I'll Make You A Believer

Originally posted by 1questioner
reply to post by ArMaP

 

No. In the 16th Century there were still some people who maintained the Earth was flat just like those today who maintain we have not have been visited by extraterrestrial intelligences. If someone chooses to become defensive because of that comparison, that's their problem.

There's a flat earth society today, not sure I see your point. It wasn't an accepted fact that the earth was flat in the 16 century, I think it was Aristophones that had kind of fairly much nailed that a long time before. So, some people for whom education in such subjects were a luxury they couldn't afford may have been aware of comments such as 'the four corners of the world' and took them literally, or saw a map in two dimensions and believed that meant the earth was flat (this is conjecture, there is actually no proof that this was a common assumption).

We today have fringe groups who in spite of all the evidence continue to believe the earth is flat although they have no proof to show this is the case.... kind of turns your arguement on its head, doesn't it?

Fringe groups may believe in their belief despite a total lack of evidence.

I'll Make You A Believer"

No, you won't because those who refuse to believe are not able to move past their programmed belief systems...much like hypnosis, the belief overrides the reality.
So weather it be ingorance, lack of investigative research, ego or fear some people just will never believe.
But nice try.

No need to convince me...the evidence is way beyond any reasonable doubt.

Good Vid

reply to post by wasco2


Oh ok thanks just odd how it can skip twice then explode not saying its impossible that its ours but still looks pretty cool

Originally posted by Imtor
The Belgian triangle UFO is proven a hoax afair and I can agree considering all triangle formation lights have no shape between and are in larger distances to each other.

The Secret access UFO documentary had Rendlesham, Phoenix lights were the former governer admitted he saw an unidentified aircraft, strange you didnt include more credible cases

This is not true.

The Belgian Triangle PHOTO might be a hoax, but the incident is not. it is well documented. Don't spread lies.

-rrr

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


I have no reason trying to convince any idiot about what i believe in here ever again.

But Ufos i have seen. And what i can say from my experience is that what ever is in these matte metallic grey floating devices that seem to contradict every natural law, is something we better avoid.

I don't think its possible to go down that road without going mad.

We have soo much else on this earth that needs focus and seriousness.The level of energy you have used to make this post shows you could do much in that area. Because it was a good post

We all know that if Ufos where to be official the world would never be the same again. You see other people and how they react to tsunamies or terrorist attacks. Or when you have been waiting for 15 minutes for the light rail and understand its not coming and the 18 other just wait on.

These people would have problem bevause what is then religion? What is then God? What is then Jesus? Why didnt he mention them. Being the Gods son and having the ability to know apparently everything?

Go out and look for them. See it like you would with Auroras or meteor showers. Just some lights that make us wonder and nothing more.

But isnt it fun that it might be something more? What if theres funny looking aliens. Maybe they use our planet to teach their kids to drive? Maybe Earth is their place of vacation.

If you ever seen a japanese in Norway you would know that people don't have problems with distance if the destination is great.

Or maybe they like to hunt humans. Who knows. But there is nothing positive about this in the end

My footage from 06

Original Clip

Stabilized and zoomed

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

I know seasoned ufologists will attempt to debunk some of the footage. That's okay, as long as you can provide evidence to the contrary. I'm also open minded, and I do not know everything. Thanks.

You've not beaten the sceptics with this thread and I'll tell you why.

It's because the onus of proof is on the claimant, you are the claimant and it's down to you to prove that what we see in these videos is real and related to aliens, it's not down to the opposers of ''your claim'' to prove otherwise.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0



Really impressive video! Great job V, and thanks for sharing!

Oh, I believe that there is a UFO phenomenon. There are definitely odd things flying around in the sky, sometimes interacting with people, sometimes being photographed.

I just don't believe anyone who says they know for sure that they have to do with "aliens," from other planets or aspects of space/time, or supernatural realms as detailed in the world's religious literature. I've never seen or heard anyone who has been able to connect the dots between UFOs and anything like that.

Expert Testimony -- Fine for descriptions, but I'll give the average guy just as much credit for accurately describing something. However, if they want to give explanations, then even the experts better pony up with some hard evidence, just like everybody else.

Photographs and Videos -- They will never be enough to prove anything by themselves. Photographs have been faked as long as they've been in around. But that doesn't even matter. Even if the photos and videos are crystal clear or even "real." There's just not going to be enough information in them to prove anything extraordinary.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


good job v1rtu0s0. S+F for effort, this looks pretty professional to me. and S+F because i agree: it only takes one. it baffles me that there are still people who think that in an infinite universe we are the only intelligent life anywhere. keep up the good work. i think one day soon nobody will need your videos anymore however peace.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

I know seasoned ufologists will attempt to debunk some of the footage. That's okay, as long as you can provide evidence to the contrary. I'm also open minded, and I do not know everything. Thanks.

You've not beaten the sceptics with this thread and I'll tell you why.

It's because the onus of proof is on the claimant, you are the claimant and it's down to you to prove that what we see in these videos is real and related to aliens, it's not down to the opposers of ''your claim'' to prove otherwise.

A wise man will be able to tell the Schlitz from the Shinola and take credible information at face value. They will see the mountain of evidence and infer certain facts from the existence of untampered with photos and expert eyewitness testimony given under oath.

If someone tells you your house is on fire are you a skeptic until you see for yourself? I will bet you are a believer - without any proof at all then.

The onus of proof is on the individual to believe and understand what is the truth. Choose to be ahead of the curve and informed or remain ignorant and in the dark clinging to what other people who have not experienced the phenomena for themselves - have told you is true? There is really just the two choices.

Great vid..I loved it all the way through..some interesting clips!

Now I'll probably get slaughtered for this but a clip on yt due my interest so much i had to register a post...search for ufo triangle and strange lights....posted on 30/10...would love to hear everyones thoughts

apologies again for partial hijack...but did love the vid!

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


The only thing that bothers me about older photographs is the UFOs in them look primitive. They look like what folks at the time thought looked futuristic. I don't believe in life on other planets yet, or UFO. If I ever see one I will most likely change my mind though. I do believe in King Arthur. I would like to believe we've been visited by Aliens.

reply to post by BLKMJK


not really, what he's saying is that even after columbus discovered the new world, there were people who stated that he was faking it and that he didn't do it and they maintained that the world was still flat...

Yes, today it would be completely foolis h to believe that the earth is still flat but in the sixteenth century it was commonly accepted that the earth was flat.

Just as today even though many have witnessed ufos and aliens people still beny that aliens exist. That is the illustration that he was making and it IS valid.

Jaden

Two thumbs up, excellent work - I like how you ask for criticism because when you know what all of the arguments are, it helps your own research into making your case even stronger - or even different if that is where it leads to. I like your open mindedness to all sides as well. Good job!

reply to post by greyer

Thank you for the knowledge. Bob hasn't sparked much interest for me, never had anything against him but I agree with that old school disinformation feel. It shows how wild this disinformation game really is with these claims. However space colonization in today's world would be a secret to society I'm thinking.

I'm not sure why space colonisation would be a secret if we take a straightforward, rational approach to interpreting the idea. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, it just means I can't see a reasonable explanation for *why* it might have.

As for Dean, he served in the 60s and who knows what he was doing in the years before his arrival on the UFO scene? Guys like Kevin Randle have done due diligence and shown he's a steady supplier of false claims and fake documents.

It's a big question as to why he's a conman? The X-Cons have lost a fortune in the past 2-3 years, but I don't know what they (PRG) were paying speakers. Likewise I don't know how much, if anything, Project Camelot pay their guests. Not knowing these details makes it difficult to suggest financial incentive. Attention is a definite factor and maybe he likes playing an audience?

The parlour hucksters of the late 19th and early 20th Century made a little money, but guys like Houdini argued that some of them benefited more from perks like paid travel, hotels and the gifts of patrons. Dean could be in this category.

*If* there really are paid disinfo guys in the field, Dean would be a strong suspect imho. Where I tend to doubt that he's a paid disinfo person is in the scatterbrain incoherence of his stories. I think it more likely that he's just a huckster waiting for the opportunity for good score. In simple terms, he's probably a modern day snake-oil salesman.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0

Sometimes you have to seperate the truth from fiction. He very well may fabricate alot of his stories, but if he was involved in the 1960 NATO operations and witnessed this evidence, it doesn't matter.

He's fabricated all the evidence he provided to show that he was involved with SHAPE. Kevin Randle is a dedicated researcher and not one to dismiss claims out of hand. He's a rare thing in ufology by being an 'honest researcher' and he couldn't find anything to support Dean's claims.

Read his post from 2005 - Command Sergeant Major (CSM) Robert O. Dean. You'll find it starts about 1/3 down the page.

He was fair enough to let Michael Salla post a rebuttal a couple of weeks later - A Reply to Dr. Kevin Randle's Critique of Exopolitics.

I am an extremely hard nut to crack. I want to believe , but can't find the evidence, so for now
I am a hard-line skeptic.

I think that's only because of your own prejudices, not because there really is a lack of evidence. A debunker will go to any means to explain away something, even if their ideas are ludicrous.

Tell you what - go look up the 1976 Tehran case, and tell me what sort of additional evidence you require. Per the wiki (although there are some excellent break-downs of this case elsewhere):

longside the report there was a form from the DIA which assessed the quality of the report. The form indicated in checked boxes that the content was of high value, that the report was confirmed by other sources, and that the utility of the information was potentially useful to them. The form from the DIA also stated the following:

"An outstanding report. This case is a classic which meets all the criteria necessary for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon:

a) The object was seen by multiple witnesses from different locations (i.e., Shamiran, Mehrabad, and the dry lake bed) and viewpoints (both airborne and from the ground).

b) The credibility of many of the witnesses was high (an Air Force general, qualified aircrews, and experienced tower operators).

c) Visual sightings were confirmed by radar.

d) Similar electromagnetic effects (EME) were reported by three separate aircraft.

e) There were physiological effects on some crew members (i.e., loss of night vision due to the brightness of the object).

f) An inordinate amount of maneuverability was displayed by the UFOs."

If you need more than that, I don't know what to tell you. Nothing short of personally shaking an ETs hand will satisfy you. One debunker who wrote a book laughingly said the Tehran case was mistaken identity (they were confused by Jupiter), and two jet failures at the same time. He was serious. Are you that level of "skeptic?"

Sometimes you have to logically take what evidence is provided, and come up with that difficult to accept conclusion. Some people can just never get past that, unfortunately.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


In the first minutes you start with clearly identifiable balloons and twice show known RC toys. Just after one minute another video of balloons.

You won't find video's of the most credible cases and there are only maybe one or two credible cases worth messing with per decade. Serious research is tedious at best since real cases are so rare in fact.

I only watched the first minute and a half because you started out with the balloons and RC craft. Good idea, bad choice of what to include. Sorry.

reply to post by Blaine91555


If you can provide feedback to prove this theory, that would be great.

By the way, I can re-cut the video with any footage you guys disprove, but so far all I see are theories, besides Springers comment which seems to debunk the rocket footage.


As I said, you can't judge a book by it's cover, or in this case only watching 2 minutes of it.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Good idea, bad choice of what to include. Sorry.

So... your input of a good one to include?

I have dibs on the Tallahasse UFO Critter birth