Exposing the evils of Wicca Witchcraft!

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Not once in your last post did you mention people going to heaven for being good people, even people who are christian , you just quote stuff what said believe in jesus and you goto heaven, don't believe in me and you to to the abyss.
Sounds silly to me.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

You asked what defines a good witch and I replied that its the same what defines any good person, we are all the same no matter what Religion you follow.
We can only try to be more good than not eh?

If a wicca leads a good life isnt that enough? if they help people everyday?

You cant define someone being bad by what Religion they follow, Satan would be sure angry if a good witch only tried to do good and God would be happy that a person has done good no matter what.

You are right to some degree. I know alot of really good people who do alot of great things for others but don't believe in Christ. Whether or not such people will go to heaven or hell is not for me to say.

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[e](that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[f] 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

All I can do is judge the practice, not the person. If the practice is not in accords with God then imo there is a problem with such practice.

From what I've read about your God he seems to be a nice guy. And that leads me to believe that you and the OP are going to get a hiding from dad when you get home

And what's that suppose to mean?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

I don't know if Wiccans can call up the dead, but I do know that they cast spells. If there is no danger in such practices then why is God against it?

God didn't write the bible, so what makes you think he is against it?

Considering the number of times witchcraft/sorcery/wizardry etc etc actually shows up in the bible..... and in each case it gives no explanation of why "God" hates such things.... I would say it was simply fear of the unknown in said examples.

Jesus said nothing of the sort, and considering "christians" are supposed to follow him... Judging these people for their beliefs is very "unchristian"

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I think people are confused about magick and sorcery. Neither of which Jesus practiced.

Maybe not, but if the NT is true, Jesus did practice Necromancy. (Raising the Dead)

More on Necromancy

Even Witches do not delve into this Ancient and Forbidden Art.

If you read that scripture as it says...Jesus was called to come and see Lazarus but put it off and Lazarus died. When he got there to the tomb that Lazarus was in, the sisters of Lazarus were upset. This is the first time the Bible records the emotions of Jesus so well, Jesus wept. Lazarus was His friend and Jesus was weeping over the fact that those people who knew Him as friends had not yet believed who He was and what He came to do. When He asked the sisters if they believed in the resurrection, they said yes, in the end of time when all will be raised. Jesus answered her and said, "I am the resurrection and the life, he that believes in me, even thou he dies, he shall live", at that point He called to the tomb, "Lazarus, come forth" and the Bible then records that Lazarus came out of the tomb bound hand and foot.

Jesus is the resurrection and the life. He was establishing here that He is not only Lord over the living and the dead, but at His word, the dead will come to life. There was no ritual or rite performed here, it was done simply at His command. Life came back into Lazarus and he walked out of the tomb.

Even though this was done in a very natural setting, it also applies spiritually. He is the resurrection and the life because He has called us from the spiritual death. When we, as Christians who have listened and responded to His call, we have come out of that spiritual tomb still bound to those things of the former death we were in. After that, Jesus said "Unbind him and let him loose".

That is not necromancy, that is Jesus being Lord of the living and the dead.

Necromancy is a claimed form of magic in which the practitioner seeks to summon the spirit of a deceased person, either as an apparition or ghost, or to raise them bodily, for the purpose of divination.

He did not seek to raise Lazarus for the purpose of divination, it was not accomplished through rites or rituals. He spoke life into Lazarus because Jesus IS the resurrection and the life, both naturally and spiritually.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

You asked what defines a good witch and I replied that its the same what defines any good person, we are all the same no matter what Religion you follow.
We can only try to be more good than not eh?

If a wicca leads a good life isnt that enough? if they help people everyday?

You cant define someone being bad by what Religion they follow, Satan would be sure angry if a good witch only tried to do good and God would be happy that a person has done good no matter what.

You are right to some degree. I know alot of really good people who do alot of great things for others but don't believe in Christ. Whether or not such people will go to heaven or hell is not for me to say.

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[e](that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[f] 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

All I can do is judge the practice, not the person. If the practice is not in accords with God then imo there is a problem with such practice.

From what I've read about your God he seems to be a nice guy. And that leads me to believe that you and the OP are going to get a hiding from dad when you get home

And what's that suppose to mean?

Sigh. A belt across the butt, a clip around the ears, whoopin' for being nasty children.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So if I do this then I can go and eat my children or murder my parents right?
The bible says all I have to do is confess that Lord Jesus is my lord and savoir!
Wow! Why didn't I think of that?
You mean to tell me I have worked so hard to live a good life and that's all I had to do?!?!?!
Maybe I DO need to rethink my religion...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Not once in your last post did you mention people going to heaven for being good people, even people who are christian , you just quote stuff what said believe in jesus and you goto heaven, don't believe in me and you to to the abyss.
Sounds silly to me.

What's so hard about obeying? You obey the police don't you? You'll get it a ticket if you run a red light won't you? Why is that? Probably so you don't kill anyone in your foolishness. But what if you run a red light when there are clearly no cars around, then what? You'll still get a ticket because that is the law whether you like it or not.

If you being a man can obey this simple traffic law to avoid going to jail, then why can't you believe a simple command from God which states:

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John

I mean really, what's so hard about that? He's not asking you to do anything other that.

reply to post by Akragon

I agree star for you,
This post has really put me of Christianity
It seems from the posts I have read here that to get into heaven all you have to do is to accept jesus into your life and thats it.
Everyone else goes to Hell because they don't follow Christ even if they are a good person.
Not slagging off all christians because I have met nice one's who talk sense in my thread.
Would God really want us to follow a very old outdated book or would he want us to explore all different things to help human's understand him?
We have a spirit which wants to understand everything in this universe and maybe God put it there so we can get to know him better.
Seems to me the OP wants the Christianity of the 1600's all Fire and brimstone and not the Christianity of Love, tolerance and understanding.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Akragon

 

THE BIBLE GOSPELS The most "authoritative" accounts of a historical Jesus come from the four canonical Gospels of the Bible. Note that these Gospels did not come into the Bible as original and authoritative from the authors themselves, but rather from the influence of early church fathers, especially the most influential of them all: Irenaeus of Lyon who lived in the middle of the second century. Many heretical gospels existed by that time, but Irenaeus considered only some of them for mystical reasons. He claimed only four in number; according to Romer, "like the four zones of the world, the four winds, the four divisions of man's estate, and the four forms of the first living creatures-- the lion of Mark, the calf of Luke, the man of Matthew, the eagle of John (see Against the Heresies). The four gospels then became Church cannon for the orthodox faith. Most of the other claimed gospel writings were burned, destroyed, or lost."

Elaine Pagels writes: "Although the gospels of the New Testament-- like those discovered at Nag Hammadi-- are attributed to Jesus' followers, no one knows who actually wrote any of them." [Pagels, 1995]

source

I have a list too...
Aren't there many historians who should have mentioned Jesus, but didn't?

In the time of Jesus, most people were illiterate. Of Jesus' followers, I would say only Paul would have been educated, being as Paul was a Roman. The Romans controlled the Hebrew lands and people in those days, and ruled with an iron hand. This is why I always say Romans wrote the New Testament, simply because the rest of Jesus' men could not read or write. Now Jesus surely knew how to read and write, for he was educated in several different disciplines that would require you know this. Why didn't Jesus keep a journal? Or a Diary?

edit on 10/31/11 by autowrench because: To add content

I don't see what your point is?

And i don't know why Jesus didn't write anything...

Are you trying to prove he didn't actually exist? Because even if that is true, whoever wrote the lessons that said non-existant person taught remain true... even to this day

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I don't know if Wiccans can call up the dead, but I do know that they cast spells. If there is no danger in such practices then why is God against it?

God didn't write the bible, so what makes you think he is against it?

Considering the number of times witchcraft/sorcery/wizardry etc etc actually shows up in the bible..... and in each case it gives no explanation of why "God" hates such things.... I would say it was simply fear of the unknown in said examples.

Jesus said nothing of the sort, and considering "christians" are supposed to follow him... Judging these people for their beliefs is very "unchristian"

So in other words your saying it's false? Yes or No? And show me one book on earth that has not been written by men. No matter what belief a person follows, those beliefs most likely came from the writings of other men also so that proves nothings. The question is was it really inspired by God?

reply to post by boymonkey74

Everyone else goes to Hell because they don't follow Christ even if they are a good person.

Hell doesn't exist my friend... according to the bible...

This "hell" you speak of was more or less a garbage dump just outside of Jerusalam....

A word often used in scripture in reference to hell is Gehenna. Gehennas' true meaning has been forgotten by the passage of time. Gehenna was a well-known location in the time of Christ. Contrary to popular belief, Gehenna was not a place of other worldly fiery torment. Gehenna was a location just outside of Jerusalem.

Gehenna was a garbage dump. Used by Jews of the time to get rid of, or destroy things. Gehenna was a place to cast ones garbage, dead and diseased bodies, the bodies of criminals, and other refuse. In order to ensure complete and utter destruction, the Jews kept the fires of Gehenna always burning. Often fueling the fires with sulfur. Gehenna was a large valley often resembling, because of its size, a “burning lake of fire”. Many things aside from garbage were thrown into Gehenna. Often, the bodies of diseased dead people were thrown into Gehenna to ensure the diseases utter destruction and removal from populated areas. Also commonly thrown into the fires were the bodies of criminals, seen as a somewhat cleansing of society by utterly destroying the offenders. The fires of Gehenna were kept perpetually burning to utterly consume the corrupt things which were thrown into it.

When Christ was referring to Gehenna, He was therefore not referring to a place one goes after death. Gehenna would have been an inappropriate word to use to describe such a place. As those who would have heard him use this reference would not have associated it with an afterwordly place of punishment. They certainly would have associated it with the burning garbage dump.

See Matthew 10:28 28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”

www.sciforums.com...

Don't spread fear my friend... that is the worlds worst enemy

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

the witch on the broom icon came about from the wise women in the middle ages I believe. But the practise was simply that women would go out into the fields and jump over a broom to show the crops how high to grow. And yes, I am aware of the irony.


Now here is a sad background and a testament to the witch hunts like the OP is proposing here.

The icon of the green faced witch stems from the witch hunts, when accussed women were paraded in cages around the town, their faces were green and yellow from the beatings, and their hands are shown to be gnarled from the accussers beating their hands and fingers, and as they were paraded around town, beaten by the citizens also.

Quite disturbing to be in the 21st century and still see Christians like the poster, advocating very old and wrong concepts.

I wonder if he would stand by and watch a woman beaten for being a witch.

edit on 31-10-2011 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

I would not because I know that people have the right to choose whom they want to serve. But they need to be really honest in that they are serving someone, whether it is a goddess, god, Jehova, Ba'al, A'llah, Nike, Thor, Loki, or whomever. When people give themselves over to a spiritual entity in whatever form it is, they are subject to the entity. They are subject to the spiritual laws and commandments of that entity.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That was long and I apologize, but it is very clear in the teaching. When you yield your body and your life to a spiritual being, you are subject to that being. When you have a plethora of religions that say "Do what thou wilt.." which means "It's your thing, do what you want to do.." that leaves it wide open for you to do just exactly what you want, even if it means you are permitted to lust and commit adultery, that permission given by that entity. But you then have to accept there will be consequences for your actions. Jesus came to save us from that concept of doing our own thing, because we all were subject to spiritual entities that do rule over us. We really do not do our own thing.

reply to post by boymonkey74


It's called 'Sunday Worshiping'. I grew up in a small rural community about 20 minutes from a bustling urban center. In this small community I worked as a clerk at the local General Store. On Friday and Saturday nights I watched people come into the store and buy their stuff with alcohol on their breath, I saw neighbors laying with their neighbors, I knew of two dealers in the neighborhood...and this really was rural, farms and country living for about 700 people. If I worked Sunday morning I would see the SAME PEOPLE hung over, showered but still disheveled from the weekend debauchery sliding down the street to the local church or into town for their church of choice. It was amazing to me then as a young teen that people were so hypocritical. I never saw Satanists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus or any other denomination other than Christians doing this. Now I am not denouncing all Christians because brother, I believe in the true teachings of Christ, love thy neighbor, be good to your parents, don't hurt anyone et al. I also know that blind faith in ANY religion causes the people of this world tremendous pain.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I don't know if Wiccans can call up the dead, but I do know that they cast spells. If there is no danger in such practices then why is God against it?

God didn't write the bible, so what makes you think he is against it?

Considering the number of times witchcraft/sorcery/wizardry etc etc actually shows up in the bible..... and in each case it gives no explanation of why "God" hates such things.... I would say it was simply fear of the unknown in said examples.

Jesus said nothing of the sort, and considering "christians" are supposed to follow him... Judging these people for their beliefs is very "unchristian"

So in other words your saying it's false? Yes or No? And show me one book on earth that has not been written by men. No matter what belief a person follows, those beliefs most likely came from the writings of other men also so that proves nothings. The question is was it really inspired by God?

That is up to you to decide... why are you listening to what i tell you?

Im happy to give you my opinion... The only inspired writing in the bible is those that speak of Jesus and his example he left us... The rest can be tossed out the window in MY opinion...

He did not say anything like what the OP is selling... Though if you agree with what he says that is your judgement...

If you take the entire bible as "Gods word" that is your issue... but remember

The blind should not lead the blind...

Originally posted by avatar22
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Wow! Why didn't I think of that?

Because you have the mind of a moral, and such ideas in the mortal mind are foolishness

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


I can claim to be inspired by God, and no one could call me down for it either. If I accept the Jesus Christ as Saviour I can have that personal relationship with God and therefore be inspired.

Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I don't know if Wiccans can call up the dead, but I do know that they cast spells. If there is no danger in such practices then why is God against it?

God didn't write the bible, so what makes you think he is against it?

Considering the number of times witchcraft/sorcery/wizardry etc etc actually shows up in the bible..... and in each case it gives no explanation of why "God" hates such things.... I would say it was simply fear of the unknown in said examples.

Jesus said nothing of the sort, and considering "christians" are supposed to follow him... Judging these people for their beliefs is very "unchristian"

So in other words your saying it's false? Yes or No? And show me one book on earth that has not been written by men. No matter what belief a person follows, those beliefs most likely came from the writings of other men also so that proves nothings. The question is was it really inspired by God?

That is up to you to decide... why are you listening to what i tell you?

Im happy to give you my opinion... The only inspired writing in the bible is those that speak of Jesus and his example he left us... The rest can be tossed out the window in MY opinion...

He did not say anything like what the OP is selling... Though if you agree with what he says that is your judgement...

If you take the entire bible as "Gods word" that is your issue... but remember

The blind should not lead the blind...

edit on 31-10-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

If you believe the example He left us, then you should also agree when He said this:

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Are you saying that the Wiccans believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God? That would be blasphemy according to them.

Your right, the blind can never lead the blind, other wise both will fall into the ditch.

reply to post by Akragon


Yeah I know Hell doesn't exist (check my other thread) Iam just asking the Christians/ no strike that Iam not going to call them that because they don't seem Christian to me/ ...Iam just asking the brainwashed why they think it is Ok to follow a God who just wants our souls and for them to threaten anyone who doesn't agree with them with Hell.
(I had nightmares of Hell as a kid because of Hell and brimstone preaching)

reply to post by WarminIndy

Actually, Jesus could not have ever seen "Lucifer" do anything. Lucifer is a Latin name. The word "Lucifer" comes from 2 Latin words: Lux (=light) + ferous (=to bear or carry). Thus the name "Lucifer" means: Light-bearer or Light-bringer.
In the English version of the Bible the name "Lucifer" appears only one time--in Isaiah 14:12. This is Old Testament now. Since Hebrew is the original language of the Hebrew Bible (known as the Torah and Tanakh), it is therefore a language that has always been central to Judaism and valued by the Jewish people for over three thousand years. The big problem is that "Lucifer" is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar friend and Rabbi, who tells me the following:

"In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name Lucifer."

So, there you have it. Lucifer was a human being, not the Ultimate author of Evil. Now we shall look at Satan, which Christians seem to think is the same being as Lucifer. The Hebrew word "Satan" is used in the Hebrew Bible with the general connotation of "adversary," being applied to:
1. to an enemy in war (I Kings v. 18; xi. 14, 23, 25), from which use is developed the concept of a traitor in battle (I Samuel. 29)
an accuser before the judgment-seat (Psalms 6)
3. to any opponent (II Samuel)
4. As an angel who works for God, and acts as a prosecuting attorney against mankind (the Book of Job)

Some are getting a free education on Ancient History and Early Christianity here, aren't they?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


You Sir have no right to say anything about wicca's by your own admission you know nothing about them.