying job? Are you kidding me?

I guess we will just magically create these jobs so that everyone gets a great paying job hmm?


Sorry id rather be guaranteed NOTHING , then have gov in every aspect of my life dictacting what i do...

What YOU guys are advertising is one set of rules destroyed in favor of YOUR brand of fairness.......

Sorry, ill take neither forms of oppression thank you
(shakes head)

reply to post by 547000


That is when your private company meets up with the union to establish a "fair pricing rate and schedule chart" for that good or service in order to make it competitive. WE do not seek to stifle nor hinder competitiveness. Y'all two could learn alot from one another by just sitting down in a room somewhere.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


But what if you cannot come to a working agreement. Whose side should the state take?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
That is when your private company meets up with the union to establish a "fair pricing rate and schedule chart" for that good or service in order to make it competitive.

How has Davis-Bacon influenced government spending since its inception? Has it inreased or decreased the price of construction? All it has lead to is state mandated inflation.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Lack of Govt in business allowed the 2008 crash to occur and this is undeniable. Lack of and further deregulation is what has put us into this mess.

Fact, when something called the "Market Circuit Breakers" were taken offline in Aug 08 allowed directly the market to collapse. The breakers ordered that if the DJIA was down 10% it would close for 30mins, if down 20% it would close for an hour and if down 30% would close for the rest of the day. If that was allowed to be extended in Aug 08 then the 08 crash may not've ever happened. Put in place after the 1987 crash in order to prevent another.

Regulations demand a fair, honest and level playing field for all If you want to play the game there are rules you must adhere to.

Chinese sheetrock, lead toys, Chinese tires, Chinese solar panels, Chinese made paint all are toxic. If no regulations were in place no product on Earth would be safe.

reply to post by 547000


The side of the consumer as the customer is always right!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by 547000

 

The side of the consumer!

I'm assuming that means the one who sells for less. But then the unions will complain about being undercut by cut-throat capitalism.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Lack of Govt in business allowed the 2008 crash to occur and this is undeniable. Lack of and further deregulation is what has put us into this mess.

really............then how did all these gov officials get bought off hmmm? isnt that the premise of your movement? Open contradiction..........nice......

i notice you failed to address the rest of my post pertaining to guaranteed jobs , and OWS own brand of oppression over the other.......

Have a great sunday

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
That is when your private company meets up with the union to establish a "fair pricing rate and schedule chart" for that good or service in order to make it competitive.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
The side of the consumer as the customer is always right!

Really? Factory A (which is non-union) can make widget X for $10. Factory B (which is union) can make widget X for $15. Consumer will buy which one? Your 'fair pricing rate' is already in effect, it is called the free-market.

Also, your Pollyannish plan does not factor in innovation and improvement to goods or services. How do you deal with the person or company that radically improves a product and is able to offer it for far less money then similar industry providers? Do you force him to raise his price to the other's level or make them drop their price to his new and improved pricing structure? Fabricated and artificially manipulated markets only hurt one person, YOU.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Logic and finances will dictate to go with the $15 one as it's far better made and is safe as it was made by a union who is all about worker protections while on the clock. But if the $10 item was made in the US with all money staying stateside then I'd buy the $10 item.

Depends on where it is made as I'd rather give my money to a company who makes it's product in the US as at least you know that the money made will go back to spur The American economy.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Logic and finances will dictate to go with the $10 one as it's far better made and is safe as it was made by a union who is all about worker protections while on the clock.

Please reread, the $10 widget in my analogy was made by a NON-union factory. Additonally, OSHA has regulations inplace which dictate worker safety standards and must be adhered to under penalty of law making union regulations redundant or uncompetitive.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Most non union factories ignore OSHA anyhow and consistently ignore it. OSHA only applies stateside and no company outside the US has to adhere to their standards. OSHA is powerless when it's up against corporate lobbyists who are buying off elected officials left and right to look the other way. This is a major gripe of OWS an that is to end and delete corporate and banking dollars from being allowed to bankroll a candidate!

The Chinese drywall recall almost got swept under the rug but due to a few threats to both the SEC, CPSC it blew the lid off that right off. There initially wasn't going to be any reporting made.

Remember the drop side infant crib deal? Another that almost got swept under the rug so the myth of "Allow companies to self regulate" is nonsense.

Don't even get me started about the banks and how they destroyed the economy while getting paid to do just that. So don't even try to go there. Does the name Bernie Madoff ring a bell?

Companies need everything they do be subjected to a "fine tooth comb" inspection incrementally and randomly without notice to make sure that they aren't skirting or breaking the law as if a firm can cut say, lunch time breaks in order to increase output for that shift and to maximize profits. Companies have already proven time and time again how corrupt they will become. They want regulations to go the way of the Dodo Bird.

Regulation that is about to celebrate it's 100th Anniversary is the regulation that bans a locked door in a factory, mill, or retail setting as that went online in 1912 after the Triangle #waist Factory Fire in NYC in Mar 1911 whereas a clothing factory went abalze in minutes and due to a locked door that no one there had the key to caused at least 146 deaths and injured more then 70. Many took their chairs and smashed it though the window and many jumped to their deaths and the reason why I bring that up is it is the sole and exclusive reason for that regulation that allowed more then 6,000 to flee the World Trade Center on 9/11 or else the toll would've been as high as 10,000 dead!

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Most non union factories ignore OSHA and consistently ignore it. OSHA only applies stateside and no company outside the US has to adhere to their standards.

Irrelevant. The laws are still in place and whistleblowers are indemnified from retaliation. I could care less about foreign issues. The topic is about Occupy Oaklnd and its mantra of 'Death to Capitalism'. The are not protesting in China, they are protesting in California (among other places).

The Chinese drywall recall almost got swept under the rug but due to a few threats to both the SEC, CPSC it blew the lid off that right off. There initially wasn't going to be any reporting made.

When people stop buying Chinese goods the Chinese will stop exporting them to the United States.

Don't even get me started about the banks and how they destroyed the economy while getting paid to do just that. So don't even try to go there.

Everyone has a hand in what happened to the economy; banks, government, the private citizen living beyond their means, etc. People always try to scapegoat their misfortune, banks are an easy target because they are big, faceless entities. No one makes you get a mortgage, a credit card or a car loan. Nor are you, or should you, be garaunteed such a thing by law.

Companies need everything they do be subjected to a "fine tooth comb" inspection incrementally and randomly without notice to make sure that they aren't skirting or breaking the law as if a firm can cut say, lunch time breaks in order to increase output for that shift and to maximize profits. Companies have already proven time and time again how corrupt they will become.

Irrelevant appeal to emotion. An anonymous phone call can have OSHA inspectors at a facilty to preform such a random inspection. I have seen it happen, and this was at a union establishment which furthers the point that their regulations are redundant. Anyone can try and game the system but all it takes is one pissed off employee to call in their complaint. There are enough laws on the books to protect worker's rights, the uinon's usefullness in this regard is over.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


When your corporate lobbyist owns the Congress person enforcement of said law is complicated as your regulator happens to be in your backpocket means effectively no law can touch you. Ever heard of the phrase "Friends in high places"? This applies to this! Not irrelevant as this is how the skirt the law. Restore clearcut "black and white" to laws with no "grey" areas as companies will time and time again refer to the grey area and not to the law.

The SCUM have been systematically sending all global manufacturing to China to maximize profits as what they pay people for a day's work stateside they can they pay the same amount for 7 times the amount of labour and payout that once a week. Any nation who tries to get its manufacturing base back gets threatened by The SCUM. Take them out and we all can move the jobs lost back stateside.

The recent college grad or HS grad did not have a hand in the economy as they haven;t been given a chance to entre the workforce and there should be laws requiring companies to hire.

OSHA is circumventable it is not funny. When lobbyists compete with entities like OSHA - OSHA will always lose.

Welcome fellow Jerseyian! Jersey City here!