The Norway massacre and the question nobody cares to ask

Originally posted by angeldoll
reply to post by Kemal

 

Maybe for the same reasons nobody called Jared Laughner those things. He may not be. At this point it looks like he is fit for the lunatic asylum and acted alone. Unless we learn more.....

Veteran anti-fascist researcher Dave Emory thinks otherwise..........

spitfirelist.com...

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by SatoriTheory

 

We are in a nexus of events right now that have obviously caused certain very powerful ppl to panic.

And who are these certain very powerful people?

Right now the Euro is very close to meltdown, the US Dollar is suddenly rallying although every major hedge manager warns of August 2nd as D-day for the dollar. A military coup is very close in Eqypt, the ex-mossad chief has announced publically that Benjamin Netanyahu has gone mad and has decided to bomb Iran by september this year, not caring the least what the consequences might be or even what Obama might think.

People have been saying Israel(and/or the USA) will do this or that to Iran for years now.

Rupert Murdochs empire is coming down together with certain ministers and police chiefs, and lets not forget Libya and Syria.

Not even close to being a reality.
Rupert Murdoch him self stated that News of The World represented less then 1% of his global News Corp empire. They voluntarily shut NOTW them selves.
He and his son have answered a few questions in the UK.
It wont go any further then that for News Corp.

A 911 like massacre in Norway, the beacon of peace in Europe and the only country not subject to economic debtslavery, is but another horrid bit in this strange puzzling year of seemingly endless disasters and calamities.

How is it a 9/11 like massacre?
It doesn't even compare to 9/11 which was the single biggest terrorist act in the recorded history of man kind.

How is Norway the beacon of peace in Europe? Why does the beacon of peace in Europe needs companies like Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace that develop missiles and weapon systems for war ? ?? ? ?

I gotta say. I think it is very strange the coincidence that the day before the "campers" were protesting and talked with the prime minister and the next day the "campers" and prime minister were attacked.

Not that it's a conspiracy, but that this is what set him off. Something about it must have infuriated him I think.

Also it is a little weird, I wonder if these kids are kind of indoctrinated at these "camps." I mean I understand the concept and that the teens are probably highly political teens that are interested in world politics I just don't think I agree with this kind of camp. ( though I agree with the campers ideas about Israel getting a little out of hand and etc).

Anyway, back to what I was saying.. Doesn't everyone else think this coincidence is a little too much?

if he is chauvinist, why kill norwegian kids? even if he had killed imigrant kids, it wont add much simpathy to his ideology. dont think kids killer r the most inspiring hero type.

if he is a pure lunatic, why give up to the police? is he not a bit too flawless for a madman? but let this scenario still open yet, just in case.

lets ask, why were kids to be the victims? they obviously know the most damaging way to punish the future generation of people who dared to disagree! this wound for sure would leave some mark.

my deepest sympathy to Norway.

double post

Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by coyote66

 

1 day before the incident, a local news tv here in indonesia was reporting about the group of girl scout to atend a intl. camp in norway. FYI all the girls came from a single and only province in indonesia, that got special autonomy to implement islamic law. the province of aceh, also nicknamed 'the front door of mecca' to indonesia

I find this interesting, if for nothing else than the timing. Has there been further comment about this, and if so, would you mind posting a link? Thanks.

im sorry but i wasnt able to find any link. i might have misheard, didnt think it was important that time. this is embarasing

but i found many links saying about scoutcamps in sweden. maybe i realy overheard.

the station that covered this is TV ONE. often considered as the most propaganda oriented tv station in my country.

reply to post by johncarter


I also wonder why these terrorist attacks are set up so similarly to one another right down to the gunman. This could be Tim M Veigh and the ATF in Oklahoma. Sounds pretty fishy to me too.

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by Pericle
You guys should really see his manifesto and video

[Rest Deleted]

. Get yourself informed.

I cant believe you got a star for this.

Because you just admitted that it's "understandable" he developed this hate, however have not given one single reason WHY...except that you observed "many muslims immigrating to Norway" - THEREFORE (in your twisted mind) it must be legit to develop hate.

Which proves that you judge people solely on their religion/color/origin whatsoever...which is the dumbest and weakest thing someone can do.

(Obviously, you have problems to accept it COULD be that people from another religion/race/color can be normal people do?)

Nothing in his Manifesto is "reasonable" or rational (yes, i read it too)....unless you accept that Guerilla warfare, a militant totalitarian regime aka Hitler, executions of people who have different opinions and the occasional blowing up of Nuclear power plants is "rational". WHAT THE ***** is even remotely rational about this?

Having this manifesto is giving us unprecedented insight into his life, beliefs and motivations, things that you don't get that easy from people that do these things. People go around this forum talking BS simply because they have no idea who this guy is. Get yourself informed and you can make better comments.

All I pointed out is that you can get all your questions answered if you take the time to read his manifesto and not simply label him as a lunatic/pshyco/etc. There are arguments there that cannot be dismissed so easily. The "problem" of Islam in Europe is not something new and due to this attack I think this will only increase. And to a certain extent I can understand why immigration can create problems, I have seen it with my own eyes how entire cities can be transformed due to this. Is this good? Is that bad? Its a matter of opinion and thus here is where conflict starts.

Indeed people should not hate each other just because they have different views of life (different cultures, religion, ethnicity) but the reality is that they do and this can result in what we have seen in Norway. If you think you can simply ignore this because people are not supposed to hate themselves due to these things you are deadly wrong.

I am shocked by what happened and the manner it was conducted, for this reason I took the time to read his manifesto, because I also had questions that supposedly had no answer. However after reading his paper I can say I now understand his actions, I don't agree to them, but I can follow his logic. Why he killed his own people? Yes he answers that. Why he did this? He answers that. How he did it? Also answered. Everything is there.

If you want to understand a problem you have to look at it from as many angles as possible including this guys perspective. His manifesto is something you don't see every day. Next thing people like you will say is that reading his manifesto is evil. Nice way to be ignorant IMO. Get informed and stop judging based on no idea of the reasons and underling problems that define this event.

Here on the Belgian news there are reports of a total of 135 people dead/hurt.
How can one guy shoot 135 people,even 2 guys, the chaos that would have been caused by one bullet,it would have been like shooting raindrops, everybody moving, or did they all just stand still ?

Also he was dressed as a cop,again,have you ever seen a cop get 135 people together ?

This whole story stinks to the bottom, the sad part is, the motive behind it, Norwegian people are among the most peace-full people out there; FFS its like the European canada

reply to post by Pericle

If you want to understand a problem you have to look at it from as many angles as possible including this guys perspective. His manifesto is something you don't see every day. Next thing people like you will say is that reading his manifesto is evil. Nice way to be ignorant IMO. Get informed and stop judging based on no idea of the reasons and underling problems that define this event.

Interesting reasoning. Reminds me of a naive child. So if this guy happened to blow your sister or brother away, killing them with dumdum bullets the way he did with 14 year old children on that island would your reaction be the same. So you would tell us ATS troglodytes, whom are unable to understand his killings as acceptable because of a Mein Kamph like manifesto... yes I can understand he blew my sisters head off, or perforated my brothers body with six dumdum bullets, because his manifesto made sense to me...?!

Are you for real or are you on heavy meds?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xaphan

 

Maybe it doesn't technically make you racist, but it certainly makes you prejudiced and likely racist.

You don't like any muslims, how do you know? I have a few friends that are muslim, they are awesome. They go out with us and hang out, crack the same dirty jokes, and etc. You have just stereotyped them all.

edit on 24-7-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Likely racist? I take offense to that. There are four things I hate in this world more than anything: racism, animal abusers, child abusers, and religion. How many times will I have to repeat it? I dislike the Abrahamic religions, not the races of the people who follow them. How does hating religion make me "likely racist"? That's an invalid argument.

If I were racist, I would only have friends of my own ethnicity, which isn't the case. I'm white, and I actually have more Native American friends than white friends, and a few friends of Semitic and African descent, and if anyone ever made a racist remark to any of my friends, I'd gladly start a big fight over it.

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Pericle

 

If you want to understand a problem you have to look at it from as many angles as possible including this guys perspective. His manifesto is something you don't see every day. Next thing people like you will say is that reading his manifesto is evil. Nice way to be ignorant IMO. Get informed and stop judging based on no idea of the reasons and underling problems that define this event.

Interesting reasoning. Reminds me of a naive child. So if this guy happened to blow your sister or brother away, killing them with dumdum bullets the way he did with 14 year old children on that island would your reaction be the same. So you would tell us ATS troglodytes, whom are unable to understand his killings as acceptable because of a Mein Kamph like manifesto... yes I can understand he blew my sisters head off, or perforated my brothers body with six dumdum bullets, because his manifesto made sense to me...?!

Are you for real or are you on heavy meds?

I see what you did there.

I did not say his killings are understandable, what I aimed at is that his acts can be understood, you can see where they come from. There is a difference there. You failed to see my reasoning. And your example is flawed and besides the point. If one would be directly affected by this event, say losing someone, the instinct would tell you to kill this criminal, but would that make you any better? No, you would be a different criminal with just a different bunch of reasonings.

His manifesto is a document that must be carefully analysed and understood because it is the reason why he did this. What to avoid such events in the future? Then you better give attention to it.

reply to post by Pericle

His manifesto is a document that must be carefully analysed and understood because it is the reason why he did this. What to avoid such events in the future? Then you better give attention to it.

Your view is certainly valid and in a free society expected as much as my own, but I would like to see you stand in Oslo right now, telling the families of the murdered children this naive "garbage" right in their face. I am sure they would understand your rational view, concieved behind a computer screen far away from the bloody reality.

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Pericle

 

If you want to understand a problem you have to look at it from as many angles as possible including this guys perspective. His manifesto is something you don't see every day. Next thing people like you will say is that reading his manifesto is evil. Nice way to be ignorant IMO. Get informed and stop judging based on no idea of the reasons and underling problems that define this event.

Interesting reasoning. Reminds me of a naive child. So if this guy happened to blow your sister or brother away, killing them with dumdum bullets the way he did with 14 year old children on that island would your reaction be the same. So you would tell us ATS troglodytes, whom are unable to understand his killings as acceptable because of a Mein Kamph like manifesto... yes I can understand he blew my sisters head off, or perforated my brothers body with six dumdum bullets, because his manifesto made sense to me...?!

Are you for real or are you on heavy meds?

Being able to look at a thing like this and stay completely un-biased is no easy task, what this guy has done is insane on so many levels its hard to take in. In-fact when I first heard the news it made me feel sick.

However, as stated above he has released such in-depth information into his life and "reasoning" that it would be naive to make assumptions without looking at all the data available. One thing I have noticed while skimming through the manifesto is that this guy does not come across as someone who is mentally unstable, in-fact he appears to be opposite. He has carried out a plan, on his own at a very sophisticated level and even now his plan still seems to be working. For instance, if this horrific event didnt happen the majority (if any) of us here would know of this guy, his views or manifesto. However, because of the insane events and the coverage by the media we are all talking about it, it has literaly worked exactly as he wanted it too. I also think this will have a continued effect as with so much in-depth info some money grabbing producer will turn this into a film, only promoting his cause more in the future.

All that being said I do not agree with any views or action he has taken, I do however think it is important to review all data that is made available.

Originally posted by Pericle

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Pericle

 

If you want to understand a problem you have to look at it from as many angles as possible including this guys perspective. His manifesto is something you don't see every day. Next thing people like you will say is that reading his manifesto is evil. Nice way to be ignorant IMO. Get informed and stop judging based on no idea of the reasons and underling problems that define this event.

Interesting reasoning. Reminds me of a naive child. So if this guy happened to blow your sister or brother away, killing them with dumdum bullets the way he did with 14 year old children on that island would your reaction be the same. So you would tell us ATS troglodytes, whom are unable to understand his killings as acceptable because of a Mein Kamph like manifesto... yes I can understand he blew my sisters head off, or perforated my brothers body with six dumdum bullets, because his manifesto made sense to me...?!

Are you for real or are you on heavy meds?

I see what you did there.

I did not say his killings are understandable, what I aimed at is that his acts can be understood, you can see where they come from. There is a difference there. You failed to see my reasoning. And your example is flawed and besides the point. If one would be directly affected by this event, say losing someone, the instinct would tell you to kill this criminal, but would that make you any better? No, you would be a different criminal with just a different bunch of reasonings.

His manifesto is a document that must be carefully analysed and understood because it is the reason why he did this. What to avoid such events in the future? Then you better give attention to it.

why not just ask the idiot.he is still alive.

are you an intellectual? you fancy yourself a notch above the normal person?

you want to do your thesis on mass murderers using manifestos from known murdering egomaniacs?

who the putz writes a manifesto anyway?

He was programed to Kill. They just said the code word and he willingly gave himself up.

Originally posted by Kemal
reply to post by johncarter

 

True, plus, I wonder why no one calls him a "terrorist" or a "Christian extremist". Or have I missed something?

I too have wondered about that. If he had been an American, and did this in America, that is exactly what the news media would call him.

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Pericle

 

His manifesto is a document that must be carefully analysed and understood because it is the reason why he did this. What to avoid such events in the future? Then you better give attention to it.

Your view is certainly valid and in a free society expected as much as my own, but I would like to see you stand in Oslo right now, telling the families of the murdered children this naive "garbage" right in their face. I am sure they would understand your rational view, concieved behind a computer screen far away from the bloody reality.

edit on 25-7-2011 by johncarter because: (no reason given)

I try to keep a balanced view. But you are right on the point that such discussions are not appropriate if you face the families that suffered from this or anyone close to them. However we are on a forum, discussing, and I think my points are valid and not inappropriate unless some of you knew the people that died?

What I'm trying here is to have a reasonable discussion and not talk about the biased ideas people have about this incident. Saying that he's crazy simplifies things too much for the complexity of this event. People do this so they can throw easy judgements.

I did read the manifesto, found no valid points in it really, and a lot of bigotry.
If there is something I missed, please enlighten me.

Originally posted by amy2x
He was programed to Kill. They just said the code word and he willingly gave himself up.

Yes. But the subject is taboo, the idea of drugging and raping so as to create a fractured human with multiple personalities. These subjects are more painful than discussing murder, you see? This disease, is global, and deep, and generational. The dis-ease I speak of, is when we are hurt internally, and that hurt is directed externally, like this shooter. The trigger, was his only outlet for all that has been done to him. Eventually we will have to take a good honest look at ourselves, the human race.

As some kind of tiny-step forward toward a painful mountain of globo-shame, I suggest a national and global discussion of the book "A Fractured Mind: My Life with Multiple Personality Disorder" by Robert B. Oxnam. I have said this elsewhere in the Internet. We need to remove the shills who won't let the discussion about fractured minds proceed. These MK kids are now adults and they are drug and info couriers and assassins. It is time to stop being children, all you so called "adults".

"A Fractured Mind: My Life with Multiple Personality Disorder" by Robert B. Oxnam