I'll Make You A Believer

Originally posted by newcovenant
I think you have to prove it to your own satisfaction regardless of what other people present as evidence.

I think I understand what you mean, but I disagree.

Although everybody has to "prove it to their own satisfaction" about anything, they can only really do it if they have more than their own senses telling him/her what that anything is. If someone points to you a new machine that you never knew existed (a machine that makes holes to put in doughnuts, for example), do you accept it as it is presented or do you ask for more information about it to understand it and "prove it to your own satisfaction"? Me, I would ask for more information, and that's why I think the onus of the proof is on the person making the statement ("it's a machine to make holes to put in doughnuts"), they need to provide the information other people need to accept it as true.

Understanding what is the truth is a completely different thing, I'm sure that all of us have had in their life occasions in which we couldn't understand what the truth was or even understand it as the truth. Truth exists regardless of our opinions or of our understanding. Truth doesn't need us.

You have to be comfortable with what you have arrived at no matter how you get there.

That's true.

You may get there without an iota of tangible evidence.

Then you shouldn't be comfortable with it, because if you accepted it without evidence then it means that you had some predisposition to accept that in the beginning, so you may have made a biased decision.

Courts have permitted people to walk free and sentenced others to die based on less substantial proof than what we have available in the UFO debate.

The fact that some people are incompetent and that the judicial system is terribly flawed is not an excuse. Evidence is evidence, and if we are really interested in the truth (and not in sending someone to jail or to death because we think we will be safer or the victims will feel revenged) we should always look for more and better evidence and never consider a case "closed".

No...I see the photos and I BELIEVE people, such as astronauts, pilots and aviators, police and people who know more than the average person and have intimate and extraordinary familiarity with the subject and low inclination to lie.

First of all, I doubt anyone has any "intimate and extraordinary familiarity with the subject" of UFOs and/or Aliens, unless they are the ones piloting the UFOs.

And how can you assess their "inclination to lie"? Do you know them, have you studied them? Or are you accepting what they say because it goes in the same direction as your own ideas?

Also, astronauts, pilots and aviators, police and people who know more than the average person are not immune to being wrong or seeing things in a way that make them misinterpret the things they see. The fact that someone has a specific understanding of some event and that understanding is not true doesn't mean that the person is lying, we can never know if what other people see is exactly the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

reply to post by Pimander


Cool, so he was real!!
Just where is the king buried?
As I would love to go to his gravesite.
mmmhm, so they just lost the body huh?
Sure.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


Most of what you show was debunked by "Fact or Fiction". Tonight on the Ghost Hunters special, many of your video clips were shown as well as how they were duplicated.

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

Have you heard of King Arthur And The Knights Of The Round Table? The Round Table was real, here is a photo of it:-

www.vrwinchester.co.uk...


King Arthur was just fiction. What you have here are photo's of some kind of aerial phenonemon but the aliens are as real as KIng Arthur.

Please tell me you're not THAT ignorant. I give you the Drake Equation. Pretty much PROOF that extraterrestrial life exists. Not saying for a fact we'll ever meet them, but they DO exist. The odds of it are so astronomically high that they DO exists.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0
Great job on the video!

Some of the material was new to me and all of it was presented very well.

You didn't make a believer out of me because I already was.

I don't know if it's even worth a person comming forward with real evidence. It most certainly would be mixed in with all the garbage that already pollutes the Internet, and labeled a fake by some armchair expert. It's a crime that people create fake images and make up BS stories, because it prevents us from getting a clear understanding of what's really going on. I believe that reality is stranger than fiction and the more questions you have answered the more questions you have.

reply to post by ArMaP


I think the part where we disagree is that I feel some testimony is evidential and enough of it, amassed from credible witnesses constitutes de-facto proof. I also think I can tell when someone is lying and although I am sure mistakes have been made in every instance this is not so. The witness knew exactly what they were seeing and it was beyond earthling capability. Some of this has also been picked up by radar and there is some small amount of physical evidence documented. To believe there is not ET life in the face of all this (not to mention the Drake equation above) is to me the more skeptical and doubtful position and the greater leap of faith.

reply to post by ArMaP

First of all, I doubt anyone has any "intimate and extraordinary familiarity with the subject" of UFOs and/or Aliens, unless they are the ones piloting the UFOs.

I have had "intimate and extraordinary familiarity with the subject" of UFOs and/or Aliens. Saw an "old school" flying saucer slowly hovering about 100 ft above the ground and almost came right over top of me. There is more to the story but I'm not going to get into that right now. It's really irrelevant whether you believe me or not. I know what I know, and you're going to believe what you're going to believe and that's the way it is.

I do think, perhaps, that you might be guilty of over analyzing things. Some witnesses have too much to lose by comming forward with evidence. Others risk tarnishing prestigious careers and reputations by offering their personal accounts of the subject matter. Some of us DO know that something is going on, it's just that many people don't believe us. Your loss I suppose.

reply to post by Darkmask


can i ask what stage are you at?

i.e. do you believe ufo's are real
i.e. do you believe aliens have arrived
i.e. do you believe a treaty exists between USA & aliens

reply to post by piles
Sure, why not.

I do believe that ETs are here, and have been for a very long time. I do believe that powerful people have had official communications with them but to what extent and frequency of occurrence, I can only speculate.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Interesting notion. It is odd that good, solid UFO encounters seem to have dropped to almost zero lately. It may have more to do with a change in the way they are (or aren't) being reported, though.

In this era we have more UFO hunters and cameras out there than in any past era, and yet we produce less worth while cases to study. That would indicate fewer visitors Any good abduction cases lately to examine?

What do you think about the idea that we all might be part of what might loosely be understood as a kind of "river of reality," where we all get together and define reality along a certain flowing path? Say sometimes it flows deeper and stronger in one riverbed and won't allow much variation, compared to say a broader, flatter river, where various unusual realities can sneak in around the edges.

I have a theory on all that, but not ready to put in a thread just yet. "reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

Maybe the "aliens" exist on the farther outlying fringes of our reality, and maybe your plasma critters are a little closer to the mainstream. Of course, neither of them are quite real enough at the moment to do things like leave physical traces after they've been encountered then vanish. But the critters, which can be more easily explained away as atmospheric electrical phenomena, are still showing up here and there (zooming in and out of tornadoes and volcanoes, for instance) but not being reported with as much enthusiasm as a nuts-and-bolts type flying saucer.

Well there is a lot more trace effects that fit critters They are seen near sources of electrical energy to be sure, perhaps 'feeding'. Their presence alone may be what makes bells and whistle go off at missile sites causing shutdowns Unknown atmospheric electrical phenomena or plasma lifeforms that are curious enough to play tag with our airplanes as early as WWII... glowing, translucent, blurry, shape shifting like amoebas, flitting about the skies aimlessly like moths to a flame, able to change directions at high speed without effects of inertia, leaving trace burns and no hard evidence

A reality river? Or maybe a reality "cloud" that can either be sharply defined like a thunderhead or fuzzy like fog? Literally the farther out you get from the center, the less real things become.

Back in ancient times there were miracles, magic was common, monks levitated (including Catholic Saints) Then we were told that magic was evil... then we were told it was all BS... now today Quantum physics is finding that thought does influence matter afterall... What will we know tomorrow?

Anyway, I've been pondering the notion of manipulating reality fields or constructs as useful ways to do things like travel from one apparent time to another. Maybe it's connected in some way. Don't know. I don't know how one would go about measuring something like the relative density or temperature of reality.

I have crossed over time lines... but I don't know how to do it at will yet. The only reason we are aware of it at all is because a part of us, the energy, the life force, whatever you wish to call it, exists outside of time. Science tells us energy cannot be destroyed... so in a sense science admits part of us survives death From a certain point of view

Prove it? Not even going to waste my time trying...

reply to post by Darkmask


it depends where you are, if your in america then there living in your nation in top secret bases, there not flying the earth (unless requested by america to do so) they have never met any other government than America, and America have denied to every nation that they have aliens amongst them...

the UFO you would have seen if it was a UFO would have been flown by America..

are you at a point where by you can theorize why united states would fly ufo's all over the planet?

btw united states have never declared there ufo's to any nation, and have always pointed the finger to other goverments that they must be flown by aliens and that america have tried very hard to convince the world that they are flown by aliens and not by america..

while i know already, it really does get you in trouble with them, especially if your in america, so i won't go on

Originally posted by Darkmask
I don't know if it's even worth a person coming forward with real evidence.

That depends...

If you have a good story to tell, there are those willing to listen. But on places like ATS, the majority will immediately say "Picture or it didn't happen"

When you pull out a picture they will shout "Fake" or "Photoshop" before they even take a close look at it. I know because I did a test on that and that got me a 60 day post ban for baiting trolls

If you have a photo or video and it is blurry or fuzzy its not good enough, even though the blur effect might be because its a plasma critter or a force field of some kind around the craft as part of its propulsion system, the same way we are now using plasma charged skins on our stealth aircraft.

So you cannot win...

But there are those that will listen. They are the silent watchers that star your posts but rarely speak. I would like to here your story... even if only via U2U

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


Good video! I like the way you put this together. I knew you would catch some flack for the disclosure project segments as well as some the video clips, but I enjoyed it..thanks again

Most of you who post UFO videos on here are making fools of your selves and the UFO
community! I'm not directing this at the op, just in general.

I am a hard line skeptic, you have to be or you would be wiped out by fakery.
I believe in the possibility of ET Craft, I do not yet believe in the existence of
ET craft.
...

Would it not be better to spend time researching for the real truth, or discussing really good older reports rather than the continuous barrage of utter junk that is supposed to pass as UFO cases.

Come on we as a community can do better than this.

End Of Rant

I believe you are right about focusing on older, more solid cases. Although, there are more recent cases with merit as well, such as in Phoenix, and more recently, in Texas.

Of course, I think you, like many other "hard line skeptics" (i.e. debunkers), purposely ignore those older cases. You yourself mangled the facts of the Roswell case in your first lengthy post about why you don't believe in UFOs. Goes to show how much research you sort of folks really put into the "truth." You ignore the solid cases, and you enjoy jumping all over ridiculous cases, because it makes you look good, I guess. Yes.. obvious balloons are obvious. Why even bother wasting your time on those posts? Oh yes.. because it bolsters your "aliens are all fake!" agenda.

When an air born object appears then disappears and reappears again . In multiple locations all over the globe , what is the skeptics first reply when a person tells of it . Oh your just seeing things , well hell yeah your seeing things . A person just wants to know what they are , if others don,t want to know that is their prerogative .

Does the scientific community really know why and what they are ? I say no they do not . Does it make it invalid . No it does not , they just have no interest in finding out . So it is left up to those that saw it happen to deduce what it could be since their hands are tied . They become the scientist that will investigate it and offer up possible answers to that investigation .

I think and believe that since we cannot achieve the same effect as what is going on in the skies and an unknown object can . They are in fear of it to some aspect because they are less advanced than the unknown objects . When they military cannot get close enough to capture one for investigation since the same objects can out maneuver anything we humans have at our disposal .

A cause for serious concern about them is warranted from what ever country has it happen in their borders . If they are a threat , who knows . Have we provoked a retaliation of sorts at some time or other . Some say the sightings have dropped off , visual sightings perhaps but when the object can appear and disappear . They can still be there , The light spectrum that us everyday people can see in is what it is .

We cannot see in IR unless it is with the aid of a device to do so . That to has limited capabilities , seeing the magnetic fields we cannot do , but in the animal world it has been proven that they navigate by those same magnetic fields . If we could visually see in that field of view , would we see more than we do with what we have now ? Perhaps . Might be in for a shocking revelation there .

Great video! It looks like you did your research! They are out there, it's just a matter of time before the truth is revealed to EVERYONE.

reply to post by ArMaP



ATS motto is deny ignorance.

This is in the preamble to this forum...

Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of the existence of extraterrestrials

I wonder why this is?
Why doesn't ATS label everything here a hoax?

How can it be untrue and yet not be outed as a hoax?

So there is the thing...

We have old cave and wall drawings with weird figures that have helmets, halos, circles round their heads... and we say oh look its aliens, but how many space suit aliens do we see today.

We have pictures of lights and dark things and we say oh look at the aliens...How many pictures of a close up alien craft do we have, or heaven forbid, how many alien crafts are physically here for us to say, oh look that is a REAL alien ship.

We have eyewitnesses that say all kinds of things, but we have nothing to show physically that anything has been done outside of our technology.

So how long does it take you guys to realize you are chasing bigfoot, fairies, angels, demons, leprechauns, garden gnome etc.... and call them aliens... same amount of proof, people.

Originally posted by PlanetaryDuality
Great video! It looks like you did your research!

They are out there, it's just a matter of time before the truth is revealed to EVERYONE.

It seems funny that if we just take the last 15 years we go from a few with a camera at hand to just about EVERYONE on the plant with a camera at hand and instant networking with the WHOLE world, and still our proof is not anymore than what we have had for the last 2000 plus years... hmmm makes one think doesn't it?

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

Have you heard of King Arthur And The Knights Of The Round Table? The Round Table was real, here is a photo of it:-

www.vrwinchester.co.uk...


King Arthur was just fiction. What you have here are photo's of some kind of aerial phenonemon but the aliens are as real as KIng Arthur.

Please elaborate. That video is 15 minutes long. I even said it only takes 1. So if you can give me a detailed analysis of each one and why it's fake, then by all means...

Tell me when and where an Alien has come to Earth and been greeted by the human race. There is no evidence because it has never happened. Aliens are as much fiction as Arthur Pendragon.

Gary Wilcox (New York) April 24th 1964 (stellar character) that same day Lonnie Zamora (stellar character) spotted what seems to be the same craft. Both saw an oval craft with 2 small white uniformed beings. Gary Wilcox was told by them that they were from mars. A recording is available on the internet. They live underground and Nasa will not tell us. I can't say for sure but there is evidence enough to drive a truck through sort of speak. But of course to a died in the wool skeptic. If a hammer hits em on the head they will not believe it is a hammer There is a lot of evidence that a civilization lives under ground. Please read Ernest Norman's acount "The Truth About Mars".

But again, a being did come down it seems and did talk to a person named Gary Wilcox.
But for a lot of people they will did to be a news cast event and I don't think that is martians approach right now. I think it is pick and choose and duck and dive I don't know for sure but I think from all the mars artifacts photos I've seen, there certainly is something mighty strange going on on mars and underground as well. Of course I don't think they live above ground. I think they lost their atmosphere probably thousands of years ago. Because of things like the Brookings Report. Nasa doesn't want to come out something that will change the world. Even though I think certain high up nasa graphic artists are leaking photos out very, very, very slowly over a period of decades. And I do mean slowly !!!! I'll bet most Nasa graphic artists don't have a clue. They know how to rule the roost with a strong hand nasa does. And they will deny, deny and deny then leak, leak and leak with a slowness that a turtle would envy!