Anders Behring Breivik, the Norway killer

www.vg.no...

Various pictures and a timeline. Suggest a grain of salt here.

One of the things I'm finding interesting in the photos over time - He's got blue eyes, hazel-brown eyes and green eyes in various pictures.

Now I know that some people's eyes change colour, but they usually aren't that bright steel blue then.

Hazel-brown and bright steel blue and clear green, isn't something I've ever seen before.

I'm married to someone whose eyes go from green to blue, I have a sister whose eyes go from grey to green, and mine go from brown to red (I've been told it's a bit unnerving), and my father's went from blue to bright blue after an accident. So I know eyes change.

But from steel blue to clear green to hazel brown? That's a pretty wide range.

Originally posted by Aeons
You know jamaan - I think the answer to your earlier question about masons is no. I think this may be intended as a grotesque parody of them by others.

He was a member of the masons, that has been documented, but there is no indication by me or the media etc that the attacks where connected to them other than the fact that he was one.
What i ment more in that other post was a possible connection to the 33 number, his age, in connection with the jezus story and his last 3 years up to 33, and the masons 33 degrees number.
Maybe there was something with the number 33 in Anders Behring Breivik his head.

Just thinking out loud, there is probably nothing to it, it just arrests my attention when this number 33 comes up.

Originally posted by Aeons
www.dagbladet.no...

A breakdown of where all his uniform bit and pieces came from. Earlier there were questions about this. Seems my suggestions are close to correct about how he obtained them. Not really that difficult.

Yes this seems most plausible how it was done, especially the self compiled uniform first shown in the article.
I know some people who do replay these historic battles in some large real life role play's and i have seem how the gather all their gear from all around the world from places like e-bay and specific webshops.

What struck me most where the pictures from the security camera's in Oslo where we see Anders Behring Breivik running from the bomb scene.
Maybe it is because of the blurry image but the uniform worn by Anders Behring Breivik in those images looked very identical to those of the real anti terrorist squads that was doing the bomb drill.
Again, most likely means nothing, but for me it is filed in case if find further reference.

Thanks for posting these constant updates, i respect your effort and you can be sure i read every word and most of the links.
Hopefully more people do.
I hoped that some people from Norway would join in sometimes but i guess they are mostly bussy on forums in their own language, i just think this case could use some more continuous international attention.

Originally posted by jaamaan

Originally posted by Aeons
You know jamaan - I think the answer to your earlier question about masons is no. I think this may be intended as a grotesque parody of them by others.

He was a member of the masons, that has been documented, but there is no indication by me or the media etc that the attacks where connected to them other than the fact that he was one.
What i ment more in that other post was a possible connection to the 33 number, his age, in connection with the jezus story and his last 3 years up to 33, and the masons 33 degrees number.
Maybe there was something with the number 33 in Anders Behring Breivik his head.

Just thinking out loud, there is probably nothing to it, it just arrests my attention when this number 33 comes up.

edit on 24-10-2011 by jaamaan because: quote error

Well, the media is still failing to report his correct age so it is possible that someone would really prefer no one make that same connection you are.

I find it an odd choice that they are going to try him on Easter week between Easter and Passover. So while I'd normally dismiss the coincidence of his age, I think your suggestion gains some ground with additional symbolic references cropping up. Keep an eye out. Two is suggestive, three allows for triangulation.

I don't necessarily link that with Masons. Lots of groups like their mystical symbology. I know they are a favourite kick toy, but that very fact makes them like the loose girl at the party - who believes her when she gets raped? No one. Being an easy target makes me always turn a skeptical eye on the "oh-my-god-its-the-masons" stuff.

I've half expected someone to come out and claim that Trond is the human sacrifice component of some European version of the Bohemian Grove. Seems that Europeans are way less prone to conspiratorial thinking than my American neighbours. When I see things like this it makes me wonder if this is an effect of the type of Europeans who were pushed to move to North America so there is a greater concentration of these type of people in the Dispora and leaving fewer of them to reproduce in the remaining populace reducing their numbers in the original population.

I do try to keep an eye on what the Norwegians are talking about amoungst themselves online. And the neighbouring nations who seem to have some who are interested in his message, or hate it. Just to see how this "deep event" effects people. I have no idea how to tempt them to come talk though.

I approve of the Norwegians doing everything they can to dissect everything with a rational eye. I look forward to seeing if this approach helps suck the poison out.

Originally posted by jaamaan
www.dagbladet.no... struck me most where the pictures from the security camera's in Oslo where we see Anders Behring Breivik running from the bomb scene.
Maybe it is because of the blurry image but the uniform worn by Anders Behring Breivik in those images looked very identical to those of the real anti terrorist squads that was doing the bomb drill.
Again, most likely means nothing, but for me it is filed in case if find further reference.

Me too. I highly doubt that is a coincidence, and I would lay money on someone he knows has a contact in the bomb squad who has loose lips. Perhaps that piece of information is what made him speed up his time line.

Gym monkey? Martial arts dojo? Those are my two top favourites based on the people I've found he has as friends.

Originally posted by Aeons
I've half expected someone to come out and claim that Trond is the human sacrifice component of some European version of the Bohemian Grove. Seems that Europeans are way less prone to conspiratorial thinking than my American neighbours.

When I see things like this it makes me wonder if this is an effect of the type of Europeans who were pushed to move to North America so there is a greater concentration of these type of people in the Dispora and leaving fewer of them to reproduce in the remaining populace reducing their numbers in the original population.

What is Trond, could you explain a little ?

I believe the conspiratorial thinking in Europe has been much more suppressed than in America.
The control of media and opinion runs quite deep, so deep that no one talks about it.
It is any why like that here where i come from, and i think it has been like that for a long time.

Originally posted by jaamaan

Originally posted by Aeons
I've half expected someone to come out and claim that Trond is the human sacrifice component of some European version of the Bohemian Grove. Seems that Europeans are way less prone to conspiratorial thinking than my American neighbours.

When I see things like this it makes me wonder if this is an effect of the type of Europeans who were pushed to move to North America so there is a greater concentration of these type of people in the Dispora and leaving fewer of them to reproduce in the remaining populace reducing their numbers in the original population.

What is Trond, could you explain a little ?

I believe the conspiratorial thinking in Europe has been much more suppressed than in America.
The control of media and opinion runs quite deep, so deep that no one talks about it.
It is any why like that here where i come from, and i think it has been like that for a long time.

Here too.

I'm not suggesting that's what happened. I've just been on these boards for long enough to anticipate where some of the people go, and think it is interesting that no one did and I suspect that it has to do with the populations involved.

Trond Berntsen was the first person that Behring Breivik shot on Utoya. The off duty police officier and the step brother of the crown princess.

It sounds like he was shot in front of his ten year old son. Brutal.

I'm going to start referring to him as Behring or Behring Breivik because he calls himself Anders Behring in his posts when not using a handle.

www.nrk.no...

Related political issue.

Bjørgo last data collection was completed in 2001, and he says it lacks new and extensive knowledge of new, emerging right-wing extremist groups.

Well, his methods were extreme.

However, as I've stated before he isn't extreme right-wing in my opinion. I've debated thousands and thousands of people more right wing than Anders Behring. I'm not exaggerating for effect here. I quite mean that.

I know some very sweet missionaries who are probably more right-wing than he is.

I find their ideas on what an extreme right-winger is to be highly suspect. Do they judge this on an international scale, or is this based on their personal politics and the relative left of center norm in Norway?

I haven't seen any follow up on the bomb recognizance. I wonder if they are going to say that he did it using Google Streetview.


www.nordlys.no...

Master of his message.

Breivik is not sure whether he will be interviewed.

He is fundamentally skeptical of all the journalists that he believes that virtually support cultural Marxism, which he considers to be the enemy. Therefore, he believes it will be tantamount to approving his own character murder if he did not set strict conditions, including approval of the question and that he will select images, to set an interview.

What I find very interesting about this is that he isn't sure. If he were a full out narcissistic pyschopath as is being floated, this wouldn't occur to him to worry about I believe. Or his self-control extends to controlling it too - which would be really something else. Or he has subsumed himself completely to his message, and so there is no distinction between the man and his message.

www.aftenposten.no...

- There is a huge apparatus to be inserted in such inspection, and we need to have a few ideas that we get something back for it. He was Asta farm for a long time, unlike Utøya. He has explained in great detail about all the planning, all he bought, how he made the bomb. Having sewn together everything we've heard, heard of bomb technicians and chemists, we are reasonably sure that what he says, right, says Hatlo to Aftenposten.no

They decided not to take Anders back to the farm.

I assume that they found he had the correct machinery for loading and unloading by himself.

Of course, to continue to use this interview technique would help set up an appeal later because their use of this interview technique clearly demonstrates that they have knowledge of his tendency to suggestible recall and without an independent review of their techniques from the defense they can't protect him from it.

From the pictures I've seen of the inside of the living area, I'm surprised that he didn't blow up the house. Ye Gods, what a pink monstrosity. If I had to live in that I might start developing some hard feelings towards women too. (Yes, I know I'm not taking this seriously enough. Consider this the blackest of black humour.)

It is probably too late now - I wanted to see pictures of his work area and his computer area and his room. Is he neat? What is on his bookshelf? Coffee cups and cigarettes about? But alas, if they have those they haven't published them. Maybe at the trial.

Is he still smoking in prison? Or has he taken the opportunity to quit?

Is he going to take the stand at the trial? If so, are his own lawyers going to treat him as a hostile witness to provoke him to bolster their case?

He's also requested more access to the gym and other exercise equipment. Apparently he is intending on cutting a fine figure when his trial comes up.


www.continentcontinent.cc...

A discussion on the madness and otherness of Anders Behring, and the urge of people to not see him as mad because that's safer for them psychologically. Fanciful. I wonder if they realize that they are a tad delusional.

The whole world just watched people sodomize and execute a dictator, machete blacks in Libya, and "arrest" then dump bodies of unarmed supporters of that dictator. These people are considered sane and a leading awesome force of great change in the World. The madness they are concerned about might be living in the "sane" persons and not just the persons who committed the atrocity and their ability to dissociate at will is tied only to their personal attachment to an idea.

I'm not sure that people even modify themselves enough to think that these actions are "gruesome but necessary." Seen by this standard, the fact that Anders Behring thinks that his crime is gruesome may actually make him slightly saner than a large amount of the bystander populace. But they get considered sane regardless. The sense of the romantic fantasy sitting in the perpetrator or the populace or both – like somehow the populace at large is the only real defining feature of what is sane.

Sanity check by election of the majority in fuzzily defined cultural entity? Sanity by popularity? Sanity by propaganda?

I don’t think he’s anymore insane than the “freedom fighters” of Al-Qaeda bombing the education ministry with youth looking for scholarships in Somalia. If the reference check for this is to one’s society, I would have to say that Anders Behring’s culture is merely more global than the people he is surrounded by. So if one’s cultural reference is the thing to which we can peg the standard of sanity of one’s actions, then the redefinition of his society brings him fully into the fold of currently defined sanity by cultural reference.

Or academics can stop trying to be apologists for non-white terrorists, and admit that there is an actual real concept of something that is wrong.

www.guleninstitute.org...

I would suspect that this excerpt of terrorist psychological types, this one is the closest. I would tend to view Anders Behring with a strong Jungian overlay. I think that this is could be well supported by his gaming, avatar like qualities, pagan mythological influence, and appeal to historical archetypes.

Freud’s Concept of Aggression
According to Freud, aggression stems from the life and death forces. The life force (Eros) and the death force (Thanatos) should be in balance. When a threat is perceived, the organism tries to create a balance by directing the Thanatos outward toward others. There is a relationship between life, sex and death. Sex is associated with procreation and the preservation of life, while death is the destruction of it. Aggression is used to maintain the balance and protect life. If we observe animal life, it is easy to understand this concept. Animals preserve and protect their offspring by fighting for dominance. In human terms, this behavior can be seen in the accumulation of wealth, education, and status that is intended to provide the best chance of survival and continuation of a given family. The same principle applies to groups as well. Each ethnic, religious, secular or any other ideological group tries to promote its own survival in competition with others. Darwin’s concept of natural selection and survival of the fittest describes similar principles.

rauli.cbs.dk...

This one is a piece on ontopolitics, and mentions Anders Behring's bombing and shooting. I think most of it is ridiculous but I thought it a nice piece to point out an ongoing bit of propaganda that is seeping into "scholarly" discourse. That is that all the media blamed Muslims off the bat. Two Islamic groups CLAIMED the bombing as soon as it happened. This bit of information seems to have been scrubbed in the general guilt-ridden hand wringing "we are so racist" apologist rhetoric.

www.krapuul.nl...

But perhaps it is permitted to speak to the suspicion that the terrorist Norwegian Anders Breivik Behring an inspirer of PVV leader Machiel de Graaf. It just suddenly came to me when I heard that the Count was talking about "cultural Marxists" in his maiden speech in the Senate, and earlier in a speech to his additional position of the Hague municipal council. I mean who else but Breivik is a fan of this terminology? Well Machiel de Graaf so.

Guilt by association.

The term has been used before - just because it was less used for a while doesn't mean no one was using it.

They merely started saying instead something like "god-damn-commies."


www.t-a.no...

The police are requesting that all his detention hearing happen by video link. The defense are working to have him come to court.

We are very skeptical that he explain himself via video link. This is the client's legal rights to do. It is quite another to explain himself in front of a camera in the cell than in front of the judge in the courtroom, says defender Geir Lippestad to NRK.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Now here is a whole pot of disturbing.

A discussion of the people with the "psychopath genes" and what needs to be done with them. Today's discussion is on understanding. The next one is on removal from the populace this trait.

Like this trait isn't linked with some selection advantage.

Like selective removal from just a few societies while leaving it in all the rest isn't highly alarming.

I see you guys gunning for me and mine. Don't think I don't.

www.tv2.no...

Discussion of Anders Behring living in a fantasy world.

Quite possible that there is a lack of segregation. The problem with this concept here is, that it doesn't appear to be lifetime of it. It isn't impacting all of his thought processes.

If this is the case, then it has been getting worse and in an age group that is unusual.

Which suggests a possible biological origin?

Or he's using the fantasy intentionally as a dissociative technique. This is a whole other form of odd.

freeinternetpress.com...

www.spiegel.de...

The armchairs do not face each other directly so that Breivik isn't forced to look his interrogator in the eyes.

He doesn't care.

On interrogation days, Breivik is questioned for up to 10 hours, with Rachlew watching from behind a panel of one-way glass. Even when the investigators are exhausted, Breivik merely says: "Let's keep going."

All of the relatively small number of people who have come into contact with Breivik since his arrest are troubled by the question of the sheer magnitude of evil they are confronting. Breivik's crime, his reaction to it and, indeed, his very existence calls their professionalism into question.

"He seems so satisfied," Rachlew says.

"He shows no emotions, no empathy," says his colleague Hatlo, noting that even when Breivik describes his actions as "horrible," it's nothing but a word to him, and one he feels no emotion when using.

Thank you Spiegel Online. This is getting way closer to what I'm looking for.

Will they release some of the interviews being done? I'd review his game play if I could but it doesn't get stored anywhere. I can only review his posts on the subject, which are more expansive than most of his political or history posts. More. Give me more.

I have thoughts on this, but I need to organize them.

At some point ask him about his reproductive plans. Did he put his sperm on ice? For his own use? Someone else's? He's a donor? Who is entrusted with this?

As I said before, some of his internal world doens't make sense without a will to breed.


Now about the Spiegel Online article from above:

Everyone on Utoya is him except the first couple of people.

What he was the moment before he planted that bomb, he is no longer that man. When he killed the first people on Utoya, he killed whatever it was that he was before. You are working under the presumption that what you are interviewing is a complete view of him as he has been for his whole life, or even his whole adult life.

He killed all aspects of himself except the innocent child. He's not home anymore. He is not himself. Rebirth in blood.

The family members want to know how he killed their children, where they hid and whether they had to suffer for long.

Most shots were immediate kill shots. Double shots to assure death.

However, if they didn't die, then leaving them to die painfully of the poison was the back up option.

Every second bullet was poisoned. So the two shots should make sure everyone got one poison bullet if possible.

So the preference seems to have been to kill them, but if that didn't work then to leave them to die in quick agony. The nicotine should have increased blood pressure and heart rate to make these poor kids bled out fast.

Effective and nasty.

The investigators need to form an image for themselves of Breivik and his crimes.

You can describe it, but can you form an image of him? Well....

Breivik is now the "rare animal in the zoo,"

You can take a picture, you can describe its colour, and you can categorize the caged animal, you can listen to its calls, you can even figure out if it has grammar. But can you form an image in your head you can relate to? I doubt most people can. Most who can are probably projecting or delusional.

Can you relate to something that can't relate to you? Or can you just share space with it, like owning a nice python?

Can you love someone the way they love themselves long enough to see them through their eyes when you are so horrified with them? Without provoking your internal defense mechanisms? Can you hold a foreign idea without owning?

Apparently these professionals can't, and they are professionals.

Breivik told Rachlew and Hatlo that it was difficult for him to shoot the first four victims. But then the music he was listening to on headphones, "Lux Aeterna" from "Lord of the Rings," gave him a boost and made him feel euphoric. And then there were the drugs, the amphetamines. He said that he had switched "to autopilot," as he called it. But most of all, he was driven by his conviction.

Autopilot if probably an excellent description.

I don't really understand why mental health experts find this concept so hard to comprehend. Every time I see it about anyone, it is like this is the oddest thing ever to them.

Don't they see victims of rape that say the same thing? If you can access this for one type of trauma, why would you not realize that some people can access this state at other times? That they can or learn to induce this state in themselves.

On which note:

After breaking off all contact with his father at 15, Breivik became increasingly withdrawn. In a 1995 entry in his school yearbook, he is described in the following way: "Anders was a member of the 'gang,' but then he suddenly stopped being friends with the others." Breivik reportedly also hit the principal on one occasion and, according to the yearbook, he often did "unpredictable, stupid things," and he yearned to have a perfect body.

Re-read my previous paragraph.

Add to it this:

he probably "had too many freedoms" and that he was just "one of those privileged children" from the affluent western part of Oslo.

I could be utterly off here. Obviously I don't think I am since I'm now going to write it out anyways, but I felt the need to cover my butt if I turn out to be utterly wrong later.

Add the "too many freedoms" to neglect I've seen described in another article. Being "from the affluent" might make this seem like something one doesn't have any call to complain about it. Like being from a 'better family' makes it so that what happens to you is something that you can't complain about in the context of the problems of others in the World. You also get told this all the time.

You know, the same things he's been being told about not being allowed to have an opinion about dangers. As a white guy with nice things, you've got no call to complain.

He's internalized that message. Completely. He isn't just trying to paint a 'picture of perfect' for you and me. The global societal view along with a lifetime of being told that his life is too good to complain about has been utterly internalized.

He doesn't see it.

You told him that he's got no call to complain about what the well off white boys get, and he believes it. You told him that all his life that you step in if anything is wrong and you didn't. You told him that the leftwing that is in power protects the weak, the innocent, the oppressed and they've been in power the whole damn time.

Add to this the societal message: Don't judge anyone. You don't complain, you got it good.

He's a true believer. When younger he "truly believed" the societal message he was given. Minus any parental tendency to modify it. And it probably got him fracked up. Traumatized.

When you don't have any protections, no one is looking out for you, and those who are supposed to protect you neglect you, you get into bad situations with bad people because every message you get is that you aren't allowed to judge people... well you might as well slather some pig fat on a kid and turn them out in a pack of wolves.

I'm not guessing about that part. I'm projecting from my own experience here. Neglect, too many freedoms, risk taking tendency, attractive kid, and a totally internalized societal message of accept everyone don't judge. Pig fat on sheep.

If you already have compromised wiring, and a predisposition to sociopathology, you're playing with fire.

The system set the stage, and he's swatted his surrogate Mother.

Marduk slays Tiamet.

Normal murderers would not be talking, Hatlo says, whereas Breivik talks for hours, adding: "It's exhausting." Breivik will only interrupt the interrogation every once in a while to smoke a cigarette or eat a hamburger, which he has his attorney order from his favorite restaurant

He's still smoking. Do you think he knows that nicotine kills?

Breivik wants to sit for these interrogations, and he wants everything he says to be written down and recorded.

"He seems so satisfied," says Rachlew.

"He shows no emotions, no empathy," says his colleague Hatlo, noting that even when Breivik describes his actions as "horrible," it's nothing but a word to him, and one he feels no emotion when using.

He is going to kill himself after the trial.

Dead men don't need emotion.

reply to post by Aeons


I reviewed the number of poison shot he made.

He probably ran out of them in the last fifteen minutes. The youth shot that survived in the last fifteen minutes were likely not hit by the poison bullets, which is why some of them survived multiple shots. This might also help explain why he hit some of them with more bullets.

www.newsinenglish.no...

Not to do with Behring Breivik specifically. They protected a man they thought might one day be a leader of the party, to the extent of leaving their own children there.

In Spiegel's article Hatlo discusses that Anders is drinking tiny sips at intervals through-out the interview.

Does he do this at other times?

I get the idea that everyone is trying to parse if he's narcissistic, psychopathic, OCD, or some form of non-specific schizophrenia or some combination. But he doesn't quite fit anywhere.

Have they just asked him about the water? Does he show signs of being anxious?

Have you asked him about his own ability to be self-reflective? Or his flat affect? Just asked him about it? Asked him if this is new or life-long?

It doesn't seem so from how they are describing him most of the time. In either OCD or schizophrenia the usual expectation is that this sort of ritualized behaviour is to control anxiety.

Yet, I see nothing indicating that he is displaying something that would suggest anxiety. Quite the opposite.

What if their model is biased by their sample? The model relies on the analysis of people who are without control. Or their control is out of control. What happens when the subject is the opoosite - someone with much control?

What if the underlying issue with ritualization isn't that it is to control anxiety, that this is in and of itself merely an outcome of an attempt at taking control of how you use dopamine where the systemic control of it is being pushed from a subconscious level to a semi-conscious one? Emerged conscious control which has been practiced and then pushed down to semi-conscious control again?

Delayed and extended brain maturation process.

So what you are looking at, again, is someone who is deliberately consciously controlling their internal biological mechanisms?

Originally posted by Aeons
"He shows no emotions, no empathy," says his colleague Hatlo, noting that even when Breivik describes his actions as "horrible," it's nothing but a word to him, and one he feels no emotion when using.

He is going to kill himself after the trial.

Dead men don't need emotion.

www.dagbladet.no...

- What he believes his own future now?

- I do not believe he is going farther than the trial, I have certainly not spoken to him about something that is farther than that. He does not rejoice at the trial. But he looks forward to being done with it, says Lippestad

I imagine he is looking forward to the trial getting underway. Then he can be done.