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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by blocula
Like I said to GS's post, it is irrational and illogical to say we Masons are Luciferian.
In the 3º - Master Chapter it says: "to inculcate humility, and in pride surpass Lucifer" (this paragraph speaks of hypocrisy) and then we see in the Bible: "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!" as well as the famous verse, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
Lucifer was a disgraced Babylonian King and that Pike warns not to be as prideful as this disgraced king, and also note that in the same paragraph he talks about Satan as a separate being.
Later in the book, Pike also talks strongly on the name of Satan when he says: "The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry." He also talks about how the "light bearer" was transformed into the false legend of Lucifer being the Devil. He also says, "LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darknesss!"
When we speak of light in Freemasonry we speak of enlightenment, of knowledge, of intelligence.
Science and religion are just two different languages telling the same story. I'm sure some scientists have fabricated and deceived the public, but I would say that not everything done by science has been evil or sinister.
I've been to the Cheyenne Mountains and even was allowed to go inside and tour beyond the public view. Quite a place.edit on 31-1-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)
Can you point to where in the Bible it says that Lucifer was an angelic name? I agree that's the popular perception, but I don't believe it's ever actually stated in the Bible itself. Moreover, I believe that myth has been confounded by the likes of Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno—fictions written for public entertainment more than a thousand years after the Bible, and certainly not gospels.
Originally posted by ElohimJD
1. Satan was created as the arch angel Lucifer "light-bringer".
Satan does not require you to knowingly worship him, he desires you not believe God is right.
www.chick.com...
Question: Should the Bible say “Lucifer” or “morning star” in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?
Answer: The King James Bible is correct. Although “Lucifer” is the Latin version of the name, the passage is talking about Satan, not a mere Babylonian king.
Light-Bearer or Morning Star?
Throughout the world, if you ask people who “Heyleel” (hey-LEYL) is, most will not know what to answer. But if you ask them, “Who is Lucifer?” you will very likely get the correct answer. People know who Lucifer is. Ask the Luciferians, who worship Lucifer as a being of light. Ask the Satanists, who call their master Lucifer. No one is in doubt as to who Lucifer is.
What if you ask them, “Who is the morning star?” or “Who is the day star?” Most will know it’s Jesus. Look at these scriptures:
2 Peter 1:19: “We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:”
Revelation 22:16: “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
Any translation that says “day star” or “morning star” or “star of the morning” in Isaiah 14:12, like most modern perversions, is bringing confusion. And God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). Many people reading the modern perversions end up asking, “If Lucifer is the morning star and Jesus is the morning star, then is Lucifer Jesus?” The modern translations are simply not clear!
That is not all. The term translated "Lucifer" does NOT at all mean "morning star" or "star of the morning." That would be two totally different Hebrew words. The word means "light-bearer." In Greek it's "heosphoros," “light-bearer.” In Latin it's translated "Lucifer," light-bearer. Whether you say "heylel," "heosphoros" or "lucifer," the meaning is the same: "light-bearer." But only Lucifer communicates who we are talking about in English.
And not only English uses the term. Look at these ancient translations of the word. They also use some form of “Lucifer.”
Spanish Reina-Valera (1557 through 1909) Lucero
Czech Kralika (1613) lucifere
Romanian Cornilescu (to present) Luceafar
Going Deeper: the Example of Ezekiel
There is evidence that God is speaking through his prophet to someone other than the king, even though it starts out to that person. Ezekiel 28 is an excellent example. It begins by talking about a human being ruling as king of Tyrus (Tyre). Then the scene shifts and the devil behind the leader starts to take focus:
First God addresses the king, called the "prince of Tyrus":
Ezekiel 28:1-2: “The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God”
Then to the devil behind the prince, called the "king of Tyrus" (note the more specific references that have nothing to do with the location or time of Tyre):
Ezekiel 28:11-17: “Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.”
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www.chick.com...
There was no one in Tyre that was in Eden or the mountain of God. No one there was a cherub (a type of angel). No one there was "created." This is Satan, Lucifer, the serpent, the dragon, the devil. (And I'm sure he recognizes those names for him by now!) Satan/Lucifer/the serpent/the dragon was a cherub, an angel. He was created, since angels were created, not born. Humans were born after Adam and Eve, not created. He was in the garden of God, Eden. He was the "covering cherub." He was "bright" as an angel of light (see also 2 Corinthians 11:14)
Now let's look back at Isaiah 14. Isaiah also begins talking to the physical king of Babylon, then afterward to the spirit behind him.
It starts out to the king:
Isaiah 14:4-8: “…thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us”
Then it changes in tone:
Isaiah 14:12-15: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
The scriptures tell us who this is. Jesus said:
Luke 10:18-20: “And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.”
Revelation also leaves no doubt as to who fell from heaven:
Revelation 12:7-12: “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
So we know that the only ones in the Bible that fell from heaven are the Devil and his angels. These are the ones for whom “everlasting fire,” the lake of fire, was made:
Matthew 25:41: “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
Revelation 20:10: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The King James Bible is right, however we view it. Even if we pretend the scripture is only talking to the earthly king, it still is clearly talking about Satan, the Devil, known world over as Lucifer.
May God bless you as you read and trust the translation of His preserved words in English, the King James Bible.
Text
1. Satan was created as the arch angel Lucifer "light-bringer".
There are numerous bible quotes within the link that batgirl provided...
Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by batgirl
I asked for proof in the Bible, and instead of citing the Bible, you give us Jack Chick..
If you worship based off of his writings, that explains a lot of the problems in the world...
And which one of them says that there was an angel named Lucifer who fell from grace with God?
Originally posted by blocula
There are numerous bible quotes within the link that batgirl provided...
Originally posted by network dude
Originally posted by MasterGemini
The middle plateau is inhabited by all sorts of entities and I think there are many many masons having a good ol' time ( ehemmm) with one ................. oh lets say Zaphod Beeblebrox or some other Fly.
The two pillars? LoL, more like a pair of idiots practicing ego masturbation.
You masons probably spend a lot of time a Gog.com (good old games).
Oh and beware those super intelligent shades of the color blue
I can think of only three letters that would do this post justice......
WTF
What is a cult book? We tried and failed to arrive at a definition: books often found in the pockets of murderers; books that you take very seriously when you are 17; books whose readers can be identified to all with the formula " whacko"; books our children just won’t get…
Some things crop up often: drugs, travel, philosophy, an implied two fingers to conventional wisdom, titanic self-absorption, a tendency to date fast and a paperback jacket everyone recognises with a faint wince. But these don’t begin to cover it.
Cult books include some of the most cringemaking collections of bilge ever collected between hard covers. But they also include many of the key texts of modern feminism; some of the best journalism and memoirs; some of the most entrancing and original novels in the canon.
Cult books are somehow, intangibly, different from simple bestsellers – though many of them are that. The Carpetbaggers was a bestseller; Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was a cult.
They are different from books that have big new ideas – though many of them are that. On The Origin of Species changed history; but Thus Spoke Zarathustra was a cult.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by batgirl
I asked for proof in the Bible, and instead of citing the Bible, you give us Jack Chick..
If you worship based off of his writings, that explains a lot of the problems in the world...
Originally posted by batgirl
...I'm not even a churchgoer but the scriptures quoted and the interpretations of them seem sound and clearcut to me. That is what's important about the article I posted, what it actually says and if it's accurate or not.