Arrogant Americans!

Koka - I think that asking someone who is critisizing American culture if they have ever been to America is a valid question. Far too often on these boards those who are most critical in thier assesment of American culture have never been to America, whch in turn means they have never experienced American culture.How do you critisize something you have never experienced? Or have no first hand knowledge of? Prior to comming to europe I had never heard of a shoarma, had I critisized this food without trying it, I would be guilty of ignorance. Why then are those who critisize a country they have no first hand knowledge of not considered ignorant?

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Klepto

Are you anti american or not?

[edit on 31/8/04 by Klepto]

Of course not!
The hamburger thing was just a joke, not ment to insult. (even though I think you do have quite big hamburgers ;+)
I like america, but as most other countries, it's far from perfect.

how many times Jakko must you be told to get your facts right.... I am from the UNITED KINGDOM, PART OF EUROPE! look under my avatar and that shows UK, that means UNITED KINGDOM...



[edit on 31/8/04 by Klepto]

I know Klepto, I was just answering your question.
hmmm
Are you okay?

Those banner are made by the gop, they are called CATCH PHRASES.... The liberals did it at their convention like "help is one the way" "hope is on the way"
They made signs for hillary clinton, ted kennedy, ect... They are marketing slogans...

I didn't care for McCain's speech last night, I loved the former mayor Gulliani's speech, that was great... And you should probably slap yourself because your drinking the kool-aid dude.. Arrogant isn't the word, we don't have anything to be arrogant about, who needs to be arrogant when your country was founded on honest principles, a country who has helped many other countries through the years, a nation of people who are diverse, people come here all the time in search for a better life, I don't see people going over to china to live, or to the middle east do you? I don't see American's taking away other countries jobs overeas do you? There is nothing to be arrogant about, just happy that we live in a great country, pride goes with every country around the world...... Pride and arrogance aren't the same thing.
Again, what is there to be so arrogant about? Those signs? If I knew better i'd say you have a bigger personal problem then you think.....Those signs were created for people to hold, the rnc is pretty much for the undecided voters, they already have the republican's vote. So what is there to be arrogant about? McCain may have tried to put pride in people's hearts, thats what all leaders do to the people, they try and blow them up, get their emotions flowing, get people cheerful and loud. It's part of the game dude.

Originally posted by Jakko

Yes I apologise for that rude comment.
When people make posts like "HES JUST DOING IT FOR THE ATS POINTS" I get kinda pissed.

Maybe if I could buy a car with ATS points I would make meaningless topics to get points, but this topic was actually ment pretty serious.

Unfortunately, some here do have a, "points fetish", which is where I expect the comment came from. The problem with the thread is that it seems, at face value, to attack not only the USA, but one of our core freedoms, that of free speech. Perhaps wording your posts differently and not calling those holding the banner "fruitcakes" would be prudent. The sign was rather innocuous, considering some of the signs of the protesters outside the venue. Why didn't you start a thread about the "fruitcake" holding the sign that said, "Bush crucified Christ"???

Oh man.
MWM let me explain it ONE MORE TIME.

I have never been to the USA, yet I have eye-balls in my head so I can see the freaking WE ARE A VERY COURAGEOUS NATION banners when I look at speeches on the convention.

Is there any additional things I need to know before I can say anything about what I just saw?

you have quoted a statement I have made, then said:

"You do have the biggest hamburgers..."

do I have a problem? not at all..

do you have a lack of understanding that which is out under your nose... perhaps..

no offense but I don't think you quite grasp global geographics or current affairs, you seem to have a brief idea from watching TV though... good for you

(I do apologise if you beleive that I thought you had some kind of "point Fetish", it was not my intention to insult you Jakko, only I have experienced this on other threads.)

Contributed by ME, a NO AMERICAN BRITISH CITIZEN.

[edit on 31/8/04 by Klepto]

[edit on 31/8/04 by Klepto]

And I do think (after reading some of the posts in this thread contributed by americans, yep they have probably been to america) that this attitude, of thinking USA being more couragious than other countries, leads to arrogance.
Misplaced arrogance even.

But dont you guys think that the elections are a little over the top?
With all the money and resources involved? I can be put to better use...

Originally posted by Klepto
you have quoted a statement I have made, then said:

"You do have the biggest hamburgers..."

Ah yes you are right, I should have said you have the biggest buses or something like that.
I thought I was speaking to an American, sorry.

Originally posted by Jakko
Oh man.
MWM let me explain it ONE MORE TIME.

I have never been to the USA, yet I have eye-balls in my head so I can see the freaking WE ARE A VERY COURAGEOUS NATION banners when I look at speeches on the convention.

Is there any additional things I need to know before I can say anything about what I just saw?

So?? What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? You are criticizing those at the convention for being proud of their country and holding a sign that says so! Had they not done so, would you then call them cowards for not having the conviction to show their support?

The problem seems to lie with YOUR personal problem with individual patriotism. Regardless of the opinion of another poster that patriotism is wrong, it remains something that most people in the world hold dear, whether it be to a country, state, city or family. It is not wrong, it is something that makes us what we are as a species. Perhaps you would do better to GAIN a little patriotism instead of mocking it.....

By the way, the title you chose for "your thread", "Arrogant Americans", is highly inflamatory. You should expect high octane comments when you throw down the gauntlet as you have....

[edit on 31-8-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

It depends jakko on whether you are critisizing the sentiment of the banners, the people holding them, or American culture as a whole.
Based on your own postings you seem to be critsizing Amercan culture based soley on the evidence of the banners. Now explain this, is it proper for you to critisize an entire culture based on one image? Would it be proper for me to deduce that the netherlands is a country of pot addicts based soley on the knowledge that marijuana is legal in the netherlands?
For you to say that Americans are are arrogant based on a single image from a political convention is to me the height of both ignorance and arrogance.
Ignorance as it beles an uninformed attempt to judge a complex structure based on a nonrepresentative sample.
Arrogance as it is an attempt to pass judgement on a culture, by stating that this one incident shows that culture to be inferior to your own. (you would never see this kind of thng in holland I.E. because we wouldn't do ths in holland we are more humble therfore better than you)

Is the banner in question an indication of arrogance, or merley a political tool used to make people proud of thier political party and country in n attempt to rase support for tht partes political candidate?

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Klepto
you have quoted a statement I have made, then said:

"You do have the biggest hamburgers..."

Ah yes you are right, I should have said you have the biggest buses or something like that.
I thought I was speaking to an American, sorry.

no worries, but your comments do come across as very xenophobic...


I would not make comments about the fact you come from a place called Bussum, pronounced the same as the English word BOSOM to mean Breast or Tit.


[edit on 31/8/04 by Klepto]

Originally posted by ubermunche
Now that is really arrogant, have you any idea what it must be like to live in an occupied country, to be a small country facing the might of some world power and helpless to stop it, that's the kind of arrogance I dislike whether US or any country, an inability to grasp how things are for someone with a completely different set of circumstances to deal with and dismissing them as cowards rather than examine the actual facts. Do you know how many men, women and children suffered and died under the nazis, and even so how many continued as much as they could to offer resistance while under occupation, that takes guts and you could argue that if it wasn't for individuals offering help and suport to allied spies and intelligence the war may have turned out differently. Europe was not a nation of cowards. By all means be proud of your country but don't fall back on blind patriotism to distort the facts.
[edit on 31-8-2004 by ubermunche]

Good post, that's so true.
I was about to throw in my grandfathers rather couragious stories about helping Jews hide and get away from the germans, risking his own life.

Also I fail to see how the statement "we are a very courageous nation" puts anyone else down. It was smply a staement of belief, had the banners said "we are the most corageous nation" perhaps your point would hold water but as it stands it does not.
For example if I say "I make very good money" it does not imply that others don't or that I make betyter money than anyone else it simply means that "I make very good money"
What surprises me is how you can interpert a statement which does not mention any other country in either word or implication to be a statement which is derrogatory to any other nation.

But dont you guys think that the elections are a little over the top?
With all the money and resources involved? I can be put to better use...

Especially when the convention's point is to announce who's running for President, and with a party incumbent, that's pretty much a sealed deal... What a waste of resources and airtime.... I'd rather see those same resources all go to a debate....and not one of Shrub's "scripted" ones. I still marvel at how the hell the press lets him get away with that.... I've often heard bush's "debate skills" lauded... Well, duh! If they are SCRIPTED!!!

Originally posted by mwm1331
Now explain this, is it proper for you to critisize an entire culture based on one image?

It's not based on one image, but the banner thing was a good example, a clear symbol that's not an extreme, but result of a general attitude.

What do you think Europeans think when they see such things on TV?
All prejudice about arrogant and foolish americans is underlined by stuff like this. I know most of you are not that bad, but it's not only CNN's fault that Europeans look at Americans like this.

I am European and I have to contest that you cannot base the mentality of a whole nation upon a media report which would be bias to suit the medias needs. Are you the same as every single person from your country? or are you an individual in your own right who chooses to make descisions based upon all knowledge and not from one source. If you have never been to the USA, how can you possible comment on the attitude of a nation you have never visited? Sounds like the arguement is with regards to the way media can manipulate the perception of others with 2nd hand news.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by mwm1331
Now explain this, is it proper for you to critisize an entire culture based on one image?

It's not based on one image, but the banner thing was a good example, a clear symbol that's not an extreme, but result of a general attitude.

What do you think Europeans think when they see such things on TV?
All prejudice about arrogant and foolish americans is underlined by stuff like this. I know most of you are not that bad, but it's not only CNN's fault that Europeans look at Americans like this.

For the sake of argument lets say i conced your point, that Americans believe ourselves to be courageous. How is that Arrogance?
How does that take anything away from anyone else?
How does that make us superior to nyone else?

To prove arrogance you must prove that we beiev that our courage is greater than all others, not that we believe our own courage exists.

If I say America was founded on the principles of freedom, does that mean that I have said that no other nation was?

Again jakko I ask, how does an Americans pride in America lessen anyone else?

Originally posted by Jakko

It's not based on one image, but the banner thing was a good example, a clear symbol that's not an extreme, but result of a general attitude.

What do you think Europeans think when they see such things on TV?
All prejudice about arrogant and foolish americans is underlined by stuff like this. I know most of you are not that bad, but it's not only CNN's fault that Europeans look at Americans like this.

Who gives a flying flip what Europeans think about our political system? As if there are no political shenanigans that go on in EU countries? Does the US have the patent on such things? I think not!

Get over it. There are laughable things going on in the world every day. You only bring up frivolous crappola like this because it's the US.

Talk about hypocritical bull....