Occupy Oakland: Death to Capitalism

Really a simple question at this point. 'Death to Capitalism' and then what?

Socialism?

Communism?

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Sorry, they lost me with the whole 'global democracy/global regime change' nonsense. I am still for not bailing out banks corporations and corporate wellfare (which I thought was a very worthy cause to protest) but this is a bit too far to be even reasonably considered. It appears that Occupy has been co-opted by a more fringe group, at least in Oakland.

BIG EDIT: Lol It's only a banner. It doesn't represent anyone except the people holding it.

If some people in this country try to end capitalism they better be prepared to give their life for the cause, I'll be on the other side waiting.

Seriously though I can't believe the amount of ignorance there is, Capitalism in no way shape or form says businesses should be bailed out by the gov. This is called corporatism

Capitalism is to Corporatism as Socialism is to Communism............?

Originally posted by mr10k
BIG EDIT: Lol It's only a banner. It doesn't represent anyone except the people holding it.

Riiiight.

If the majority of the people there did not agree with it they can always ask to have it taken down.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Actually, there are tons of conflicting banners in the Occupy protests. They are all united in one common cause though, and I'm positive it isn't calling an end to Capitalism. The average middle-aged American should know that Capitalism helped our country grow and putting an end to it won't solve anything.

About time. Face it, capitalism doesn't work. The sooner you Americans deal with that and start looking out for your fellow humans, the better. You can't just let "the system" fix itself, because it doesn't.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


not gonna lie i thought me and you were on different side of the fence, but with this post i see you are probably one of the very few people i completely agree with.

ETA: the problem with capitalism is it's a system based on greed. what do expect out of capitalism? the point of capitalism is to turn money into a scoreboard. the person with they highest score wins!!!!! Yet in any game that has a winner there are FAAAAAAAAARRRRR more losers. the point is not to make the most money, but to make the biggest contribution to society.

Let 'em hang their signs. Might as well have a sign that says, "We're anti-American! Shun us completely."

Originally posted by mr10k
BIG EDIT: Lol It's only a banner. It doesn't represent anyone except the people holding it.

edit on 2-11-2011 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

The goal is 'change'. Every individual has a different idea of what they want to see changed. Personally I think that our greedy capitolist society will bring about global economic colapse. It's a matter of 'when' not 'if'. A capitolist society must eventually go through a shrink and given the current econnomic climate this will probably result in global economic colapse. It almost has already.

Originally posted by mr10k
Actually, there are tons of conflicting banners....

They are all united in one common cause though

They have 'conflicting' banners yet are united in 'one common cause'. How is that even possible? This is the point I am trying to make. I supported that anti-corporate bailout/wellfare agenda, this I am not even remotely close to supporting.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Really a simple question at this point. 'Death to Capitalism' and then what?

Socialism?

Communism?

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Sorry, they lost me with the whole 'global democracy/global regime change' nonsense. I am still for not bailing out banks corporations and corporate wellfare (which I thought was a very worthy cause to protest) but this is a bit too far to be even reasonably considered. It appears that Occupy has been co-opted by a more fringe group, at least in Oakland.

some talk about " end of capitalism " but it's not really the way things have to be said !
in fact we should say : end of NEO-capitalism or neo-liberalism or corporatism or plutocracy !!
because capitalism is no longer the actual system where incredible GREED has become the norm !
capitalism made a evolution into neo-capitalism since the moment there was financial virtual economy, no longer real economy but a bubble one with financial transactions that have to maximize the profits.
No longer real economy, just SPECULATION with everything ( food, minerals, oil etc etc even human work ) to make as much profit as possible.
No longer the human being is important but the value of things, everything is a object in the hands of the inhuman system : inhuman because only the value of money counts, not the value of human life.
So let us stop talking about the end of capitalism and better talk of the end of NEO-CAPITALISM !!! because the capitalist system is not bad at all, it's the best system so far to produce what is needed for the world ...
neo-capitalism is only to produce what is needed for the wealthy 1 % = $$$$$ greedy $$$$

www.marxists.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
marxistsfr.org...

etc etc ... you will tell me ohlalala marxism ?? .... yeah, but it is just not propaganda, it's university professors studying economics ... and I do not think you will find some interesting lecture in the teapotparty library so .... you see by yourself ....

I don't mean the following comment to sound snarky, truly I don't; I have friends that live in the area and were initially put off by going down there that have since decided that they HAD to go, in spite of them both having a lot professionally to loose by being embroiled in the process and protest, not to mention the time off work.

Still, it occurs to me how ironic it seems -- "death to capitalism"......... okay, so whose going to make the portapotties, truck in the food, maintain the water and power systems, fund and supply hospitals and train professionals to work there, just to name a few 'capitalist' services.

It just seems to me like (at least my perception of) much of the occupy movement is shooting for an extremely improbable outcome. I support them verbally, in that I support the process of freedom of speech and peaceful protest.

I don't believe anyone should be allowed to assemble and occupy that assembly space overnight. Come to the protest, attempt to make your point, know that the movement is now global and therefore important and your ideals are at least being heard............ and then go home, come back tomorrow, give it another go. When people block streets and services, they aren't hurting the big bankers, the rich and powerful at ALL -- they are inconveniencing the regular person trying to wade through to get their job done to make a buck or two to feed and support their families. This is where I believe the movement is going wrong.

Originally posted by mr10k
BIG EDIT: Lol It's only a banner. It doesn't represent anyone except the people holding it.

edit on 2-11-2011 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

The ultimate cop out for everything stupid OWS says and does...
Why does that logic not go both ways?

The banks are the ones killing capitalism in favor of big corporations. Capitalism is for all, not just the rich.

People are losing sight of what this was originally intended for or the media is doing a good enough job of muddying up the water enough that there is no real purpose in mind anymore or it's just a bunch of people angry with the system around them and this is the easiest way to lash back, or the protest is the only show in town and its better than watching tv and going to work everyday.

It could be an odd combination of all of those reasons and more, who knows? The point is however that these protests were originally brought up to expose the corruption on wall street and in our government. This is what has to stop and the tax payers are tired of it. This isnt about rich vs poor or capitalists vs communists or any religion. The corruption and greed need to end and I am beginning to think by any means nessesary isnt a bad idea. The amount of garbage the original message has taken is just a sign to anyone paying attention that they are not going to give up control that easily.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr10k
Actually, there are tons of conflicting banners....

They are all united in one common cause though

They have 'conflicting' banners yet are united in 'one common cause'. How is that even possible? This is the point I am trying to make. I supported that anti-corporate bailout/wellfare agenda, this I am not even remotely close to supporting.

Some want the death of Capitalism, others the death of what they see as Corporatism, and even others believe we live in a Fascist like state. Everyone can agree though, that we are a Corporatocracy, a Kritarchy, and an Empire ruled by those who control the core of business.

Originally posted by mr10k

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by mr10k
Actually, there are tons of conflicting banners....

They are all united in one common cause though

They have 'conflicting' banners yet are united in 'one common cause'. How is that even possible? This is the point I am trying to make. I supported that anti-corporate bailout/wellfare agenda, this I am not even remotely close to supporting.

Some want the death of Capitalism, others the death of what they see as Corporatism, and even others believe we live in a Fascist like state. Everyone can agree though, that we are a Corporatocracy, a Kritarchy, and an Empire ruled by those who control the core of business.

This for truth..
People lose sight of the actual objective, and do not understand what it is unless you learn it from the source. People always focus on the trivial matters instead of seeing the bigger picture, its like a disease that has infected almost everyone, especially those that watch mainstream news.

C'mon, boo hooing over a sign? People see different things, and thus have different views. Whoever is holding the sign, that is what they want, not what everyone wants. Not hard to understand.

The occupy movement wants corporate taxes back where they were, they want corporate money out of politics, capitalism is good, when there is a leash attached, anything can run away on us. They want a better system that doesnt cater to the top of the pyramid, and leaves the scraps out for the rest of us.

Just read up on some of the groups involved in the Wall Street protests - theyre far left socialists aswell, protesting capitalism, globalism......

The Seattle protest in 1999 was another major lefitst gathering that protested against capitalism, globalism etc.

What their alternative? As you suggested: Commumism. Thats what the UN is all about. Look at UNESCO. The current Director-General is Irina Bekova; a leading member in the Bulgarian Communist Party. Shes the one whose heading the UNs "education, science and culture" organization.

No surprise. the Bay area is the most far left, humanistic, capitalist hating demographic in the United States. This despite the fact that they benefit from a free democratic capitalistic society.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Capitalism is killing our planet and we do need something different what that is i dont know...

Anyone know what's going on with the strike in Oakland today? I'm not seeing any coverage anywhere. How many ppl participated? Any more police corruption, etc? Anyone with answers would help.

Fine, I'll answer myself since I found some stuff online
CBS News on Strike
I wish I knew how to quote on ATS, but heres an excerpt:
"The staffs at two Oakland elementary schools and a small high school had decided to close their campuses for the day as of Tuesday afternoon, Oakland Education Association Secretary Steve Neat said. At least 182 school district employees, the vast majority classroom teachers, had asked to be replaced with substitutes on Wednesday, Neat said."

Business Insider on Strike
Rumors ripped over Twitter that the strike had shut down the Port of Oakland, the nation's fifth largest port that handled more than 2.3 million containers last year, but those reports appear to be over-blown.
Michael Moore is there, theres also some cool pictures and info, even tweets haha.

Click these links!
I'd make my own post devoted to the strike, but a mod already shut down a post of mine about it and directed me here. Not sure why cause I didnt see anyone say anything about strikes