Can anyone explain to me why christianity and the christian god make any sense?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by LicentiaEstVox

 

Don't turn away from Him,because then he will turn away from you.

great post, but i take exception to this. god is a stalker, He will chase you till you breathe your last breath. he's the great sheppard who will leave the 99 and chase the one that is lost!

Amen to that.

Interesting. When the Israelites were lost, he would severely punish them. Like I said, I was even told that god would severely punish me and my family since I am no longer a believer. Did you read my post about that? Is that how he chases the lost sheep? Screw that.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

Most atheists have the spirit of fear, it's called death. Atheists have emotion too, and just because they don't believe the positive claims of religion or those with a belief in God, doesn't mean that they are "rebellious" or "wrong".

When a Christian makes the "rebellious" charge they are saying they are rebelling from God. Not that the Atheist believes in God but wants to rebel against Him. But technically speaking, we ALL are rebellious to God.

That's why Jesus gave his life.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Not true, a majority of us were not believers in God, therefore we were not believers in a Hell created by a God we didn't believe in.

No, that isn't true. A majority of you were raised in church and were taught about hell and eternal punishment, if you live in the United States and most Western European countries. A minority were not raised in the belief of christianity.

Now, since you didn't believe in the god that you believe in now, what changed your mind, and why the god you believe in and not any other god?

reply to post by Hydroman

Interesting. When the Israelites were lost, he would severely punish them.

How does a father try to get the attention of a rebellious child?

God is no different.


"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

 

Most atheists have the spirit of fear, it's called death. Atheists have emotion too, and just because they don't believe the positive claims of religion or those with a belief in God, doesn't mean that they are "rebellious" or "wrong".

When a Christian makes the "rebellious" charge they are saying they are rebelling from God. Not that the Atheist believes in God but wants to rebel against Him. But technically speaking, we ALL are rebellious to God.

That's why Jesus gave his life.

I quite understand what was meant by it; anyone who is skeptical of a positive unfalsifiable claim could be seen as rebellious.

I'm rebellious to the claim that Elvis is alive, or that reincarnation is "true". I just don't believe it.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

When a Christian makes the "rebellious" charge they are saying they are rebelling from God. Not that the Atheist believes in God but wants to rebel against Him. But technically speaking, we ALL are rebellious to God.

That's why Jesus gave his life.

Lol, what? See, this is what doesn't make sense. Jesus gave his life for what? Because we are rebellious? So, god makes up this rule that says, "I must come to earth and become a perfect man, so that I can sacrifice myself to myself and reconcile these people back to me because of this rule I made. There's just no other way..."

That makes sense to you?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
How does a father try to get the attention of a rebellious child?

God is no different.


"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

A father normally doesn't submit his children to disease, plague, and death to get his point across. God is different. He is insane in the membrane. But you also have put god on the level of humanity. As if this omnipotent, omniscient god would have to chasten his children the same way us imperfect humans do it. Seems like he'd have a more peaceful, loving way.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Not true, a majority of us were not believers in God, therefore we were not believers in a Hell created by a God we didn't believe in.

No, that isn't true. A majority of you were raised in church and were taught about hell and eternal punishment, if you live in the United States and most Western European countries. A minority were not raised in the belief of christianity.

Now, since you didn't believe in the god that you believe in now, what changed your mind, and why the god you believe in and not any other god?

I don't know where you're getting your information, it seems like personal conjecture. Who cares if we were drug to church by parents. If we were not believers that means we did not believe. Kinda self-explanatory. There is nothing to fear about a God that one doesn't believe in.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

When a Christian makes the "rebellious" charge they are saying they are rebelling from God. Not that the Atheist believes in God but wants to rebel against Him. But technically speaking, we ALL are rebellious to God.

That's why Jesus gave his life.

Lol, what? See, this is what doesn't make sense. Jesus gave his life for what? Because we are rebellious? So, god makes up this rule that says, "I must come to earth and become a perfect man, so that I can sacrifice myself to myself and reconcile these people back to me because of this rule I made. There's just no other way..."

That makes sense to you?

I doubt you've read Romans, but Paul makes the argument that God took the form of man to die so that we would be free from His first covenant with man. He likens it to a marriage where a wife is free to remarry after her first husband has died. So we're no longer under the curse of the law but in a covenant of grace.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I don't know where you're getting your information, it seems like personal conjecture. Who cares if we were drug to church by parents. If we were not believers that means we did not believe. Kinda self-explanatory. There is nothing to fear about a God that one doesn't believe in.

It's called "indoctrination". The same thing happens with Muslilms and Hindus, and pretty much any other belief system. A child is born, taught the way of its parents and believes that way for the rest of his or her life. There are exceptions though.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

I quite understand what was meant by it; anyone who is skeptical of a positive unfalsifiable claim could be seen as rebellious.

No, Biblically speaking God has placed His laws on all our hearts. We should all instinctively know it's wrong to murder, to steal, to lie, to bear a false witness against someone et cetra, et cetra.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

I doubt you've read Romans, but Paul makes the argument that God took the form of man to die so that we would be free from His first covenant with man. He likens it to a marriage where a wife is free to remarry after her first husband has died. So we're no longer under the curse of the law but in a covenant of grace.

Yes, I've read Romans. When I was a christian, it was my favorite book. But again, you see, it doesn't make any sense. How does death and blood sacrifice actually make things better for us? Why couldn't we simply ask for forgiveness from our hearts and receive forgiveness without taking innocent lives to get the job done for us? Why the rule of taking an innocent life to pay for the evil deeds of someone else?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I don't know where you're getting your information, it seems like personal conjecture. Who cares if we were drug to church by parents. If we were not believers that means we did not believe. Kinda self-explanatory. There is nothing to fear about a God that one doesn't believe in.

It's called "indoctrination". The same thing happens with Muslilms and Hindus, and pretty much any other belief system. A child is born, taught the way of its parents and believes that way for the rest of his or her life. There are exceptions though.

Your's is the exception. There are millions upon millions of Christians who didn't have believing parents. You have to account for these people because these people exist. If that means you have to alter your rhetoric then do so.

MANY people had no faith in God whatsoever, therefore there was no fear of condemnation from a God that they didn't feel exists. I don't live in fear that Magneto or Darth Vader exist and will kill me along with the human race.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

We should all instinctively know it's wrong to murder, to steal, to lie, to bear a false witness against someone et cetra, et cetra.

I agree. If the majority of people thought it was "right" to murder, steal and lie then there wouldn't be much of a civilisation left; that kind of critical mass would be suicidal. Language was developed to communicate, if everyone prefferred lying it would render communication (or the transfer of information) as a farce; as useless.

It's a shame Christianity didn't include a clause about slavery within the commandments. Many will claim that this is covered in a specific commandment; i beg to differ; and it seems remarkable that not one verse from the bible shows Jesus as condeming or protesting slavery.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
No, Biblically speaking God has placed His laws on all our hearts. We should all instinctively know it's wrong to murder, to steal, to lie, to bear a false witness against someone et cetra, et cetra.

So an apocolyptic event has occurred. Electricity is out, fuel is gone, stores are closed. Your family is starving to death. You neighbor has a garden full of vegetables but is not willing to give anything to anyone. Is it wrong to steal some of those vegetables to feed your starving family? If so, would you let your family starve to death? How many members of your family would have to die before you steal the food?

If there was no man made law against it, would it be wrong to litter? Is it wrong to marry your second cousin? Is it wrong to masturbate as long as you're thinking of your spouse? Slavery?

reply to post by Hydroman

Why couldn't we simply ask for forgiveness from our hearts and receive forgiveness without taking innocent lives to get the job done for us?

"Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins". Before Christ the blood of bulls and goats only covered sin. God's own shed blood in the form of Christ was the infinite sacrifice for an infinite number of human sins. You can reject the logic of Paul, I only pointed out the argument he made in Romans.

Why the rule of taking an innocent life to pay for the evil deeds of someone else?

Biblically speaking again, God made us and the universe, He gets to make the rules for redemption to Him and entering His kingdom. Do you own a home? Do you have your sworn enemies over to live with you? Why are you holding God to a different standard than you yourself have?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Your's is the exception. There are millions upon millions of Christians who didn't have believing parents. You have to account for these people because these people exist. If that means you have to alter your rhetoric then do so.

MANY people had no faith in God whatsoever, therefore there was no fear of condemnation from a God that they didn't feel exists. I don't live in fear that Magneto or Darth Vader exist and will kill me along with the human race.

Ok, look. These people did not believe in god, right? Now they must have at some point heard about him, either by a missionary, tv evangelist, etc. and what will happen if they don't follow this god, right? Then they begin to fear what might happen if they don't follow him. Or, do they just all the sudden start believing in a god for no reason? There has to be a reason they start believing.

reply to post by Hydroman

So an apocolyptic event has occurred. Electricity is out, fuel is gone, stores are closed. Your family is starving to death. You neighbor has a garden full of vegetables but is not willing to give anything to anyone. Is it wrong to steal some of those vegetables to feed your starving family? If so, would you let your family starve to death? How many members of your family would have to die before you steal the food?

I think the Hebrew connotation of "steal" implies a theft for means of coveting. In those times the poor were allowed to glean the fields for grain.

If there was no man made law against it, would it be wrong to litter? Is it wrong to marry your second cousin? Is it wrong to masturbate as long as you're thinking of your spouse?

irrelevant. in the context of our discussion man isn't going to judge another man's eternal destiny. the laws of men don't have bearing on rebelling against the laws of God.

reply to post by Hydroman

Ok, look. These people did not believe in god, right? Now they must have at some point heard about him, either by a missionary, tv evangelist, etc. and what will happen if they don't follow this god, right? Then they begin to fear what might happen if they don't follow him. Or, do they just all the sudden start believing in a god for no reason? There has to be a reason they start believing.

Dude, when I was saved and came forward to accept Christ I don't even remember the message being preached. but I can assure you I've never spent a night in fear of going to Hell. Not once, that's absurd IMO.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

It's a shame Christianity didn't include a clause about slavery within the commandments. Many will claim that this is covered in a specific commandment; i beg to differ; and it seems remarkable that not one verse from the bible shows Jesus as condeming or protesting slavery.

HUH? Forget the American practice centuries ago, that history has clouded our judgment. Much of Biblical "slavery" was indentured servants. There was no banks per se, and people went into servantude to pay for debts.

Paul specifically condemns "man stealers". Remember at that time for a majority of people who didn't own land "freedom" simply meant freedom to starve.