Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

reply to post by Mcupobob


Hi there,

sorry to burst your bubble but the "super phone" won't be invented especially because of money. Why sell something that wont break and don't need maintenance? It's not profitable for the seller, so the big companies even if they had such a phone wouldnt sell that because its a one time deal. They don't want "satified" customers, they want customers that pay bills over and over again. Greeeeeeeed is the key.. (unfortunately)

By the way, i love some of the solutions some of you providing. Don't stop the good work! (free work!!

Peace out.

The world is too filled. You could have a trade society if you were in small tribal groups but not in this mess we currently live in. So short of the expulsion of 6 billion + people world wide I don't see things improving any time soon.
Now take the below figures and attach them to all other countries but in most cases double or triple the inequalities. We are so screwed as is the whole world. Greedy billionaires and banks and corporations have run this world into a # hole to say the lest. To all those that are currently employed...don't hold on to hard to that idea, prepare now because you may find yourself jobless and without any benefit from Daddy GOV.
www.businessinsider.com...-gap-between-the-top-001-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-big-since-the-r oaring-twenties-1

reply to post by doctornamtab


i just want to thank you for posting this. i think about this every single day, and it sickens me. we shouldn't have to slave ourselves over money just to ensure that we have food and shelter. and i'm so tired of seeing all these new subdivisions being built when we have plenty of homes that are already vacaant and waiting to be lived in, but we've been tought that if you can't afford something, you don't deserve it. what i'm wondering is, how do we change this way of living? any suggestions?

reply to post by 2manyquestions


I wouldn't deny it. I'm just the canary in the coal mine. The system is rigged so that every year since 1986 there are fewer and fewer jobs paying at subsistence level, and though we are still -- for the most part -- handed paychecks on a regular basis, we pay it all back, just to live, and then we pay a little bit more. This is called "debt." As this system winds down, fewer and fewer people are going to be employed -- meaningfully or not -- at this subsistence level, and we can no longer sustain the "debt."

Ergo -- folks that are still employed -- gainfully or not -- and are paid well for it, will pay a larger and larger portion in taxes to cover the interest on this debt. This will continue until automation and other efficiencies render their jobs obsolete as well, and then we will have nothing, owe everything, and have no way to pay any of it across, down or back.

Add to that the overall aging of the population -- especially in the US -- and you have a recipe for disaster. Aging workforce's will be replaced by automation in many cases, especially in ones we have a hard time imagining are vulnerable to these efficiencies. This has been a constant since 1986.

What we need are radical solutions (soul-utions?) because the current paradigm won't work beyond a mere decade or so. It will literally reduce most people to serfdom in the short term, and at the point -- all solutions are very bleak.

Originally posted by romanmel
My friend did not steal from anyone.

Please explain how syphoning gas from people's cars is not theft.

Hitchhikers were asked to chip in on the gas.

i.e. they were asked to pay for stolen goods sold to them.

The Salvation Army was there to do what they did.

The Salvation Army was not created as a motel chain for a spoiled bunch of petty thieves on a tourist trip through the country.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by doobydoll
I am happy living a simple life - and it feels great to be off the treadmill.

Someone is on that treadmill and working their arses off to subsidize your housing, dear

/thread.

reply to post by bigwig22


So your saying if someone invented a indestructible phone then they wouldn't sell it? I mean it would put other phone business out for good(Depending on the quality it has in other fields and for the sake of argument it'll be superior). People would be buying that person phone for better quality, future generations would also buy said phone. People would only buy thats person phone.

So yes greed is the key.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by tom1701
Typical ATS....pages and pages of useless dribble.......

What did your post add to the discussion?

Best as I can tell, that was a confession of his own post.
Carry on....

reply to post by des92



The answer might be in the problem itself. A lot of people think this, but like you said, you don't dare say it openly because "a person who doesn't want to work is a slacker and deserves to go without." Which is a bunch of hooey. Present us with some jobs that don't suck, and I would be ok even with that.

But again, this is common ground. I hate to imply some kind of revolt because there are probably too many crazy people on both sides for that to work. But if a seed can be planted in enough intelligent, creative minds, who knows what could happen?

Originally posted by sapien82
It is therefore my personal belief that the human race , should be bio engineered so that we have photosynthesising bacteria or cells in our skin so that we can harness the energy of the sun , without much requirement for food.

This if done correctly would alter dramatically our dependence on solid food.
People all over the world would be able to get energy from just walking outside.

we have apparently already had our DNA altered so many times by aliens , that this would be the next logical step , and would most likely save our planet from starvation , we would no longer need to kill animals or farm vast quantities of vegetables . all we would have to do is just make sure not to have a nuclear winter to block out the sun .

Symbiosis already works in nature. a post about a sea slug here on ATS , was shown that it had ate that much algae that it has eventually developed a symbiosis with the algae and now it no longer has to eat to survive , it can develop energy through photosynthesis .

I believe that this would bring the human race closer to harmony with nature

In a world where we wouldn't need to eat, this whole "do whatever you want whenever you want" attitude would be more likely to happen....maybe. Even without the sun, we still have technology to help us along. On a cloudy day or indoors we'd have lamps to feed us.

Of course there's still the issue of who would do or make all the other things that we find necessary? We'd still need someone to perfect and build such lamps, roads, and all the other services and products not associated with us eating to live. There's still work to be done if we wish to be comfortable and have better quality lives.

I have seen people questioning how we will acquire things in our new society. I haven't seen anyone asking about where we will get the energy. Does this mean we can all finally agree that free and renewable sources are viable?

reply to post by switching yard


See, that's what I'm talking about! If you can't find a job, create your own. My aunt makes a living in Saigon by making Pho and selling it outside her house. My mom makes a living by cutting hair for friends and neighbors in her salon (my dad built a salon in their house). My dad makes a living doing work in people's homes. Not for a company, but for friends' and neighbors. I work for a small non-profit called City Carshare that let's people that don't have cars be able to easily borrow a car from us and pay by the hour. But I also spend my time tutoring English to International college students.

If it's hard to find a way to do this where you live, moving is always an option. It's pretty nice here in Buffalo. Winter might be rough, but it has lots of nice small businesses. Me and my partner buy bread from a local bread share. We buy our garden supplies from a local garden share. We do our banking at a local credit union. And we buy our vegetables straight from a farm. We sometimes can our own vegetables so we have fresh ones for the winter. We don't own a car because we use the car from our local car share.

The idea of a bread share/garden share might seem odd to some. So if you're unfamiliar, they are organizations that allows the community to bake bread or raise plants and all of the money and proceeds go back to the people who put the work in helping that organization. For example, at the car share, if you can't afford to rent the vehicle, you can donate time cleaning cars that will allow you to have time to rent it. There is another local group called Roof Raisers. If you don't have money to improve your home, you can donate time to improve someone else's home, and the group keeps track how much time you put in, and they'll help you with your home when you need it. No money is exchanged in that instance, it's all part of good will.

So yeah, it sounds like what I'm talking about is what a lot of people are looking for, but can't find in their community. They can organize and create these things in their community if they wanted to, but there are a lot of homes in Buffalo for as little as $10,000 if you want to participate in the already established ones over here.

Originally posted by bigwig22
reply to post by Mcupobob

 

Hi there,

sorry to burst your bubble but the "super phone" won't be invented especially because of money. Why sell something that wont break and don't need maintenance? It's not profitable for the seller, so the big companies even if they had such a phone wouldnt sell that because its a one time deal. They don't want "satified" customers, they want customers that pay bills over and over again. Greeeeeeeed is the key.. (unfortunately)

By the way, i love some of the solutions some of you providing. Don't stop the good work! (free work!!

Peace out.

Even if they could invent a super-phone, it would be obsolete within a year or two. As technology improves, a super-phone of today will not be so super even three years from now. We don't have all the answers and we don't have the ultimate technology no matter how advanced we are today. So...... the idea of producing products that will last you a lifetime is a fantasy. Physically they may survive and function for a long time, but they will be outperformed by new technology when it comes along. I've got a three year old phone that still looks like new, and works great. Despite this, there are new phones out there that now have more functions that I might fight useful. It's not necessary for me to upgrade, but I'm certainly thinking about it.

reply to post by buddhasystem


At the very least, read my post. Nothing was said about stealing gas from someone else's car...your imagination is running wild. It is not nice to accuse someone of somthing you cannot prove.

Have a good day.

I agree, and there isnt much to add.

I don't make a lot and am quite poor with a family. But that doesnt matter long as I have enough money to get by. I don't need excess money, only the amount that people demand from me to give me the things I need.

If I could grow my own food, I'd still have to pay rent. The housing/food guillotine is the perfect set up for people who make money on us.
BTW
On my trips exploring I've seen quite a few Obamavilles along the river..

Gee isn't socialism great. I'll tell you what. I won't be working to pay for people's pensions. I won't be working for some slave job that pays my rent and gives me food. I won't be paying no tax on what little I do bother making, and this system can live with that fact because I never will --> I refuse to support the scummy, #ty system I truely hate with all of my being. Human kind can do much better than this, unfortunately all people ever do is talk rarely if ever do I hear of another who has decided to do the same. Time to put salt on this parasite! I've gladly wasted their money but now I simply want nothing to do with them, AT ALL.

Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

Fabulous post - S&F

I was fired from my job in January because my car broke down, and I needed a car to actually do the job, I was a delivery driver. I am 53 and no matter what job I applied for I never even got any response from any of them. My home was repo'd last month, I had no savings, but I did have an occupational pension of £360 per month which I became entitled to when my late husband died over 20 years ago.

Surely, I thought, one cannot live on £360 per month, can they? I had to try.

I contacted my local authority to ask for social housing and related my predicament, only to be told I wasn't priority (immigrants and single mums are priority) and I would have to rent privately. I approached my MP who wrote a letter to the local housing authority to support me, and I also contacted the local press, all this placed pressure on the housing authority to help me. After 6 weeks of my badgering them through one way or another I was at last offered a home.

I pay minimal rent, minimal council tax, I buy cheaper brand food and never buy more than I need, I am careful with how I use gas and electricity, I don't ever go out socialising, but guess what? I am living on £360 per month! Ok I don't have luxuries, but I have found I can live without them. I don't need a car - I have legs that work just fine. I don't need a new TV - the old one shows the same TV prog's as a new one would. I don't need luxury, fancy food to survive - I don't starve without these things. That is all they are, just THINGS. I walk my dog more often than I used to in order to get out of the house - my dog and I are much healthier getting out in the fresh air several times a day.

All this I benefit from since I lost my job, and instead of wallowing in self-pity and feeling like life isn't worth living just because I cannot buy things, I have found my life is much more relaxed and slower, and I have begun to appreciate the things in life that money cannot buy - life, love and nature.

There IS a life without the things you don't need.

I am happy living a simple life - and it feels great to be off the treadmill.

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

At the very least, read my post. Nothing was said about stealing gas from someone else's car...

How much gas will the $13 buy? This, as you said, was the total amount of money the thieves had, and for the rest they took a syphon with them. Was that syphon a magic cornucopia of gas?

if that were true then what choices do you think will be available to the next generation when the big business conglomerate owns everything in sight? A human that is not owned by in a world that is entirely owned and privatized is the same thing as slavery.

Originally posted by Xaberz
What if jobs aren't inherently evil? What if our unhappiness stems from a place far deeper?

When we think about jobs being bad, it comes from us being unhappy about our lives. If we were completely satisfied with our lives we would not feel that our jobs were bad. In fact, jobs can be very useful. In one light, jobs can be seen as a way to make money, but in another light, jobs can be seen as us working to help others. A teacher helps students learn. A nurse helps patients feel better. A store manager helps a store make money, which entail helps employees keep their job. Even someone who proofreads financial statements helps by making sure an aspect of the business is running smoothly, which entail helps employees keep their jobs.

So, every job has a purpose to help others, but sometimes or even oftentimes what our job is helping is not how we want to help the world. For example, helping a corporation that treats its employees unfairly is probably not how we want to feel useful in our lives. This can easily be fixed through change. Simply change your job. Changing your job might not be a simple process, however, if you break it down step by step, it does become simple. Reflect on your life what you feel is important in the world. Look for jobs that reflect that idea. Apply yourself to those jobs. More than likely that will require a big financial sacrifice, but as doobydoll beautifully illustrates, it can be done.

If you like gardening and seeing your hard work create something beautiful on the earth, there might be families living on the same block as you willing to pay you to build their garden. If you love cooking, and every time someone takes a bite of your famous recipe a smile lights up on their face, you can sell it to people, either through a local store or your own home-delivery service. If you love being around dogs, you can set up your own dog-sitting or dog-walking business. I see people do these things all the time, and if you are wise and intelligent you can do it too.

Maybe it's not jobs that make us feel like slaves. Maybe its the choices that we make that makes us feel like slaves. And if you want to get rid of the unhappiness in your life, then change the things in your life that are making you unhappy.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I wouldn't deny it. I'm just the canary in the coal mine. The system is rigged so that every year since 1986 there are fewer and fewer jobs paying at subsistence level, and though we are still -- for the most part -- handed paychecks on a regular basis, we pay it all back, just to live, and then we pay a little bit more. This is called "debt." As this system winds down, fewer and fewer people are going to be employed -- meaningfully or not -- at this subsistence level, and we can no longer sustain the "debt."

I believe that everything eventually balances out, whether that be a peaceful resolution or a violent one. You can only push a people so far before they rebel and change the system to suit them. OR they adapt to their new environment! The amount of pay you receive is a reflection of your expertise, the need for your expertise, the ease or difficulty with which you are replaced, and the number of people who share your expertise and experience. If you have not taken the steps to become difficult to replace, your paycheck will reflect this. Generally factory jobs (unless unionized) will pay less than other jobs, because they do not have a steep learning curve.

The debt you are referring to is the cost of living. You work to survive. If you worked on a farm to produce your own food and shelter, unless you produced extra food for the purpose of selling or bartering, you wouldn't have many luxuries around you even though you work your a$$ off every day of your life. In today's society you work from 9 to 5, you get your paycheck, and then you're free to buy the food you want, buy the luxuries and products you want, go on vacation where you want to go. If you were to work on a farm, you wouldn't be able to just pick up and go, you couldn't just stop working at 5:00PM unless you had other people working for you, in which case you'd have to produce extra in order to be able to pay these people who are helping you out.

There is no rule which says you have to go into debt. There are people out there who don't acquire debt, yet still live comfortable lives. It's not easy to learn to live that way, but it can be accomplished. The bottom line is that if you want to survive, if you want to live in moderate luxury, you have to work one way or another to achieve it. If you don't like the way a boss treats you, you can either unionize, or you can become an entrepreneur and start your own business.

Ergo -- folks that are still employed -- gainfully or not -- and are paid well for it, will pay a larger and larger portion in taxes to cover the interest on this debt. This will continue until automation and other efficiencies render their jobs obsolete as well, and then we will have nothing, owe everything, and have no way to pay any of it across, down or back.

Your outlook on life seems pretty bleak, with no room for change. People can't expect the world not to change around them. Jobs will come and go depending on a societies need for them. People have to realize that nothing is etched in stone, and they must be prepared for change. If we have a lot of debt, it's because of the people we continue to vote into office. We let them get away with creating this debt that becomes almost impossible to pay off. Politicians have created their own version of heaven in D.C. They created BIG Government and a bureaucratic mess that covers up their corrupt and greedy practices. They have created thousands of Government jobs, which means thousands of people depend on the Government and the tax payer for their paychecks, which means there's a battle of private vs. government employees. One says they are taxed too much, the other side says it's not enough.

What we need are radical solutions (soul-utions?) because the current paradigm won't work beyond a mere decade or so. It will literally reduce most people to serfdom in the short term, and at the point -- all solutions are very bleak.

edit on 14-9-2011 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)

A society must shed the jobs that it does not need. Sometimes this takes a long time for it to happen, but eventually it does. People have to learn to adapt to their new environment. When we no longer need human labor in a factory, those people will have to learn a new skill set to survive. Being able to adapt quickly is a huge advantage to anyone who is faced with drastic change. As one poster mentioned, entrepreneurship is one way. It's harder to do for the older generations of course, so those who are too old to make these changes need to be taken care of either by their own families, or by their community if necessary.

Oddly I have been thinking this for a while now myself.

So what is the Answer? A giant Welfare state? NO
Total self reliance? NO not completely possible for reasons stated as you cannot do it all (why we became a group, village, town, city, nation...)

This maybe our generations or the next, biggest hurdle is what to do in this modern automated future.
I hope that many would pursue Arts and culture or Sciences with an ethical decision making process.
But my biggest fear is that this will take a huge change that many are not willing to give up their lifestyles for (maybe myself included). And this change could be too traumatic…