Arrogant Americans!

Originally posted by mwm1331
Again jakko I ask, how does an Americans pride in America lessen anyone else?

Look at fawlty's post, verf's post, etc.
Of course the arrogance I am talking about has to do with "courage" in relation to other countries. There's nothing wrong with just being proud on your country, without relating it to other countries, even though I stilll do not really understand such pride.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Who gives a flying flip what Europeans think about our political system? As if there are no political shenanigans that go on in EU countries?

This is not political.
It is about what Europeans think about your cultural system and the attitude of American people.
And I'm quite sure you give a flying flip about what Europeans think about that, or else you wouldn't have replied in the first place.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Klepto
I am proud of where I live (not necessarily the govnment that rules it)31/8/04 by Klepto]

Maybe you can explain that one.
Why are you proud of where you live?
Because you guys have the biggest hamburgers? Because the weather is always nice over there?
Is this about a location?

Being proud of being american, or living in the USA implies that being american or living in the USA is better than being from another country or living somewhere else.
Isn't that a little bit ignorant?

You did not choose to be american or to be born in the USA, neither did you deserve it. It's just what you are and where you are.

It's like saying OH I'M SO PROUD I HAVE A WHITE SKINCOLOR
You should be proud on something you did not something you are.

If you are not proud of your own country, then you do not deserve to live there.

Countries are not evil!! Religions are not evil!! Races are not evil!! It is individuals who are the evil ones. Saddam is evil, Bush is evil, Bin Laden is evil! People need to search their hearts and souls with regard to those who they allow to influence and lead them. Not just approve because they have a patriotic message. It is far too easy to just jump on the bandwagon. The TRUE PATRIOTS of any country(insert your country here) are those who know how their government works and speak up when it appears to be wrong.

NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC. Yes the Americans you watched on the Republican National Convention are VERY ARROGANT. When people assemble into political parties the arrogance level increases dramatically. It seems that high placed capitalists have become giddy by the obscene profits they have been able to make under the Bush administration and it shows on their faces. Believe me when I tell you that the man who lives in a rundown studio appartment does not share this giddiness, or arrogance, but he is still PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.

Like i said before, not ALL Europeans share Jakko's view. Many of us are able to sit on the fence and see both sides of the story and examine all concepts fully before making a statment (xenophobic or otherwise). Please do not take his comments as a European opinion as this is simply not true.. I will agree that a vast majority of Europeans find the American Government questionable, but we are not all closed minded as to make a derogatory statment about a whole nation from a second hand news report.

Originally posted by Jakko
I just watched some of the speeches on the convention, by Mccain and all, and what really shocked me was that loads of the people in the audience had this "NATION OF COURAGE" banner in their hands.
Wtf is up with these Americans???

Just read through the thread & you have the ususal suspects going jingoistic in reply; thank goodness you're "flame retardant"!!
It's a party convention, a group of small town & small city politicians who get to go trippy for a week with like minded people in similar roles, and get to rub elbows with the rock stars of their galaxy. That's it. Stupid phrases will abound on banners made by operatives who want a certain visual, a subliminal advetising that's right in your face.
It's more important to take away that "NATION OF COURAGE" banners were given to be waved, while speeches talking about fear, and more fear and "elect us it's the only way you're safe" and "thank GOD BUSH WAS PRESIDENT ON 9/11!" ( ergo, we MUST KEEP HIM should another 9/11 occur), and , oh yeah, FEAR....this is called sublimation in some circles, propaganda in others ....I just call it for what it is......not having any accomplishments to show for 4 years.

Again, the arrogance you speak of is warranted, but it's really more jingoism than anything else.....consistent messages that they should be afraid , from their leaders, has created it.
And they'll tell you that they're the "Party of Optimism".

[edit on 31-8-2004 by Bout Time]

Originally posted by Jakko

This is not political.
It is about what Europeans think about your cultural system and the attitude of American people.
And I'm quite sure you give a flying flip about what Europeans think about that, or else you wouldn't have replied in the first place.

Excuse me, this is NOT political????

Where was the sign you saw being held? At the Republican National Convention! It is most defiantly political!

My replying to "your thread" was mostly because of your ignorant title, "Arrogant Americans". Should I start a thread called "Arrogant Dutch" and discuss the Dutch athletes who waved their flags at the Olympics, calling that "Arrogant Patriotism"?

No, because it isn't that at all, it's called pride. That is what those who held the banner in question had, and regardless of your hypocritical views, there is nothing wrong with it what so ever....

Originally posted by koji_K
I'm American, but grew up mainly overseas. Whenever I would return to America, I would always find it strange just how many American flags you'd see everywhere, and how you'd have to say the pledge of alleigance in schools and salute the flag, etc etc. It was the like the whole nation was a pack of boy scouts or, dare I say, young fascists.

and

am american but live in germany, and everytime i visit the states i am amazed at the blatant ignorance. go to a happy little suburb and every house has an american flag out front. people watch the war like a football game on TV, GO TEAM GO! patriotism doesnt bother me until it becomes trendy.

You all need to visit the US on a day other than Independence day, memorial day, labor day, etc. Or did you all come post 9/11? Because those are the only times when "flags are everywhere".
I'm sorry but both statements are fairly obvious lies. Not that you're lying on purpose.....
I really want to know where you all visited, because I have lived here all my life and have traveled accross this country many times, I have been to almost every state, and I don't see that stuff except on the holidays mentioned.

The whole nation like boy scouts? or Young facists? Are you serious? You've been watching to many movies or something since you have no proof to back up that statement.
It's easier to teach pigs to fly than to make Americans agree on something, it's too diverse in nationalities, religions, beliefs (political and otherwise)....and that's great!


People watch war like they're watching football?
lol, who were you hanging out with? I can assure you with 100% accuracy, that's not the case for the vast majority of Americans.

Areyou implying that thier are no dutch who think the netherlands is greater than all other countries jakko? Or Iraqis, or britshers? That the idea that one lives in the "greatest country on earth" is soley an American conceit?
And even if we do believe that, how is that arrogance? Is it arrogance when fans of Manchester United say thiers is the greatest football club on earth?

You don't understand National Pride, fine but the fact that you do not understand it does not make it wrong.

You create a thread which accuses 260 million people of arrogance is that not arrogance in itself?

You state that sentiments like that would never be placed on banners in holland, is that not national pride?

Who are you to judge a culture you have never experienced except through the extreemly biased media?

In the last two hundred years America has gone from being the subject colony of one great world power to being a great world power in its own right. Is that not a reason to be proud?

Is all pride arrogance?

What of those people who imigrated to America, they are Americans by choice do they have a right to be proud?

Perhaps rather than passing blanket judgement on an entire nation you should spend your time finding ways to improve yourself.

Originally posted by Bout Time

It's more important to take away that "NATION OF COURAGE" banners were given to be waved, while speeches talking about fear, and more fear and "elect us it's the only way you're safe" and "thank GOD BUSH WAS PRESIDENT ON 9/11!" ( ergo, we MUST KEEP HIM should another 9/11 occur), and , oh yeah, FEAR....this is called sublimation in some circles, propaganda in others ....
[edit on 31-8-2004 by Bout Time]

What BT omits from his diatribe is that the Dems did the same thing with their, "Help is on the way" dung and the like. Yes, help to pay more taxes, to include 50 cents more a gallon for gas, help in the form of a government juggernaut twice as large with twice the red tape is on the way...

Of course, not for at least another 4 1/2 years...Kerry is self destructing as we post.....

Originally posted by Klepto
Like i said before, not ALL Europeans share Jakko's view.

I really think more Europeans share my view, than you think.

Many of us are able to sit on the fence and see both sides of the story and examine all concepts fully before making a statment (xenophobic or otherwise).

hahaha you're funny

I will agree that a vast majority of Europeans find the American Government questionable, but we are not all closed minded as to make a derogatory statment about a whole nation from a second hand news report.

Second hand news report?
Even though I think all TV stations captured the wonderfull banners, the problem is something in attitude, not in banners. Banners just reveal it.
Ah well read through the thread again and you'll hopefully notice some of the more honest posts about this subject as well.

Originally posted by verfed
It must be difficult to live in a country that has no will of its own.

uhhh, no will of it's own? I think being sovereign is pretty much a will of our own. Look at the International court of justice which is situated in the netherlands other international institutes.

Soon the European Union will become stronger and it will suck up the tiny Netherlands.

Although we are maybe tiny,

- but we still may have the biggest harbour in the world.

- We are one of the richest countries in the world.

- We are in the top ten of the 8 countries that do the most export.

- We are in the top 10 countries of highest quality of life.

etc etc. Im not saying America is tiny, but we are not just a little country.

Maybe the North Sea will swallow you up because I heard much of your country is under sea level.

If you do a little bit of research you will find out that only a little part of the netherland will flood.

Proud of the fact that on August 21, 1598 the Deed of Transfers proclaimed Netherlands independent.

Can't follow your point here?

Are you proud that nowadays you can find so much Dutch influence from the time we colonized New York?

Your country was lost when Belgium became independent?



Are you proud that after all these centuries that the Netherlands is still here on this Earth as a sovereign nation?

Yes, I am so proud of that!

Ohh, and thanks for helping us in WW2. But don't forget, the Canadians, the Russians, the English etc etc that helped us.

Originally posted by Jakko


Ah well read through the thread again and you'll hopefully notice some of the more honest posts about this subject as well.

In other words, the ones that on the surface agree with your warped opinion.....


By the way, if this is not political as you claim, why did you start it in the political forum, eh????????

Originally posted by mwm1331
Areyou implying that thier are no dutch who think the netherlands is greater than all other countries jakko?

Interesting question.
In all honesty I think USA has a larger percentage of people who think their country is superior to other countries, than the netherlands and other european countries. (maybe the french come close)

Perhaps rather than passing blanket judgement on an entire nation you should spend your time finding ways to improve yourself.

Oh man, such a weak response was not expected from you.
I am not passing judgement on an entire nation, there's really no need to get all upset about it.
I allready said I liked america right?
Ah well let me say it again;

I really like America
And that's not just because they have really big hamburgers...

Being proud of being american, or living in the USA implies that being american or living in the USA is better than being from another country or living somewhere else.

Why? Why does being proud of who I am lessen anyone else? Why does the fact that I am proud of the accomplishements of my countrymen lessen the accomplishments of yours?

I was about to throw in my grandfathers rather couragious stories about helping Jews hide and get away from the germans, risking his own life.

Tell me Jakko are you proud of your grandfathers actons in the war? Or the actions of others that did the same?

Please guys, lets try and remember this isn't a flame-fest.

Let's keep the angryness for the Mud-Pit

Jakko, what are you on about, you have no idea what statements you are making REALLY!

" really think more Europeans share my view, than you think.

what would you know, I had to explain to you where the UK was in the first place.... I am European and I do not.. I really think more Europeans share MY view, than YOU think.

"Second hand news report?
Even though I think all TV stations captured the wonderfull banners, the problem is something in attitude, not in banners. Banners just reveal it.
Ah well read through the thread again and you'll hopefully notice some of the more honest posts about this subject as well. "

were you there? NO! you haven't even been to the country and received the information SECOND HAND! That is what is mean't by receiving something second hand, you were given information about an event that could be editted for the benefits of the information provider....

I suggest you read YOUR thread, as I have on multiple occasions had to correct the contradictory and close minded statements you have made all the way through.

Interesting question.
In all honesty I think USA has a larger percentage of people who think their country is superior to other countries, than the netherlands and other european countries. (maybe the french come close)

Why? On what information do you base that assumption? You have not traveled to the U.S. so its not based on personal experience. How many americans have you met? How many of them would you define as arrogant? Do you feel tht the relativly small number of Americans you have met is representative of the whole of the nation?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Why? Why does being proud of who I am lessen anyone else? Why does the fact that I am proud of the accomplishements of my countrymen lessen the accomplishments of yours?

I understand your point, but I don't fully agree.
When someone is proud about being an American it does give me the feeling that he's glad he's from America, over being from any other country.
Is that just my perception maybe?
I can't think of anyone from any other country who would say "I am proud I am from XXXX".

It makes no sense to say such a thing because you don't know what "being from another country" is like.
hmmm do you slightly understand my point?
It's like being proud you're blonde, or being proud you have blue eyes, or being proud you live in a street with a lot of trees.

You proud to hail from the Netherlands Jakko?
Have any Nationalistic pride....hmmm?

Thought so.....
Your point was?



seekerof

Jakko...........


My first post says...
"...... Also, don't confuse arrogance with patriotism, I am proud of where I live (not necessarily the govnment that rules it).. as Americans I am sure are all proud of where they live, but doesn't necessarily respect the leader that got into office by default. "


I am PROUD to be from the UK......... good enough for ya?

READ YOU THREAD BEFORE ARGUING... although you are hilarious, you are getting quite tiresom....

You are obviously not proud to be from your country and you pointless attack on another only fuels the idea to others that you want to be American yourself...

no need to throw the toys out of the pram about this mind, I am sure they would accept you with open arms