If Everybody Had a Gun.....

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Wow... I am almost speechless at such a point of view. If such a viewpoint is widespread in England, I can see why Britan is in the shape it is.

Here in America...in many places, a gun is a tool. It is as essential as a chain saw or hammer. In a rural area, if i see a coyote stalking my goats...I will shoot him. I guess in England you would call animal control to come and clean up after half your herd is maimed or killed. Same with bear, wild dogs, and bobcats.... they are a very real threat.

Here in America, we have a big country...with lots of miles in between towns and communities. In Europe, villages and small hamlets are generally a few miles or KM apart... in many cases, they are within sight of each other. If someone was breaking into my house, and i call the sheriff..it may be 10 minutes before he arrives. that is a long time when someone is tearing down your door and will very likely harm your wife and children. So...cowardly or not, someone tries to break in my home...I will shoot him and take him down...

As for that piece of paper, The US Constitution... it is the foundation of our country and preserves the rights of our people. It gives OWS the right to protest as it does the Tea Party...and when those rights are infringed upon, it prescribes legal recourse. I can travel from NC to California and then Alaska and be sure of what rights I have... having recently traveled to Mexico, I can assure you that is a comfort.

Swiss gun crime

I found the above website interesting as the swiss have a lot of guns per population but have a very low crime rate. Also having all those guns aparently put the germans off invading during the war ( not sure about that)

It does seem it's a cultural thing. If you live in a violent society then people will use whatever is available to kill, steal and intimidate. I propose that the problem is some aspects of American society which apear to have a violent streak. It does apear that the majority of gun victims are from African origins so it does make you wonder. I'm going to research this a bit more so i can understand whats really going on.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


If everyone was like you i'd say arm everyone !

In the UK we just don't have the same need, there's no wolves or bears, biggest thing we've got is a fox. The police are generally efficent though response times average out at about 9 mins.

In reality the biggest danger from violence is hanging around city centres during late night drinking hours, thats where the majority of violence comes from in the UK. I've only ever heard of one case involving home invasion amoung people i know, and that was at the house of a weightlifting prison guard, it didn't go well for the invaders.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


That 80 million was enough guns to stop Japan from invading the California coast......and one darn good reason no one else has....they would be met with good ol' boys guns in their face.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

Further, there are very real threats by wildlife here in America. For instance, last year in the south end of my county...a farmer lost 2 cows to a pack of coyotes...that is no small amount of money lost. Just a few miles north of me, another farmer lost a young calf to coyotes. A full grown beef cow can bring in about 1100 plus US dollars. A bull used for breeding and stud work can be worth a lot more.

At night sometimes, you can hear coyotes howling and yipping like wolves in an old Dracula movie. The nearest town to me is about a 20 minute drive away...the nearest city is 30 minutes. Yet, we still have sightings of black bear. A few years ago, I lost 2 doe meat goats to a bobcat...bobcats attack around the neck, bring dow the prey, but do little other damage. Coyotes attack the rear and pretty much tear up and eat the soft abdominal tissue.

And since we are 20-30 minutes from the nearest munincipality... and we have a big county... it really does take about 10 minutes or more for a sheriff's deputy to get to the scene of a crime or accident. To see how long that is, sit down and time yourself on a clock...sit still and focus on a clock for 10 minutes. Now imagine that you have called authorities and you are waiting....

reply to post by AlreadyGone


No problem it was meant as a compliment, you seem like a sound guy and i know that life in the country is different. I have a few friends that run stables out in the UK countryside and they lose chickens on a fairly regular basis due to foxes. Must be terribly frustating losing livestock ! There's not much small scale farming in the UK, most of it has gone large scale comercial, there are small scale hobby farmers about still though.

The way i see it is different situations call for different measures, as i said in an earlier post if i lived in South Africa (highest gun homicide rate) i'd want not only guns but probably a tank or two.

As for the situation in the UK i don't think more guns would help the situation but thats just for here. Over your side of the pond it's a different story.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Prohibition never works. Not for alcohol, drugs, prostitution, guns or whatever. It never works. Never has and never will. The very concept of prohibition flies in the face of human nature.

Very true. Guns, Booze, Drugs; you take something like that away and a black market will spring up to supply the demand. And when you take one supplier down, ten more will spring up in their place.

Prohibition is never the answer because it never works. Regulations and controls work a lot better, just look at the US Alcohol industry.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Got to say yours was the best arguement for having guns in the whole thread, even made me re-think my stance a bit ! and without any agression or vitriol That deserves stars

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Do you remember reading about the Wild Wild West?

It might be quite a bit like that. But essentially - I agree with you 100%

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Hopeforeveryone

 

Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

Further, there are very real threats by wildlife here in America. For instance, last year in the south end of my county...a farmer lost 2 cows to a pack of coyotes...that is no small amount of money lost. Just a few miles north of me, another farmer lost a young calf to coyotes. A full grown beef cow can bring in about 1100 plus US dollars. A bull used for breeding and stud work can be worth a lot more.

At night sometimes, you can hear coyotes howling and yipping like wolves in an old Dracula movie. The nearest town to me is about a 20 minute drive away...the nearest city is 30 minutes. Yet, we still have sightings of black bear. A few years ago, I lost 2 doe meat goats to a bobcat...bobcats attack around the neck, bring dow the prey, but do little other damage. Coyotes attack the rear and pretty much tear up and eat the soft abdominal tissue.

And since we are 20-30 minutes from the nearest munincipality... and we have a big county... it really does take about 10 minutes or more for a sheriff's deputy to get to the scene of a crime or accident. To see how long that is, sit down and time yourself on a clock...sit still and focus on a clock for 10 minutes. Now imagine that you have called authorities and you are waiting....

www.mnn.com...

A recent study from the University of Wisconsin shows that ancient human populations may have caused the death of large animals across the globe. It seems that man’s first accomplishment upon reaching new territory was to hunt all its large animals to death.

Originally posted by Skewed
It would be an awesome thing.

An armed society is a polite society.

If guns had not been invented, we would still be having this same discussion, except it would be about bats, knives, clubs, tire irons, shovels, swords....I am sure there are a few others.

This is a discussion of cyclic redundancy.

edit on 18-10-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

We are already past guns anyway. The question the OP should have posed is "what if every country had nukes?".

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

The discussion surrounding gun rights is largely centred upon whether someone should be allowed to possess a firearm on a day-to-day basis, without due reason.

What, in your opinion, constitutes "due reason" to own a firearm?

I own four. Shotgun, two rifles, and a handgun. Not much of an arsenal, but it's a start... The "due reasons" are as follows. Shotgun, for bird hunting. The rifles for the same reason. The handgun? Something else entirely. It's for personal defense, in the event, however unlikely, that some miscreant out to no good should attempt to deprive me of my life, and/or treasures (such as they are...), or hurt my family.
That is all the "due reason" I need to own one, or more, firearms. Hunting, and self defense. I can own one simply because I like the shine of the bluing, or the history behind it.

I don't even need that much "due reason". That's the wonderful thing about the Second Amendment, and the freedom it enshrines, I don't really need "due reason".

Now, just who is defining "due reason"?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


charles whitman ?

reply to post by burningbelief


no it wasnt - japan never had the logistical capacity to attack the CONUS , in 1941 they were not even capable of invading thie main islands of the hawian archipeligo

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


As someone who has been a victim of a home invasion and was not a gun owner at the time, I feel it could have changed my life, in a positive way. The police tried their dead level best to protect me, but there truly is only so much they can do. The criminal that entered my home that night was arrested, tried and eventually let out of jail. Lived less than three miles from my home and changed my life forever as I was in constant fear of something worse than what initially happened, and that was retaliation against me for following through with prosecution. He violated parole within 30 days and was a fugitive for several years after that, these were the worst years of my life. He then was apprehended and served almost 4 years for his crime, meaning that the fact I chose to prosecute him caused him to spend approximately 5 years in jail, because of ME...as he never took responsibility for his actions. Once released he then moved within 3 miles of me again and until I finally was able to sell my home. I was a single mom and struggled to raise 3 children with no support whatsoever, and buying my home was one of the greatest milestones of my life, I chose to stay after the incident because I did not want his actions to make me leave my home and hated the idea of being a "victim". I guess this was my way of not allowing him to victimize us further but eventually it just became more than I could bare and my children were almost grown with one already moved out anyway. If it were not for the handgun I slept with every night after the break in I do not believe I would have been able to sleep at night ever. I still to this day have a rational fear and awareness that we are not safe in our own homes as anyone out there with a desire to kick your door in and enter can and will if they choose to. Unless you have a police officer sitting in your living room watching over your family, you absolutely will benefit from having a weapon for defense.

i have heard people say things like:
"Which one would you have"
i dont want no human blood on my hands weather they are bad or not, the only time i would kill is becuase i have to not becuase some one is burgling my house

and "i wish my grand mother had a gun"

Im sorry for your loss but bringing another gun into the equasion dont solve anything, it becuase gun are legal in the first place only makes situations like this possible


and "a gun socity is a polite socity"

yeah only by force, you shouldnt force people to be polite, they should be polite becuase it si well mannered and people appreshiate it more.

reply to post by definity

and "a gun socity is a polite socity"

utter twaddle - a ploite society , is a polite society

as evidence - how many amish carry guns ?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
If such a viewpoint is widespread in England, I can see why Britan is in the shape it is.

What do you even mean by that ? Britain is a damn sight better country to live in than the US, because - by and large - we're not populated by primitive, backwardass hillbillies whose ''thoughts'' are dictated to them by a tatty 230-year-old Constitution, written by slave owners, rapists and drunkards.

Ever wonder why Europe is far ahead of the US in most ways ?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Here in America...in many places, a gun is a tool. It is as essential as a chain saw or hammer. In a rural area, if i see a coyote stalking my goats...I will shoot him. I guess in England you would call animal control to come and clean up after half your herd is maimed or killed. Same with bear, wild dogs, and bobcats.... they are a very real threat.

Farmers and a lot of people in rural areas tend to own guns in the UK, too.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
As for that piece of paper, The US Constitution... it is the foundation of our country and preserves the rights of our people.

So what ? It's hardly done much to ''preserve the rights of your people''. Next time you take a flight, have fun with that guy with latex gloves - I know he will be enjoying himself !

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

charles whitman ?

True.

And he was eventually stopped by passers-by with their own firearms. Kept in cover until police arrived and the police were able to make it to him due to citizens with firearms keeping him distracted.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

Do you remember reading about the Wild Wild West?

It might be quite a bit like that. But essentially - I agree with you 100%

For christs sake! The "Wild West" was a complete fabrication!

myths of the old west
ridiculous myths you think are true
old west violence mostly myth

Sitting in front of the most capable research device ever created still cant prevent people from stating personal belief as historical fact. WTF?