Did Jesus Really Make A Sacrifice?

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Christ died because his followers would not sacrifice for him. He taught ONE law, the law of God, to Love one another. How can you argue with THAT Law?

If the law of God is to love one another, then how is it that God himself didn't show much love to the Japanese people......all on account that they happen to live in North East Japan.

You can find that answer in this thread my friend.

ne bueno

Look for my comments within those pages.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Griffo


You know, I stopped listening to "Bob and Tom" for good one year after they made some remarks I didn't appreciate about Jesus rising from the dead, right before Easter. I think it might have had something to do with zombies, as a matter of fact. (And I really missed hearing Dick Vitale making his college basketball picks and comments too, darn.)

But, that was before I quit being a Catholic, and finding out Easter is, surprise, surprise, a pagan holiday!!

Christians should really be celebrating Passover, instead.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what some people believe.

Someday you may have the same experience that I had, and you might be putting up an entirely different kind of thread.

Happy Easter in advance!!

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky

Love is the virtue of wanting the best for the person you love. Earthquakes, tornadoes, cancer, gunshots, and heart disease are not Gods lack of love.....it is the natural world.

But God created the natural world, everything is under God's control.....so we are told.....the natural world creates a tsunami that is going to create immense suffering for both those that died and those that survived,.......... but God doesn't lift a finger, because he wants some people who happen to live in the path of the tsunami to "learn "

Why does anyone need to suffer just to learn?

Why should I or others be forced to play God's game without being even asked?

What is God................ some type of Gaddafi dictator?

Originally posted by IAMIAM

ne bueno


Your Brother

Thanks but my answer is much simpler.......God simply doesn't exist except in the imagination....sorry to break that revelation.....but it's the truth.....which I think you deserve to know.

Originally posted by Logical one
Thanks but my answer is much simpler.......God simply doesn't exist except in the imagination....sorry to break that revelation.....but it's the truth.....which I think you deserve to know.

I don't think you know the truth my friend. Thus, you are incapable of sharing it.

But, don't take my word for it. Just watch the world. My doctrine will be proved throughout this year and into the next.



Watch.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM


I don't think you know the truth my friend. Thus, you are incapable of sharing it.

But, don't take my word for it. Just watch the world. My doctrine will be proved throughout this year and into the next.

Watch.

With Love,

Your Brother

I know it's difficult to shake off centuries of false belief, but the sooner you realise that what you have thought to be true all these years, is indeed nothing more than a made up fairy story made up by man....for man, the better for you.

True love stems from the truth.....not from the lie you call God.

Originally posted by Logical one
I know it's difficult to shake off centuries of false belief, but the sooner you realise that what you have thought to be true all these years, is indeed nothing more than a made up fairy story made up by man....for man, the better for you.

True love stems from the truth.....not from the lie you call God.

edit on 14-3-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)

I appreciate you trying to be my savior my friend, but I assure you I do not need you to save me. I do not believe anything, I know.

If you are confident that you Know, then keep what you know.

All I ask is that you watch.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Logical one
I know it's difficult to shake off centuries of false belief, but the sooner you realise that what you have thought to be true all these years, is indeed nothing more than a made up fairy story made up by man....for man, the better for you.

True love stems from the truth.....not from the lie you call God.

edit on 14-3-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)

I appreciate you trying to be my savior my friend, but I assure you I do not need you to save me. I do not believe anything, I know.

If you are confident that you Know, then keep what you know.

All I ask is that you watch.

With Love,

Your Brother

I've been "watching" all my life but I see no God in this world.

God, Satan and Jesus are no more real than Zeus, Hades, and Perseus I'm afraid to tell you my friend

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky

Love is the virtue of wanting the best for the person you love. Earthquakes, tornadoes, cancer, gunshots, and heart disease are not Gods lack of love.....it is the natural world.

But God created the natural world, everything is under God's control.....so we are told.....the natural world creates a tsunami that is going to create immense suffering for both those that died and those that survived but God doesn't lift a finger because he wants some people who happen to live in the path of the tsunami to "learn "

Why does anyone need to suffer just to learn?

Why should I or others be forced to play God's game without being even asked?

What is God some type of Gaddafi dictator?

If you see what state the world is in, and has almost been since day one, you should be able to see that human kind will never be able to live in harmony and peace, on their own, unless they totally transform into something else. The Bible calls it being refined like gold and silver. Metals are refined by fire to take out the impurities.

Jesus WAS a sacrifice for ALL men, that means eventually each one of us will live in the perfect peace that God intends. We don't have to even believe in him to receive the benefit of what he did, even though, when God's plans are accomplished at last, we will all know him and we will all bow in acknowledgment of the wonderful gift he gave us. We will want to bow in praise of him. On that day, we will be able to look forward to a wonderful world full of peace and love.

This life is our transformation period, whatever we go through in this life is to transition us into a person fit for immortality.

It may seem cruel, but it is God's plan. Jesus sacrifice is part of that plan, but there is also a personal refining process we all have to be a part of.

For some it's dealing with the result of personal choices, for some it might be an illness, or having to deal with some disaster or other upheaval.

It's the only way we can become what we were meant to be before the fall of Adam. We were innocent then, but the more knowledge we receive, the more likely we are to do harm.

I believe in God, but I believed in that version that the Catholics and their offshoots teach, being punished in hell forever, if you didn't keep some set of impossible rules. Why even try?

It's much simpler than that.

Recently I found out that God is nothing like what I thought and what I had been taught. That's because I got to know him. And that's after some of the most terrible things I ever went through in my life.

God really is love, and total fairness.

Evil can't be allowed to be made immortal, because the world was meant to be perfect. It certainly isn't perfect right now, far from it, and hasn't been for a long time.

We all have to be refined into perfect love and fairness, and what happens in this life helps accomplish that for most people. It may seem cruel, but do you punish your children for doing wrong?

We pay a price somehow for everything we do that is wrong. Either in our bodies, or in our soul. Sometimes God uses a situation for a particular purpose, but even the Bible says sometimes things just happen because of the laws of nature.

But God has a plan.

Some, such as the EVILS and their minions, and the stooges who help them do evil, for money, may not get what they deserve when we think they should, but they will have to personally stand in front of God and pay an eye for and eye and maybe more, for what they did, they won't be burning in hell forever, though. They will be punished though, and they won't be in a position of power in the future age, even after they have all the evil purged out of them.

That honor will be accorded to those who went through their trial by fire in this life, who accepted what came their way with honor and dignity and love. Who helped their fellow humans, and evolved into a better person because of what they suffered in their life, whether because of natural disasters, deaths, or personal tragedy.

Call it human evolution, if you will, but sadness and suffering will really change a person from whatever they might have been before, and make them a better person.

The tragedy in Japan, and other places, is already changing not just the people directly affected, but also those of us that are just watching from afar, not everyone, but some, and maybe more and more as time goes on.

We are definitely approaching the end of an age, and we each have our personal part to play in it, an individual learning experience we need to endure to finish our transformations.

Lets look at this a little (By the way - first post)

The OP is stating his case. OK a little weak and almost one sided, but I feel written to provoke a reaction. Thus in provoking a reaction, justifies his own world view of Christians maybe.

While I cannot in anyway agree with your points, you have attempted to state your case with some respect - which is more than can be said for some of the other posters on many other threads. What nevers fails to surprise me on ATS is the willingness to throw all sorts of religious thoughts/metaphysical thoughts or concerns out there and be accepted, no matter how wacky. Yet when someone come along and simply states the truth of the gospel, they are jumped on, ridiculed, laughed at etc.

For me though, it is clear cut. Nobody has ver proven that Jesus DID NOT live, eat breathe, crucified, dead buried and rose again.

An honest an open minded look at the scriptures (Especially in light of current events and occurrances) might prove enlightening. However, I doubt that those who attack would bother in taking the time to do that as it may challenge their view.

Thankfully I have flown on many sides, from the occult through to Buddism and found that a belief in the messiah is what counts.

Now, onto the points -

To understand the Sacrifice of Jesus, you must forst have an understanding of the Mosaic Covenant. Lambs wer to be without spot or blemish. In short, with his sinless life he became the 'Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world'

His death was the fulfilment of many, many scriptures, as was his ressurection. Isaiah 53 being the prime example, but others such as Psalm 22, Isaiah 44 (Ithink) etc.

Now I fully expect to be labeled a fundemantal brainwashed idiot, but hey, I can handle that.

It is a shame that those who post subjects like this aren't into Religious Conspiracy per se, but simple CHristian bashing. Hey if you wnt to talk religious conspiracy, great. If you want to bash...well I'd rather not take part in mindless arguments.

reply to post by IAMIAM


A name does not matter you say? Okay well humbly I submit to you the following:

“His Name is above all other names” as Philippians 2:9 stated... which name then?

In Psalms 22:22 He said, we must “declare His Name”. Again, which name? A pagan name or a Set Apart Name?

He told Moses in Exodus 9:16, “But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may
show My power in you and that My Name may be declared in all the earth”. Again, is it so unimportant the Name?

“Who has ascended into the sky or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name and what is His Son’s Name, if you know”. -- Proverbs 30:4 YOU ARE BEING ASKED THIS QUESTION IAMIAM!

Therefore return to The Covenant Words of YAH and be immersed in the Name of YAHUW in YAHUWAH, the Eternal King of The Family of YAH (MeoshiYAch) for the coming forgiveness of your sins."--Matt. 4:17
Sooooooo we are to be immersed in The Name.... Just any name? I wouldnt gamble with a laysayfair attituded that the name is unimportant... thats just me...

"Blessed are you when people slander you, persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely because of My Name. Matt. 5:11 Okay so even then there were "issues" with THE NAME and those who would not accept the truth of it but had many OTHER names that they used.

Many will tell Me in that YAom, 'Lord, Lord’ did not we prophesy ‘in your Name’? Did we not cast out demons ‘in your Name’ and ‘in your Name,’ did we not do many mighty miracles?'
Then I will tell them, 'You never truly sought for Me, therefore you never came to know Me. Depart from Me, you who work lies.'--MATT 7:22&23 Yes "Lord" is from and his its roots in the word Baal, it is VERY VERY easy to research the root of this word and it's meaning. Many call men Lord, our Savior Lord yet the word is of Pagan origin... Here our Savior states clearly that these people called Him Lord and felt they were prophesying in His name yet He said YOU NEVER TRULY SOUGHT FOR ME! Does this make you uneasy? GOOD, It should! It means that you may be a TRUE and REAL seeker of The Word of YAH. Do not shoot the messenger but realize that you come here to ATS to find things that nobody else is going to tell you! Notice how the word "NAME" comes up several times in this scripture? Because A NAME DOES MATTER TO OUR SAVIOR even though it did not matter to those religious ones who were doing even miracles but not realizing the importance of His Name and seeking the truth of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IAMIAM is this causing you to appreciate a name or is your pride welling up inside of you even now? FIGHT IT MY FRIEND..... FIGHT IT HARD... BREAK THROUGH!

"Do not treat My Name YAHUWAH Almighty Loving YA of All Creation as unimportant for I cannot hold him sinless who treats My Name as unimportant, for it is The First Gate of Salvation!" IAMIAM do you recognize this very important Commandment? Do you think a Name is unimportant? IT IS VERY IMPORTANT because it is THE FIRST GATE OF SALVATION! The name YaHuWdaH those people named for HIS NAME had a key in their name to unlock truth! it was the "d" or dalet or D O O R in translation... This was to allow a seeker to realize how to go through the Gate or Doorway to Salvation... how to unlock with the key of knowledge....

I hope that I am not throwing pearls here and that this info which is only a very very small amount of info on this topic will bless you and that your heart will accept the importance of "The Name above all other names" YaHuWaH the risen YaHuW!

Blessings...

reply to post by Coopersbrew




You wrote:

[" What nevers fails to surprise me on ATS is the willingness to throw all sorts of religious thoughts/metaphysical thoughts or concerns out there and be accepted, no matter how wacky."]

Let's see what christian ethics can do, when it gets its little hands on adjectives. Here 'all sorts of religious thoughts/metaphysics' is potentially 'wacky'.

Quote: ["Yet when someone come along and simply states the truth of the gospel, they are jumped on, ridiculed, laughed at etc."]

Here it's the 'truth' of the gospel. Hallelujah brethren and sistren, isn't it a gift from the lord, what we can do with language. Unsullied by any kind of reality.

Dude, christianity is a wacky as anything presented on ATS, sometimes it can even function as a role-model for small and upcoming wacklings. And I noticed, that while you were at it, you sneaked in the persecution clichée.

Quote: [" For me though, it is clear cut. Nobody has ver proven that Jesus DID NOT live, eat breathe, crucified, dead buried and rose again."]

The reason for it being so clear cut is probably, that you consider 'logic' as a satanic plot. Nobody has ever proven, that the spaghetti monster doesn't live either.

Quote: ["An honest an open minded look at the scriptures (Especially in light of current events and occurrances) might prove enlightening. However, I doubt that those who attack would bother in taking the time to do that as it may challenge their view."]

An honest and open minded look at science and logic, may be even more enlightening. However this could challenge christian absurdities.

And btw, why do you think that opponents to christianity haven't read the 'scriptures'. It's more than likely, that they HAVE read them, and from that have decided on a critical position.

Quote: ["To understand the Sacrifice of Jesus, you must forst have an understanding of the Mosaic Covenant. Lambs wer to be without spot or blemish. In short, with his sinless life he became the 'Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world' "]

So scripture proves scripture. Hi Dude, why didn't anyone think of this before, it's brilliant.

Quote: ["His death was the fulfilment of many, many scriptures, as was his ressurection. Isaiah 53 being the prime example, but others such as Psalm 22, Isaiah 44 (Ithink) etc"]

I can see, you're getting the hang of it.

Quote: ["Now I fully expect to be labeled a fundemantal brainwashed idiot,..."]

You said it...But usually that kind of name-calling is more prominent from the holy side.

Quote: ["but hey, I can handle that."]

Yes, one does get pretty thick-skinned after a while. Doesn't one? I also have my own list of character defects, which our resident followers of the golden rule kindly have informed me about. For my own good ofcourse.

Quote: ["It is a shame that those who post subjects like this aren't into Religious Conspiracy per se, but simple CHristian bashing."]

Hey, that's not fair. My neighbour worships an astral entity from Orion (on this earth disguised as a small green frog), and I bash him every time I get a chance. Neighbour, if you read this, consider yourself good and bashed.

Quote: ["If you want to bash...well I'd rather not take part in mindless arguments."]

Mindless defined as...disagreeing with you, perhaps.

Summa: Jesus' death is a cosmic bank-card with unlimited credit. The price for this card is your soul. To justify this weird kind of business proposal scripture has another tale, that of original sin. And then, to validate original sin christians have to invent a special branch of pedagogics, where a schizoid father can make life miserable for his children, and still be the good guy. And it goes on, and on and on in ever increasing circular argumentation resulting in something like the post I've just commented on.

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES


The really heavy guys, you know those who go and take a look for themselves instead of just babbling about 'what's written'...


.....actually call whateverisoutthere 'the nameless'.

This is possibly against your doctrines, and thus heretic or something. Nonetheless it's guys saying things like that, who usually start what later becomes religions.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
A name does not matter you say? Okay well humbly I submit to you the following:

“His Name is above all other names” as Philippians 2:9 stated... which name then?

It is above ALL other names. It is beyond any name that man gives it. To be able to name it is to bring it to the level of Man, it is beyond man, thus it has no name.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
In Psalms 22:22 He said, we must “declare His Name”. Again, which name? A pagan name or a Set Apart Name?

Like the Pagans, some in the Jewish faith have come to Idolise the WORD as a NAME, when it never was a name to begin with. It is a description. YhWh, I am that I am, or "being". It isn't a name at all, but rather a description of that which can never be named.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
He told Moses in Exodus 9:16, “But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may
show My power in you and that My Name may be declared in all the earth”. Again, is it so unimportant the Name?

13And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. 14For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. 17As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go?

As you can see, once again it is not a name, but a title LORD. The almighty, the magnificent, that which is over all. It is not the name, but what the name means that is of relevance.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
“Who has ascended into the sky or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name and what is His Son’s Name, if you know”. -- Proverbs 30:4 YOU ARE BEING ASKED THIS QUESTION IAMIAM!

Again, it is beyond a name. any word that means that which is beyond our understanding, God, YhWh, the great spirit, the creator, all mean that which is beyond what we can know. As for his son's name, I AM.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
Therefore return to The Covenant Words of YAH and be immersed in the Name of YAHUW in YAHUWAH, the Eternal King of The Family of YAH (MeoshiYAch) for the coming forgiveness of your sins."--Matt. 4:17
Sooooooo we are to be immersed in The Name.... Just any name? I wouldnt gamble with a laysayfair attituded that the name is unimportant... thats just me...

Where did you get that scripture? Here is Matthew 4:17...

16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. "Blessed are you when people slander you, persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely because of My Name. Matt. 5:11 Okay so even then there were "issues" with THE NAME and those who would not accept the truth of it but had many OTHER names that they used.

What is Christ saying here? Blessed are you when people slander and persecute you in MY Name. Is a Christian persecuted in Christs name when they are put to death by a tyrranical government? NO.

Is a homosexual persecuted in Christ's name when they are condemned by CHRISTians? Yes!!

My friend, I am not turning to rend you, but trying to open your eyes. Much of the Scripture you have distorted so I will not address it.

The name is not important. Christ came to correct the idolatry of worshipping a name. He came to remind the Jews of their covenant with God, to love one another. They were told to not take false idols. Instead they turned the name into an Idol. They would be wise to repent.

Christ told his followers "Anything you ask in MY name, I will do." And he bid his followers to do likewise.

Therefore, I say to you anything you ask in MY name, I will do. This is not taking the place of God, for we are supposed to glorify the father through our actions.

Why do people not believe in God these days? Because his supposed followers do not glorify HIM through their actions. They preach, but do not do. They judge, rather than love. They do not see God within each other, they see God only in words.

Repent.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Repent... yes and in all humility too! Because there is much I have and do repent from.

I wish you the best in your journey and I would say only this about this serious topic:


MarkUW 3:
28 Most assuredly, I tell you, all of the sins of the children of adam (unbelieving mankind) can be forgiven, including their blasphemies
29 except whoever blasphemes against The Name of YAHUWAH which is His RUWach QadUWsha (Set Apart Spirit of YaHuWaH) can never have forgiveness but is guilty of an eternal sin (see the third Covenant Commandment “I cannot hold him sinless who treats My Name as unimportant”Mt19,Mk10).

P.S. Think not in terms of man's religions or church teachings but rather SEEK TRUTHS set apart from ALL religions of this world!

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Repent... yes and in all humility too! Because there is much I have and do repent from.

I wish you the best in your journey and I would say only this about this serious topic:


MarkUW 3:
28 Most assuredly, I tell you, all of the sins of the children of adam (unbelieving mankind) can be forgiven, including their blasphemies
29 except whoever blasphemes against The Name of YAHUWAH which is His RUWach QadUWsha (Set Apart Spirit of YaHuWaH) can never have forgiveness but is guilty of an eternal sin (see the third Covenant Commandment “I cannot hold him sinless who treats My Name as unimportant”Mt19,Mk10).

P.S. Think not in terms of man's religions or church teachings but rather SEEK TRUTHS set apart from ALL religions of this world!

You do not know who I am my friend.

You were also warned not to add to or take away from scripture.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

But don't take my word for it my friend. As I tell everyone, just watch. My words will be proved before the year is out.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Jesus also clearly supported the law of the Old Testament and thought that it was a clear representation of the idea of loving one another...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Jesus also clearly supported the law of the Old Testament and thought that it was a clear representation of the idea of loving one another...

This is not accurate my friend. Jesus clearly supported the Ten Commandments, but felt that the Pharasees had strayed from their original intent and meaning with the Mosaic Laws that followed. He healed on the Sabbath day, taught against the "eye for an eye" doctrine, condemned the system of Judges, and counted the Priest class as hypocrites, and even went so far as to throw the money lenders out of the temple. Remember, the money lenders were there because it was the practice to purchase animals to sacrifice in atonement for transgressions against the Mosaic Law. Kinda like the Catholic Church selling salvation today.

His death was a fulfilment of the old testament prophecies, and his Law was the law upon which all the Ten Commandments were built.

Love one another.

With Love,

Your Brother

I'd love to join this discussion but i think IAMIAM has it covered...

Well said bro

reply to post by IAMIAM


You wrote:

["His death was a fulfilment of the old testament prophecies, and his Law was the law upon which all the Ten Commandments were built."]

Scripture proving scripture?

And for what purpose; to establish an imaginary copyright on knowledge, ethics, social systems and 'personal mind-space' all conceptualized and practised better somewhere else?