Anders Behring Breivik, the Norway killer

www.adressa.no...

The Labour Party has lawyers representing the party in this case. What sort of charges is he getting that a political party gets representation at a criminal trial for murder and bombing?

They are arguing against a public case.

They are of course concerned about him getting a podium. Do you think that if he were as crazed as Loughner, that they would be concerned about how he might come off to people? I doubt it.

So apparently he isn't a drooling crazy smile wide-eyed wierdo. Then he'd probably be allowed to have as much TV time as he could possbly soak up before they had to escort him out.

As I seem to have come under some extra scrutiny again, I think I'd like to point something out.

I am the most fundamentally real Classical Liberal following a classical liberal ideology. All those people who are merely pretending to liberal beliefs are freaking SILENT because they don't like someone who is not popular.

There are existing real issues here about fundamental rights in Liberal Democracies. There are schisms in liberal ideological thought, where a "free" society here has literally tried to ape the actions of a liberal democracy without ever having adopted the fundamental principals of one.

There are errors in jurisprudence, and clearly a system that is convinced so much of its own rectitude that it imagines itself to be without need of being held to a standard. In doing so that system is absolutely courting errors in liberal rights of the accused and the right to a realistic defense and a trial amoungst peers.

You imagine I need to be kept an eye on? You bet I do. There is something insanely wrong in the Liberal Democracies of the World right now that the "most peaceful" nation is pushing someone who WANTED to be Classical Liberal into fighting back against the wall of Correctness, and that the conservative center of Canada is spawning people who are of differing political preferences into becoming global advocates of Human Liberties.

You feel free to keep an eye on me. I hope you learn something, because I will NOT comply with this stupidity.

www.adressa.no...

- In interviews, he has been very clear that he has deleted material. It should have happened right before the terrorist attack. Whether it is correct, we must find out, said police attorney Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby.

Seriously? What, like 10 weeks later?

Of course he deleted it fully.

He remembered to poison his bullets individually, but the IT guy just forgot to delete his hard drive fully. I expect literally nothing to come of this.

Maybe he used it to watch some pron upon re-install. That'll be useful. Maybe you'll get lucky, and he's into she-males. You could make some hash out of that.

Originally posted by Aeons
www.dagbladet.no...

Notice the propaganda picture trying to visually link the Progress Party to Utoya again. Still N-I-C-E. I'm mean seriously - props on the chutzpah. Don't be contained by the charges levelled at you - prove him right. Nothing bad could happen from that.

I totally take this back. I have confused the logos of the two parties. Mea Culpa.

Jumping around in multiple languages that I'm not fluent in gets me on sometimes. Got be more careful about cross checking!

Just querying why the Killers name is featured in this thread title?

If the number of replies in this thread is an indication this Killer of epic proportions and evil (they were innocent kids with their futures snuffed out) is going to fulfil his aim.
He is going to be discussed and the motive discussed for decades.
He is almost saying he is a sacrifice for the west against Islam.
In a horribly perverse way , we may see him viewed upon by a future population as a martyr?
With all respect ...his name shouldn't be in title?
Evil insane mass murderer of Children should be in the title instead?

derstandard.at...

derStandard.at: Nils Anders Behring Breivik Minkmar described in the FAS exaggerated "first open-source 2.0-Nazi terrorists". The assassin lay tracks on the Net, tinkered from Internet sources manifesto published under the rules of the remix or mashup culture. It would describe as "cyber warriors" inappropriate for you?

I thought this was certainly worth note. Now, Breivik isn't a Nazi, but otherwise this description is pretty interesting...and funny.

derStandard.at: After the deed was not in Norway, but loud voices in Germany and Austria to tighten grid relevant laws. Terrorist attacks can be prevented by the continuous monitoring of our online behavior?

Referencing that more countries are looking to put online behaviour into the sphere of constant monitoring.

How many of you think that you are truly anonymous online? You aren't. Unless you are taking radical steps to be anonymous (and many of the "tools" for this aren't that great) you aren't. And that these countries are all looking at more active monitoring should make it more obvious to you that they don't find linking you to your activities overly complex.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Just querying why the Killers name is featured in this thread title?

If the number of replies in this thread is an indication this Killer of epic proportions and evil (they were innocent kids with their futures snuffed out) is going to fulfil his aim.
He is going to be discussed and the motive discussed for decades.
He is almost saying he is a sacrifice for the west against Islam.
In a horribly perverse way , we may see him viewed upon by a future population as a martyr?
With all respect ...his name shouldn't be in title?
Evil insane mass murderer of Children should be in the title instead?

A goodly number of the replies on this thread are mine alone. I am using this thread as a touch point for aggregation of media from many sources in many languages. I acknowledge that some people, maybe even most people, would be put off by this.

"For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." -H. L. Mencken

Already this event has started the ball rolling on expanding oppressive laws. This deserves to be watched.



He has a name. His crime stands regardless of if you remove his humanity due to it being inconvenient to your sensibilities.

Let him own his crime. Fully. Personally.

Without moving him back into being a cartoon character by giving him a goofy handle.

As to if his ideas stand - that's not up to you. You and the victims don't get to determine what others may access.

If something being potentially a bad violent meme with plenty of victims was the standard upon which ideas were allowed to be disseminated, then pretty much all political and religious media for all of history should be censored too.

The victims of his crimes remain his victims regardless of the fact that he existed and that he bothered to write his ideas down.

You presume that access to his writing will make him seem more heroic. It might. It might do the opposite. Many people have been launched to further interest by being suppressed. Indeed Breivik thought that this would be immediately suppressed.

(Instead, it appears to have been lightly edited before mass distribution to remove some links.)

It is rather likely that by suppressing his writings you would make him one. Anders Breivik's ideas aren't all that wild. He's actually pretty reasonable right up until he gets to his how to guide on insurrection.

I have debated thousands of people more radical than Anders Breivik in the first two books of 2083. In being suppressed, that very reasonability would make him far more dangerous in my personal opinion. In not being suppressed, the dissonance of the juxtaposition of his reasonability with the extreme content of the third book is more apt to strike people as vastly odd. Bringing someone along for a nice country ride, ended with a nuclear dirty bomb.

Are they martyr material? Well, that'll completely depend on the actions of governments and peoples.

reply to post by Aeons


When someone who murders children by the score is branded heroic . by any sane populace..then we will know Jesus died in vain on the cross.

I cannot help getting the impression you are fascinated with this killer.

And by that Iam not saying you are supportive of him, in any way.
But similarly many people are fascinated in Hitler, and Stalin, many Hollywood types in fact try and glorify Stalin even though he signed the deaths of millions of human beings whether indirectly or directly.

The danger in relation to the Norway mass murderer is ....he acted so coldly logical in relation to his targets.

He inflicted the worst imaginable pain on the Parents/sisters/brothers/Grandparents/boyfriends/girlfriends/friends of every single victim...yes who talks about that?

He by a cowardly despicable act on children attempted to influence a Government Policy.

He is a murderer of children....end of story.

Nothing else can be the crux of this issue....nothing.

Else ...goodness is gone from this Earth.

I am fascinated by Anders Breivik.

I've also read fairly extensively for a non-academic on Hitler, and Stalin. I don't think that their crimes should preclude me from accessing their information either. I have a wide variety of interrelated interests, and Anders Breivik is sitting in a spot that cross-sects quite a few of them.

The thing I'm most fascinated by is something I can't explain to you, but you may rest assured it isn't actually relevant to his crime. Or his looks, as I'm sure that would be the next thought.

I believe his victims deserve as much help as they can access. If I could take away what has happened to them I would.

I won't pretend something doesn't exist and doesn't have political impact because it isn't popular.

Seeing Anders for what he is won't wash away all goodness in the Universe. Indeed, as a Christian you are obligated to hope that God looks upon him with Mercy.

reply to post by Aeons


You are correct we all require Gods mercy .
When this mass murderer realises what he has done within his soul...and repents he will know God .

But his soul will have to face the souls of the slain in another dimension of time and location, they will require Gods grace to forgive....so they can move on....totally.

It is not a thought crime as you say to be interested in Evil personalities and their deeds....but you should be careful ...if only for your own souls sake.
Hitler fascinates many many people of all intelligence/backgrounds...sadly he is seen by some ....as an underdog ...who hasn't watched a ww2 movie and just once rooted for the Germans?

So in effect his persona has continued to seduce and hypnotise .

But examine his deeds.

He attempted to fulfil his goals/beliefs by murder and evil methods.

In the end his virtues were erased by his desire to win at all costs.

Similarly this Norway murderer ' just threw all decency and respect for his fellow man out of the window in order to fulfil his wish/desire/plan.

Whether he wins depends on all of us reminding ourselves and the world that he killed innocent Children with a gun.

Anders isn't the only one who has read Nietzsche. I promise to be careful about dancing on the abyss.

Before this happened, I already had more in common with him than I could ever have possibly imagined. Clearly, all those similarities haven't made me into a mass murderer, nor will they.

I'll be very careful about taking the baby out of the bathwater.

Seeing the crimes in Mogadishu doesn't make me want to bomb children either. It'll be okay.

reply to post by Aeons


Perhaps the abyss is only reached by a lack of understanding?
Some assume that others lack the understanding they lack themselves?
Reach the abyss and find the truth by looking deep into its blackness, but there are other methods.
You know Hitler was a rebel of the highest order...he just didn't realise he became his own worst enemy...and ultimately his beloved Germanys worst enemy.

Isolation does that to people.
And extreme ambition.
All the photos of the Norwegian mass child killer reveal someone who is alone and seperate.
He basically thought very narrow..and selfishly...it is evident by his actions.
This thread has no life ...just death...can you see that?

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Just querying why the Killers name is featured in this thread title?

If the number of replies in this thread is an indication this Killer of epic proportions and evil (they were innocent kids with their futures snuffed out) is going to fulfil his aim.
He is going to be discussed and the motive discussed for decades.
He is almost saying he is a sacrifice for the west against Islam.
In a horribly perverse way , we may see him viewed upon by a future population as a martyr?
With all respect ...his name shouldn't be in title?
Evil insane mass murderer of Children should be in the title instead?

This thread was created to find and share more information about this case in the hope we might learn something from it.
I do not think it would help if we feel we need to censor all sort of information, i think it is good to openly discuss the information.
Even if we would hear from people who might think what Anders Behring Breivik was good, this way we might learn why some one would think they need to take action like he did and maybe learn how to counter their ideas with real arguments and not just emotional reactions.

Censorship will never erase ideas but real arguments could.
Publishing his name in the thread title means that people could more easy find the information posted here.
And erasing for example Adolf Hitlers name from the history books would not erase his actions.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
This thread has no life ...just death...can you see that?

Life and death go hand in hand, there would be no death without life.
Ignoring evil or death would not make it go away, it would just move out of sight and from there it could do much more harm that out in the open.

reply to post by jaamaan


You talk about logical real arguments as opposed to emotive reponses to his barbarity.
He acted out perfectly his plan to fulfil his stance.
That is what is so evil.
cold blooded evil.

There is no logical argument to defeat his logic.
Just human decency matters here.
The soul that attempts not to cause harm to others no matter the cost.
We all have hurt other souls..but we cannot within our hearts justify it by logic if we wish to keep our own souls.
It doesn't matter what his aims/motives were he murdered children with a gun.
After a long period of planning.
But of course he is still alive isn't he whilst the kids are dead.

Yeah strange that....real integrity to a cause...kill scores of unarmed children for a cause and surrender to the Police...because hey he wants to keep living.......wants to keep living...wants to stay alive.

Did any of those kids want to die?
Did any of those kids want to die?
End of story..end of thread.

Your perfect model creates more people like Anders Breivik, not fewer.

I won't be stopping, even if it offends you that I refuse to act in a way that you define for me.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
End of story..end of thread.

I understand your response but i do not agree with every thing you say.
Anders Behring Breivik did a very bad thing and he is not the only one, many bad things have been done over the ages.
I think we can try and learn from bad things people do and have done.

When we say something is bad or evil, i like to know why it is bad or evil besides just stating that it is.
If we can not explain why something is bad than how can we learn from it or teach our children.

Just stating that something is evil "End of story..end of thread" is not going to work in the long run i believe.
How is it evil and how could this evil thing start and evolve.
How can we prevent this from happening again.
Is only Anders Behring Breivik this evil or do we all have some evil sides that can be provoked into something similar.
When and why does some one starts action in this way.

Just stating 'End of story..end of thread" is maybe not very far from the reasoning that Anders Behring Breivik used.
I believe life is not just black and white, evil or good, there is a whole range of things in between.

Again, i do understand your response but i do not agree with all your conclusions.

The No True Scotsman argument doesn't fly well with every person.

www.vg.no...

What is the reason why Breivik not wishing to be photographed? - He has only said that he does not want it and that he will not cooperate.

He wants the photos that are out already to be used. That's why he provided them. That's why he deleted so many others. Other photos they are using now are him partying and childhood photos. I'm not sure that that was intentional, but it certainly humanizes him somewhat. It also directly flies in the face of the insistence on their "usual suspect" profile.

This seems to be frightening to some people. Preferring that people stick to the right monster script even if it is wrong is dangerous misinformation in the long run.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by jaamaan

 

There is no logical argument to defeat his logic.
Just human decency matters here.

Yeah strange that....real integrity to a cause...kill scores of unarmed children for a cause and surrender to the Police...because hey he wants to keep living.......wants to keep living...wants to stay alive.

There are logical arguments. He is standing in the very spot of weakness the First World societies are refusing to deal with. He was thrown out of extremist groups. He was blockaded out of normal debate processes. But he isn't a loner, unlike what you're putting out.

The logical argument is that there is a flaw being embraced, one that is actually absolutely contrary to liberal doctrine, and Breivik is a natural consequence of it. An inevitable consequence.

Where I live this error in liberal doctrine is also being embraced, and it is disturbing. But it looks like it hasn't gotten as far as it has in Europe. People from across the political spectrum are resistant.

I just assumed that the other liberal democracies would be the same. Now that I've started looking more closely, I see that this is not the case. If I known, I would have started attacking this error long ago.

Perhaps because we were actually deeply founded upon the ideas of the Enlightenment instead of just trying to adopt them when their dominance became clear like Norway has. Perhaps it is because we were founded and influenced so heavily by radicals, that we have some sort of cultural room for them.

People think that Breivik's ideas are his alone? They aren't. On one totally notable occasion, a male Wahabi lawyer when he realized how much I pay attention to what is happening in the World, he touched my forearm (this should astound people) and leaned in close to me and said very quietly, "You don't know what you have here. What you have is special. You don't understand, what you are up against. You don't understand what is happening."

He's not the only immigrant who upon finding that I wasn't so indoctrinated that became adamant to share their concerns with me. Our indoctrination is terrifying to some of the people who came here to get away from *THAT.*

There should be room for people like Breivik. That there isn't is a form of cultural insanity.

Embracing his solution isn't necessary, and is an error on his part. That he ended up THERE from his politically coherent place is alarming.

Originally posted by Aeons
www.vg.no...

What is the reason why Breivik not wishing to be photographed? - He has only said that he does not want it and that he will not cooperate.

See, I don't understand why the authorities are constantly putting out that they don't know why he did something or when it happened when it is in his book. I actually think that the people they have answering questions haven't read it, or even gotten an executive summary on it. Are they really that terrified that they might end up being "Thought Contaminated?"

Sexy projections of females sell and inspire, in peacetime and during war. There will
primarily be men taking most of the risks so it should be a priority to appeal to a
broadest selection of European males. Resistance leaders/cell commanders or individual
cell operatives must prioritise to arrange and book a professional photo session prior to
operation for one or all involved. Resistance leaders of larger networks should also
arrange photo sessions with female patriotic models to use in online
marketing/recruitment campaigns. It is essential that enough resources are invested into
marketing material in order to create a professional and appealing image of our struggle.
It is essential that cell commanders and/or cell operatives budget at least a portion of
their operational budget to photo sessions and remember to delete all other unfortunate
photos from the past. This is to prevent the media/police from getting access to them
and exploit them for their own propaganda. The police usually “leak” “retarded looking”
photos to the press after raiding the cells apartment after an operation. By removing and
deleting all “negative” photos, and by making available the professional, photo shopped
photos prior to the operation; we make their job significantly harder.
General marketing tips
- Use modern, stylish mainstream logos and material that will appeal to a maximum of
targets (poor material that looks unappealing will not benefit our cause)
- Use professional graphic designers (poor graphic/material will not benefit our cause)
- All models should be styled to look their best (a person who looks like a caveman (ref:
Osama) will have little appeal)
- Use professional makeup artists and use make up on both female and male models. Yes,
this sounds gay, but looking “attractive” will significantly benefit the impact of our message
as it will act as a force multiplier
- Use professional editing (photoshop) on all digital photos (You can hire a programmer on f
example: www.scriptlance.com to photoshop your pictures for less than 50 Euro).
Preparations required before a photo shoot
As a Justiciar Knight you will go into history as one of the most influential individuals of
your time. So you need to look your absolute best and ensure that you produce quality
marketing material prior to operation.
Prepare for the photo session;
- Take a few hours in a solarium to look fresher.
- Train hard (work out) at least 7 days prior to photo session
- Cut your hair shave
- Visit a male salon if possible and apply light makeup. Yes, I know – this might sound
repulsive to big badass warriors like us, but we must look our best for the shoot
- Use your best clothing – you can f example bring 3 different sets of clothing to the shot
location – 1. Dress, tie etc. 2. Casual wear 3. Sporty wear 4. Militaristic wear (obviously,
you can’t bring your guns or anything indicating that you are a resistance fighter). You
should always order the photo session in a foreign country to avoid that the personnel
alerts authorities. Always pay in cash and do not sign any receipt with your own name.
End note: Be very careful to have military shots lying around. Be very careful if you
decide to use pictures with guns. People who see these photos might alert the
authorities. Carefully consider the use of symbols as it might backfire. Cross of the
martyrs is fine (St. George) but avoid any symbol associated with Nazism.

A film about what happened on Utoya is being put out.

I would suggest being somewhat suspicious about it. It is likely to miss out on several key pieces of information, and may be a part of an attempt to direct people to not considering various pieces of information as they are not part of the accepted panorama they are providing.