Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Antony Sutton discussed in his book "America's Secret Establishment" how the Dewey system has been implemented to make us all into little specialized cogs in the wheel of society. The individual exists for society, and not the other way around. This is called Statism, and Dewey pushed a Statist ideology. I was just reading last night about Noam Chomsky as someone had posted a vid of him, and it turns out he believes in the Dewey system...Ha, who would have guessed that a self-described anarcho-socialist would subscribe to such a Totalitarian system!!!!

reply to post by doctornamtab


Beautifully written OP. The reasonable expectations for people (in all income classes) have been raising with each generation until recently. Once we achieved a point in society where we could clothe, shelter, and feed every citizen simply by maintaining infrastructure, we decided not to. Instead, we figured out ways to cater to the evil and greedy people in the world by allowing them to exploit the rest of the citizens. This is the way of capitalism and it is the opposite of an evolved society.

We have the infrastructure to switch to free energy alternatives, to farm sensible foods (not inefficient subsidized beef), and to provide basic healthcare to everybody who pledges allegiance to our flag. We have enough EMPTY houses owned by banks (that we bailed out with our taxes) to house the homeless. Beyond this, it's simply maintenance. If you want luxury items, you must work. If you want a car, you must work. If you want things that actually place a burden on society to provide (which food and shelter doesn't need to do), you must work. But basic human necessities can be met with no burden on the working class (the only class needed). It's not "communism", it's "common sense".

Advance mandkind all you want. There always be some new perceived need or want. F some industrial robot line manufacture. If you yourself cannot at the very minnimum build this stuff from schematics and know how it works, then people should not be able to partake in the advancement. If everything is automated 90% of people would not need to exsist. Nature doesn't need filler.

I'll keep my iPod and HDTV, thanks.

But if you want to go live off the land in a mud hut, by all means do so.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
If everything is automated 90% of people would not need to exsist. Nature doesn't need filler.

100% of the people don't need to exist now. Do you realize your argument echoes the Luddites during the industrial revolution? It is natural progression. When we discovered the wheel, we didn't think "Mmm... that makes half of us useless now therefore we should scrap the idea"

reply to post by Darkrunner


This really is a good point.

While I agree money and possessions do not equal happiness, I wonder how many people here would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and do as you suggest, live in a mud hut with no running water, electricity and such. Oh, and no modern medicine to save the lives of your children when they need help.

I would wager less than 1%. Otherwise they would have sold everything and moved to the Australian outback to live off the land.

So yes I agree. You go live in mud huts. I love my life and the comforts 21st century living gives me. Life is good!

reply to post by doctornamtab


What about someone who loves their work? What about someone who has a dream to make computers, or a new type of pizza, or build buildings? What about someone who dreams up stories and writes them down to sell them? Is that not a job? What about someone who learns a trade and takes pride in their craftsmanship? A professional musician?

What would you propose instead? How would you support yourself? Hunt? Fish? Grow your own crops? Barter?

reply to post by doctornamtab


"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

- Buckminster Fuller

Thought this quote from one of the foremost geniuses of the 20th century was appropo to the excellent OP. For anyone interested in exploring these sentiments further, I'd recommend near anything by Jiddu Krishnamurti. His work really forces you to contemplate the status quo. And, finally, if anyone was curious as to a glimpse at an alternate modern society that's both logical and practical (that relates to the OP), I highly recommend the Aldous Huxley's final novel, Island:

Island - by Aldous Huxley

Island - Wikipedia entry

reply to post by doctornamtab


Well our trade agreements have shipped all the jobs that WERE here, over to developing nations. So you see, we haven't actually lost a need for those jobs, we have just LOST THOSE JOBS. There's a big difference. I can see you are not an economist, by any stretch of the imagination. lulz

edit: however i agree with you that technology does support us moving forward, as a people and technologically, and that technologies most likely do exist, locked away in the vaults of the military bases and their contractors like lockheed, and the USPTO has been terrible at actually being a "free place for inventors to patent their ideas" because they often get stolen for national security if they would actually have any "world-changing" effect with the ability to support the masses, energy devices for example that would destroy big oil. But as far as the need for jobs, we have systematically shipped all of our jobs out of this country, and if you don't acknowledge that you just dont understand politics and history. I will give you a chance to respond. I will also give specific examples of trade agreements and laws passed that have hurt us economically should you ask me to. They are pretty easy to find on your own.



Actually I will just refer all of you to here.
www.ronpaul.com...
This man gets it. Free trade hasn't really been free for a while now.

Jobs is a good thing. What the GOP wants is no jobs and make us compete with the third world countries.

People in third world countries get cheap practically slaves. GOP wants US to compete with that. Anyone see what is wrong there? If you compete with that you will likely destroy the middle class of what we have known it.

You only get what you put in, if people in the West simply left their jobs and start growing food in there garden you would have to say goodbye to cars, mail, internet, tv and all the other luxuries. Now a big part of me likes life the thought but I guarantee you will be working a whole lot more trying to find water and keeping family alive.

reply to post by OwenGP185


Thats what people forget. Subsistance farming is NOT easy, especially without todays fertilizers and herbicides, farm equiptment, cold storage and more.

One bad drought or flood and your food can be wiped away. I dont imagine its easy watching your family die of starvation.

If there's something I know, is that in order to understand and to grasp the very meaning of what this topic is about, you need to have experienced some kind of intellectual enlightenment, something that will make you see further that what has been indoctrinated into your mind since you were born, something that will make you realize that what you think is right or wrong, possible and impossible etc. are all part of your conditioned mind. I know it's not easy, because it is not easy to acknowledge that you were wrong and that what you have been thinking and doing your whole life is wrong. The emotional reaction to that kind of sudden knowledge can be huge. There have been real physical slaves in mankind's history, in antiquity or more recently, that have defended their master, that have told their children that it was a normal thing to be a slave, "because it is life, it is the way it is, deal with it". You can call that the normalcy bias. In all periods of time, antiquity or medieval times etc., there were people to think and say out-loud that their reality at those times was THE reality, and that nothing could change that, they thought that they were "the sate of the art" society, they thought that they arrived at the end of times, they thought that they were some kind of perfect human beings like a finished product. Guess what? They were completely wrong. We know that today. And just like we think today that their societies of slavery and servitude is retarted and backwards, we are today the retarded and backward society of the future generations that will live in centuries to come. But, there is a difference, because today we have the science to tell us how to do things and what things we should do to improve everyone's life for the improvement of our species. So, with that knowledge in mind, it is our duty to use that science to shape our future and our present, because we can no longer let the history hazardously flow as it was flowing before with all the destructions and suffer that it brings. Let's design the future.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I've lurked here for a while now but this thread motivated me to make a handle and give my two cents.

This site's motto is Deny ignorance and I find the OP to be rife with it. Personally I find my job to be part of the spine of our modern society. I do electrical construction and I love doing it. Each day I get to build a more modern world for all of us to live in. Each day I get to apply my knowledge and skills to unique problems and create something.

The OP claims that we don't need jobs anymore which is quite ignorant for many reasons. First the argument that we only work for food and shelter and that we are enslaved to those needs. You can live in a mud hut and eat rice for almost nothing. No one is putting a gun or whip upon anyone and forcing them to earn money for carpet, beds, linens, climate control, electricity, internet, television, playstations, sneakers, stereos, cologne, cell phones or a million other things that people blow their incomes on.

Next up, the claim that only 1% of the population is necessary to feed us. Sure only that percent might be doing the actual farming but what about all the other factors. The increased productivity of farming is due to machinery which requires the harvesting of raw materials, transport of said materials, electromotive force to process, more force to forge these secondary goods into intermediate and final products. Now that electricity requires primarily coal to power, which means mining, more machinery and more transit. Lets not forget the years of education required for humans to engineer this entire process. Very very quickly the 'horse and plow' has become an entire states worth of infrastructure. Now there is a potential for 'green' energy but that is not here and now. You still have to harvest, process and build a green energy system. That could be a century of labor for mankind even in perfect conditions and then someone has to maintain it.

Now as for the concept of useless jobs and skill sets. Sure I can see your point here, lots of people work in fields that are entirely 'vaporware' as they produce nothing palpable. No one is forcing you to remain in a labor that in your heart of hearts you feel is masturbatory. Learn something new, stop consuming # you don't need and build your own personal utopia. You want to free yourself, then learn a useful trade (which almost all organized labor unions will teach you for no cost other than your commitment through apprenticeship). You can use the fair compensation provided for your labors to gain land, water purification systems, wind turbines, electrolyzers, fuel cells; in short you don't have to stay in urban purgatory indefinitely.

"Well we could start by realizing that jobs turn our bodies into a debt that we must work to repay. Our hunger, our biological need for a warm place to sleep is used against us.. Our own bodies, our very own biological processes, are used as leverage to FORCE us to work."

This previous line right here is borderline retarded. Hunger forces every damn creature under the sun to get off their ass and find sustenance. This is not some diabolical plan being perpetrated by 'the man', this is life. You don't eat, you drop dead. That is reality, nothing more or less.

"Now what has happened since the abolition of slavery?"

Mainly people are no longer held in bondage unless of course they are foolish enough to put themselves in debt and then well you only have yourself to blame.

I understand the op wants to be free which is a wonderful concept, but sorry pal you have to get your hands dirty. If you want a better tomorrow then start building it today. No one, absolutely no one is forcing you to spend your income on consumer goods. My Grandmother for example was a subsistence farmer during the Great Depression, she was so poor they never knew the difference. You can go get a few acres in West Virginia with no paved roads or plumbing and do that very thing right now for almost nothing. But you want more you say? Then work for it. Be the change you wish to see in the world. I don't think you will change anything laying down. Oh and You have a choice, you can give up and die at any point, or live as a hobo. The more you want in this world of wonders, the more you labor for it. Its not evil, its just economics. Sure there is corruption but that is the way of the world for as long as anyone knows. You are not owned unless you sell yourself. We all have the means to claw ourselves out of debt but you damn well better learn to do something useful to other folks so that you can trade your skill and labor for other goods. Short of that you need to develop a damn good skill set that will allow you to live off the land, but you wont be getting any of the wonderful toys that the modern world produces with these god forsaken jobs.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I'm getting out of the system, lost my job 2 years ago and couldnt find anything else and now i'm playing poker for a living

It's hard but its the only thing i could think of that doesnt involve me working for a slavemaster (something i REALLY didnt want anymore after becoming unemployed), and i can do it from home, from behind my pc.

In the end im satisfied. I'm definately not rich because of it but i'm managing.

Maybe an idea for other people, look around, be inspired. Working for a boss isnt the ONLY option.

Though i still believe that simply living comfortably should be possible for free in modern day society.

Originally posted by BeWise
Don't know if anyone has posted this but here it goes. It does follow the same idea of working for money but it Argentina found a way to create a system without money.

Check this out.

youtu.be...

That is brilliant! Thank you for posting this, hope some more here will watch it too.
A personal currency for the people, by the people, of the people, fantastic!
I have been thinking/planning/mental sketching, (and you've just added another dimension to it) along the same lines for self sufficient aged care facilities and retirement villages here is Aus. They are going to be the most vulnerable in our future bad money situations, but are absolutely an untapped resource of knowledge and experience.
Thanks again
A

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by clearmind
i belive it is a purposefull dumbing down of society..keep the masses too busy to be concernd about the world, learning useless skill sets that only pertain to thier individual jobs and have no real use outside of that job...........

I'd like to know who started this dumbing down. It seems to have started with the schools and the media. It seems the people perpetuated it by demanding less mental stimulation. Somewhere along the line, the "work ethic" was promoted as god. If we thought the job market was full of useless jobs, we were lazy communists. Country music, patriotism, and religion bloomed. We were masterfully programmed us to make us want to fight for our slavery.

The dumbing down starts with every parent.
2nd

Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Originally posted by doobydoll

My savings were used up on living expenses before my home was repossessed and weren't 'taken' away, my apologies for my mistake there. It was meant to read by the time my home was repo'd, my savings were gone.

Do you think that I, and people like myself, after they have worked hard and paid taxes for years, should be offered no help at all when circumstances change for the worse? If not, why not? If yes, what are you whining about?

YES if you have paid into a system YES you should of been entitled to benefits of that system. However I do have one question for you. Instead of using that savings to pay the bills would of it been better to fix the car so you could continue to work? I mean you knew you would eventually run out of money. You could of used the savings to fix the car and supplement your income.

I was fired from my job in January because my car broke down, and I needed a car to actually do the job, I was a delivery driver.

I am just saying...

edit on 14-9-2011 by the4thhorseman because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2011 by the4thhorseman because: (no reason given)

I DID spend some of it on repairs to the damn car, it was hardly ever out of the damn shop for months before it died. It was a nail from the outset.

I didn't have much in the way of savings, and had reserved much of it for a replacement central heating boiler - it was the middle of winter and I had been miserable and ill for weeks with no heating (except for a gas fire in one room) and no hot water.

The car was seized rigid and once again wasn't going anywhere. It would have cost a fortune and I didn't have it. I had lost too many shifts at work because it was unreliable, and the wolves were at the door because my utilities were late. Local authority taxes were late. The mortgage was late. I was always putting the car first and postponing bills. I was getting nowhere. But the bills had backed up and I was forced to pay them.

Some will say I did it all wrong, maybe I did, but it's done now, so hang me.

At the end of it, all I can say is - I am GLAD I am free of the worry. My home was repo'd and it feels GREAT now I don't have a millstone mortgage around my neck. I am ECSTATIC that I am no longer chasing my tail trying to keep the damn wolves from my door. I am happier now than I've been for the longest time, and anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my lily-white arse.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Sadly, you couldn't be more wrong. Thanks to innovations in computational power and 3D printing, more then half of the remaining jobs will be gone in 10-12 years. You can barely see it -- like the impact of the Internet in 1989 -- but it is on the horizon. The final breakthrough will come when the raw materials to build just about anything can be purchased as cheaply as bandwidth, and that is just around the corner, figuratively speaking. Salespeople? Storefronts? Retail? Gone (or reduced to a fraction when only certain specialty items are manufactured and sold under the old paradigm). And construction? Fergitaboutit. Robots and nano-swarms will do that cheaper as well.

Beyond that is "the big crunch:", when rudimentary AI removes the need for managers, project managers, engineers, research scientists, doctors, lawyers, and most other professions. That moment is probably 20-25 years away, and at that point, there will be more people on the planet then every moment in history, combined, but only enough "work" for about 0001% of them.

Don't look down.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I completely, 100% agree with you. While I'm in my early 20's, it saddens me that i've already come to notice our slave society. It pains me to know that i still have a good 50 years to try and fight the system.

People continuously tell me "you need a job", "what job do you want to get", "you gotta study so you can get a job".

But i refuse to believe that i need to become a slave for my entire life so i can survive, that is #ing stupid. I work for a supermarket, the most simplistic of jobs, providing food to people. I hate uniforming myself for their multi-billion dollar company. I do not want to spend my time, making money for someone else, just so i can survive off the most bare essentials.

Is there a solution to this? Of course there is, but when only a very small minority are aware of our sleep walking slave race, the minority cannot make a difference, as it is all of society that needs to join as one and share, take out the monetary system.

I envy the small handful of people that live free. That number is small, you would not even be able to find them if you looked.