Can anyone explain to me why christianity and the christian god make any sense?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Biblically speaking again, God made us and the universe, He gets to make the rules for redemption to Him and entering His kingdom. Do you own a home? Do you have your sworn enemies over to live with you? Why are you holding God to a different standard than you yourself have?

edit on 22-6-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I don't have sworn enemies, at least none that I know of. If I did have enemies, I doubt that I would let them share my house, you are correct. Again, I'm not omnipotent. My family and I can suffer physical harm. What can I possibly do to harm or bring fear to your god who is omnipotent? What can I possibly do to scare him, to defeat him, to take something from him? I am nothing to an omnipotent being, just a fly buzzing around that can be swatted at any moment. And as a fly, my life is short on this earth and it doesn't matter how many good things I have done for others, just the fact that I'm not perfect can cost me an eternity being tortured.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dude, when I was saved and came forward to accept Christ I don't even remember the message being preached. but I can assure you I've never spent a night in fear of going to Hell. Not once, that's absurd IMO.

You don't remember the message, but you came forward? So why did you go forward? Anyways, just because you didn't spend any nights in fear of going to hell, it isn't absurd that millions of others did.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
HUH? Forget the American practice centuries ago, that history has clouded our judgment. Much of Biblical "slavery" was indentured servants. There was no banks per se, and people went into servantude to pay for debts.

Yes, there were indentured servants, but God's people also owned slaves. There is plenty of info about it in the O.T. It talks about how much to sell them for, how to discipline them, etc.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

LOL that's all atheist got dude is that they think we are in Church shivering, grinding teeth scared of God.

it makes them feel better about their bias rebellion. Like you said. God himself said "you no longer have a spirit of fear"

Atheist arguments are getting so played out

Nah, before you were "saved" you were afraid of burning forever. Now that you're "saved", you don't have to be scared. What's weird is that some christian churches, such as the Church of Christ believe that other denominations are going to hell. Some baptist denominations believe that non-baptist denominations are going to hell because you have to be baptized in a baptist church to be truly baptized. Some denominations believe that the KJV is the only true version of the bible and that those who read any non-KJV is reading something demonicly inspired. See how silly it all is? There's more. What about snake handlers and pentecostals? Surely they aren't crazy either....some denominations believe that when pentecostals are speaking in tongues it is actually demons doing it through them.

I volunteered for two years in a christian missionary organization in a country other than my own. I made a good friend who was a christian missionary. He came to visit me recently, and I divulged to him that I am no longer a believer. Our conversation turned sour after that as he told me that his god was going to cause many problems for me and my family as he paralleled my story with the story of the Israelites in the book of Deuteronomy, and how when the Israelites rebelled, god would punish them with plagues, diseases, etc. until they came back to him. He pretty much said the same would happen with me and my family. He tried to bring that fear to me and I would have none of it as I told him I simply don't believe it. Maybe I no longer have a spirit of fear either? He then told me that we could no longer have fellowship together. That was truly the sad moment. He could no longer be my friend. A christian man of 40 years or so, a missionary of much of that, and he can't be my friend? I thought Jesus came to the world to be with people like me and help them, not turn his back on them?

What is even more strange is that I shared my unbelief with my christian parents, and told them what this missionary had told me. I ask them what they thought about it, and my mother replied, "I've been praying for you so that god would not do anything to you" (paraphrased). Wow, my mom has to pray to her god to keep him from harming me? What the hell?

edit on 22-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Man your understanding of what god is, is amazingly destroyed by people who lack graces in dealing with souls. God wants us to smile, that's it, and love. Imean look at this.

"Our conversation turned sour after that as he told me that his god was going to cause many problems for me and my family as he paralleled my story with the story of the Israelites in the book of Deuteronomy, and how when the Israelites rebelled, god would punish them with plagues, diseases, etc. until they came back to him. He pretty much said the same would happen with me and my family.

Alot of people because of pride think they know how God will deal with you. God forgives instantly. Sure God punishes us like an Earthly father, but it doesn't mean he's gonna bail on us and send plagues like we are Satan.

I truly believe the rebellious are just turned off by the people they meet along the way. Some see Christians as robots, some see them as judgemental.

It's just bull. God is not like that. He's childlike. He wants souls to enjoy life and stay like a child and love. If you make a fault, move on and try again.

And btw I didn't fear hell before I converted. I was Godless up until age 20 years old. I didn't even know what hell was really. Nobody taught meabout hell.

I used to be like a pagan mindset. Honest to God at one point I actually thought I was a vampire.

toodles.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Biblically speaking again, God made us and the universe, He gets to make the rules for redemption to Him and entering His kingdom.

This is the entire point of my thread. In the beginning there was only god, doing whatever he did. Then he comes up with an idea to create something, a universe. In that universe will be an inhabited planet with many different forms of life. Also, in the heavens with him there will be another form of life created to serve him. Lol, why? Why does he need these beings to serve and worship him? Was he not just fine beforehand? Then he creates man, who he also wants to worship him and if they don't, he'll cause the rocks and trees to do it. Why? Is he really in that much need of worship? Wasn't he just fine before he created anything? Was he sitting up there where ever he was, and he thought "Hmmm, I need some creatures to worship me...."

Then he does all this knowing that he's going to have to come up with a plan where he will have to sacrifice himself, to himself so that he can forgive us. He's just sitting there thinking all this up, if he is truly an omnipotent, omniscient god. Then BOOOM "Let there be light"...

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Alot of people because of pride think they know how God will deal with you. God forgives instantly. Sure God punishes us like an Earthly father, but it doesn't mean he's gonna bail on us and send plagues like we are Satan.
I truly believe the rebellious are just turned off by the people they meet along the way. Some see Christians as robots, some see them as judgemental.

It's just bull. God is not like that. He's childlike. He wants souls to enjoy life and stay like a child and love. If you make a fault, move on and try again.

That is your ideal of what god is to you. Many people have different ideals. Seems like he'd want everyone on the same page to me, if he were real. So, why did you decide to quit your pagan belief system and switch to the god of the bible?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dude, when I was saved and came forward to accept Christ I don't even remember the message being preached. but I can assure you I've never spent a night in fear of going to Hell. Not once, that's absurd IMO.

You don't remember the message, but you came forward? So why did you go forward? Anyways, just because you didn't spend any nights in fear of going to hell, it isn't absurd that millions of others did.

You've claimed they did. Do you have any citations or sources for this? I've never met a Christian who has fear of God's hell before they believed in God. How can someone fear something they don't believe in?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

HUH? Forget the American practice centuries ago, that history has clouded our judgment.

Is still wasn't frowned upon by the authors of the bible; nor was it condemned by priests and vicars around the time. Those of which claimed to have a personal connection with God; Those who claim or claimed to be "holy".

Someone under the belief of a God (or scripture) has never been free from fault, has never been "perfect"; and it doesn't stop them from saying crazy or immoral things:-

For example, the annointed one (the Pope) declared that condomns "worsened" the aids epidemic.

Just shows you that social prejudice is NOT absolute and it changes with time or with democratic input (slavery, racism, sexism, homophobia)

Doctrine is declared absolute or "The Word of God" and can cause us to hold onto silly prejudices. And this is the concern many non-believers have.

Most Christians (who are consistent with doctrine) are too cowardly to admit that they believe homosexuality is an abomination, other than that, Christians will play the "vague faith" game - Cherry picking doctrine and dogma with accordance to the time, place or social norm.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Alot of people because of pride think they know how God will deal with you. God forgives instantly. Sure God punishes us like an Earthly father, but it doesn't mean he's gonna bail on us and send plagues like we are Satan.
I truly believe the rebellious are just turned off by the people they meet along the way. Some see Christians as robots, some see them as judgemental.

It's just bull. God is not like that. He's childlike. He wants souls to enjoy life and stay like a child and love. If you make a fault, move on and try again.

That is your ideal of what god is to you. Many people have different ideals. Seems like he'd want everyone on the same page to me, if he were real. So, why did you decide to quit your pagan belief system and switch to the god of the bible?

Yea he does want everyone on the same page. I wasn't practicing paganism. I just though I was a vampire at one point with red lights in my room. All that jizz.


lol... this thread is going to places I never thought.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
HUH? Forget the American practice centuries ago, that history has clouded our judgment. Much of Biblical "slavery" was indentured servants. There was no banks per se, and people went into servantude to pay for debts.

Yes, there were indentured servants, but God's people also owned slaves. There is plenty of info about it in the O.T. It talks about how much to sell them for, how to discipline them, etc.

Correct, but slaves were to be freed in a jubilee year and property restored. OT speaking it was a spoil of war, humans and their labor was a traded commodity. it's not that way today, the fundamental aspect of that way of life is not here today.

Not "some", most slavery in that day was the indentured servant type. As I said, in that day "freedom" simply meant freedom to starve to death.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You've claimed they did. Do you have any citations or sources for this? I've never met a Christian who has fear of God's hell before they believed in God. How can someone fear something they don't believe in?

Again, people who aren't raised in a church have to hear about god from somewhere. They don't just say, "Hey, I'm going to believe in this god though I've never heard about him." That's common sense.

They have to hear a message or someone tells them about this god. Why do you need to be saved? Because if you're not saved, you will go to hell. Otherwise, there'd not be a reason to get saved.

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
Yea he does want everyone on the same page. I wasn't practicing paganism. I just though I was a vampire at one point with red lights in my room. All that jizz.


lol... this thread is going to places I never thought.

It's cool to see where people are coming from.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

Is still wasn't frowned upon by the authors of the bible

that is wholly untrue. Paul condemns the practice of taking a man forcibly into slavery. You're rejecting the reality of indentured servitude in that time.

reply to post by Hydroman

Again, people who aren't raised in a church have to hear about god from somewhere. They don't just say, "Hey, I'm going to believe in this god though I've never heard about him." That's common sense.

They have to hear a message or someone tells them about this god. Why do you need to be saved? Because if you're not saved, you will go to hell. Otherwise, there'd not be a reason to get saved.

Have you considered there may be people who want to spend an eternity with the Creator of the universe? to have a fellowship with Him?

I've NEVER lived in fear of going to Hell. Is there any Christian here who has? Anyone?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You've claimed they did. Do you have any citations or sources for this? I've never met a Christian who has fear of God's hell before they believed in God. How can someone fear something they don't believe in?

Again, people who aren't raised in a church have to hear about god from somewhere. They don't just say, "Hey, I'm going to believe in this god though I've never heard about him." That's common sense.

They have to hear a message or someone tells them about this god. Why do you need to be saved? Because if you're not saved, you will go to hell. Otherwise, there'd not be a reason to get saved.

Not for me. I never knew about hell, never thought about it. never heard a sermon, never went to Church. I converted because everyone around me was smoking weed, having sex in my bedroom without my consent and I wanted to search for God and see what he was about. Found out he's just like me.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


if Paul was so passionate or against people being enslaved then why not use his writing to condemn it? If Jesus was all knowing, why wouldn't he condemn this obvious human suffering?

Perhaps i was wrong to say "all" authors of the bible, could you provide evidence or a source to back up your claim that Paul definetly rejected the idea of slavery?

And most Christians believe the words of the Vicars as they recite the bible, they read the Bible, not about Paul's personal ideas on slavery. If it's the word of God, you'd think it would be more cohesive.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Have you considered there may be people who want to spend an eternity with the Creator of the universe? to have a fellowship with Him?

I've NEVER lived in fear of going to Hell. Is there any Christian here who has? Anyone?

Yes, I have considered that, and that is how I believed. Yet, to be honest, hell was always in the back of my mind though I knew I wouldn't be going there.

Do you have fellowship with your god at this moment?

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Not for me. I never knew about hell, never thought about it. never heard a sermon, never went to Church. I converted because everyone around me was smoking weed, having sex in my bedroom without my consent and I wanted to search for God and see what he was about. Found out he's just like me.

How did you go about searching? And how is he just like you? And I would wager that your concept of god and noturtypical's concept of god are different though you both claim to be christian.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

if Paul was so passionate or against people being enslaved then why not use his writing to condemn it?

Okay, this will be the third time I've mentioned that Paul condemns taking men into captivity for slavery. Maybe the third time will be the charm. No one condemns indentured servant because that was entered into upon free-will of the servant.

A "dulos" in the Greek.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh

Not for me. I never knew about hell, never thought about it. never heard a sermon, never went to Church. I converted because everyone around me was smoking weed, having sex in my bedroom without my consent and I wanted to search for God and see what he was about. Found out he's just like me.

How did you go about searching? And how is he just like you? And I would wager that your concept of god and noturtypical's concept of god are different though you both claim to be christian.

edit on 22-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

I knew there was a big book that was sacred to people, so I gave it a shot and started to read it, called the bible. I honest to God never thought about hell even for a minute before that experience.

He's like me because he was chaste. I'm not always chaste but chase minded meaning I don't glorify in lust.

He was clean from drugs, loved animals and was childlike.

So he hit home with me on a personal level. I don't know about anybody else. But for me it did.


what's the wager? I bet you're wrong. Although he's protestant and I'm Catholic so you might be correct.


peace.