Did Jesus Really Make A Sacrifice?

Jesus was condemned by the Jewish High-Priest...
...sentance was handed down by Roman courts...
...and the execution was carried out by Romans soldiers.

Romans were experts at killing...
...if the Romans released His body for burial then He was dead.

The only thing that explains the transformation of the disciples...
...from cowards to men willing to face death themselves...
...is that the physical resurrection of Jesus actually happened.

The resurrection stories break in seven ways from contempary or historical...
...views of death and afterlife...
...so either the resurrection stories are true...
...or you accept that a handful of fisherman produced a philosophical shift...
...that has survived 2000 years of human history.

As to the reason for Jesus death...

I don't think that any of the 'theories of atonement' historically or currently held...
...fully explain the purpose of Jesus death...
...I personally think Jesus death was primarily a precursor to resurrection...
...and that its purpose was actually a way of reclaiming soveriegnty...
...and a state of spiritual connection and the abolishion of death for humans...
...that was lost or taken away by the actions of the fallen Watchers.

So Jesus death was a 'sacrifice' in the sense that it was toward the end of resurrection...
...but was not a sacrifice in the sense of appeasing...
...some celestial Shylock demanding his pound of flesh.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Do you mention Gandhi and Mandela to give yourself liberal credence? I don't give a fig for Gandhi, for Subhas Bose did the hard work, and Gandhi took the credit. Gandhi was not an admirable person in many ways. Nelson Mandela [again] took credit for, or was given credit for, the end of aparheid, but now that it is over, the blacks are openly discussing the final solution to the White Problem. Yes, extermination. You applaud this?

I just wrote down the first two names that came into my head. As you've probably seen in one of my other posts here, I mentioned that: if we were talking about the amount of pain = the higher (or more important) the sacrifice then the unfortunate people in Auschwitz and many other death camps would be more important

As for your last paragraph, one, single, perfect human life was acceptable to God. If we identify with that Life, then we, too, are acceptable to God, at least provisionally. After Glorification, as it says somewhere in the New Testament [I'm not a good chapter/verse person], the we will be like Him. Is that possible? I'm watching and waiting to find out...

But god is supposedly all powerful and all knowing, why would he create a rule in the first place that he knew he would have to break 2000 years later? And if he was all powerful, why couldn't he just remove it. Instead of "LOL guise, I'm going to impregnate a woman, who will give birth to myself, so I can remove a law that I created in the first place"

Good luck with the zealots, Griffo.

Like the post - S+F

I think i'll let the Pooh-storm of butthurt ensue, and watch with amusement.

here's some Hitchslap for other user's enjoyment:-

Yeah, this is the same God who described Himself as married to two sisters Israel and Judah, in one of His denunciations of their sins. So, in doing this, He portrayed Himself as a bigamist to make a point. If He is sovereign, and He certainly is, having made all that is, who are we to question what He does? We can't even get our limited, three-dimensional, sense-bound minds around it. We can still believe it, however. The basic mistake the scoffers make is that they think they are sovereign enough to pass judgement on One who is truly sovereign. Best to know your place in the great scheme of things.

Love your neighbor - Jesus

All you need is love - Beatles

Socrates had said, individuals will prefer to die then to change.

I am amused by the fight to the death separation that occurs at this site.

Nation, Gender, Orientation, etc;

Humanity is racist towards itself.

reply to post by zroth


I get dibs on Beatlism. It's a new religion. It's a poly-theistic religion - There are multiple Gods. We've got Lucy the god of skies filled with diamonds, and we've got the Walrus - god of the...walrusses. The main commandment is just "love", hyms are the beatles greatest hits and followers will believe our savior who was shot for all human sin is coming back.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Who are we to question what He does?

It's human nature, we question everything. It isn't good to blindly follow without asking questions

We can't even get our limited, three-dimensional, sense-bound minds around it.

We seem to be doing pretty good so far. We already have a far greater understanding of the world around us than anyone in history ever has. We will eventually find out the origin of the universe and what happened before it; the different dimensions; explore the entirety of the universe.

The zombies would have been one of the first things I wrote about.

reply to post by Griffo


I'm going to sacrifice myself to myself for the sake of humanity so that I can forgive humanity for violating my rules.

Yep, totally made a sacrifice. Not a meaningful one or one that was necessary in any way, shape, or form...but it was a sacrifice.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Griffo

 

I'm going to sacrifice myself to myself for the sake of humanity so that I can forgive humanity for violating my rules.

Yep, totally made a sacrifice. Not a meaningful one or one that was necessary in any way, shape, or form...but it was a sacrifice.

This is NOT what Christ did my friend.

Christ died because his followers would not sacrifice for him. He taught ONE law, the law of God, to Love one another. How can you argue with THAT Law?

His death was a lesson in how we should love one another. We should love one another to be willing to die, rather than harm another, even rather than harm those who wish to kill us.

Christ was NOT God, nor did he claim to be. He was merely teaching God's Law.

Too many of his supposed followers have screwed up his story, so I understand your confusion on the matter.

I could back up these claims with scripture if you'd like.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Griffo


We all make sacrifices in life

There are many parts of Christianity that get overlooked.

1. It is an extension of the Jewish faith, where animal sacrifices were offered in atonement of the sins of the believers.

2. A priest had to offer this sacrifice as a holocaust (burnt offering) at the temple.

3. Offering ones own son as sacrifice is prefigured in Old Test. when God asked Abraham to offer up his son Isaac. Abraham was obedient, and Isaac was spared...but God proved to us He would not ask us to do anything He would not be willing to do (sacrifice His own son).

4. Jesus is prefigured in the story of Joseph and his brothers in the Old Testament. Joseph is betrayed by his bothers (isreal) and is then raised to greatness by God, having the power to forgive the brothers sins.

There are hundreds more examples in the OT. What it means...Jesus had a choice, at any moment he could release himself from the bonds of Earth and be relieved of his torment, but he chose to be the Pascal Sacrifice...he offered Himself, once and for all, for all the sins of mankind. That is why His torment is called His Passion, because it is what He wanted....He wanted us to be able to enjoy eternal life with Him.

PS Saints come back to life are not Zombies!!! They are resurrected persons body and soul, just like Jesus.

Larry Richards says it better than I can here.....www.youtube.com...

Hee is another explanation of why Jesus had to do it the way he did...www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Lazarus Short God the Father also sacrificed, offering up His Son, much as Abraham [almost] offered up Isaac. Do not take this Gift lightly, it is precious beyond measure...

You scoffers will have your reward, but why not accept the better Gift???

This just illustrates how contradictory the bible is.

God who we are told made the whole Universe, but only had one son, we are told made a huge sacrifice by offering up his son.
That then indicates that God must have emotions and feelings.........which means he also has a weakness.

But hang on......God is supposed to be omnipotent and all perfect.......so which is it.......then?

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by Lazarus Short God the Father also sacrificed, offering up His Son, much as Abraham [almost] offered up Isaac. Do not take this Gift lightly, it is precious beyond measure...

You scoffers will have your reward, but why not accept the better Gift???

This just illustrates how contradictory the bible is.

God who we are told made the whole Universe, but only had one son, we are told made a huge sacrifice by offering up his son.
That then indicates that God must have emotions and feelings.........which means he also has a weakness.

But hang on......God is supposed to be omnipotent and all perfect.......so which is it.......then?

God did not have one Son. This is ridiculous theology. This belief comes from John 3:16 which was added to the scriptures to make Christ a Sun God that Rome could control. It was never ever said by Christ himself.

Christ called all of his followers children of God. That was his whole teaching, that we are God's children.

God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omnibenevolent, and Omniscient.

For God to be all these things, it must exist within all of us and must be all good. Anyone who tells you anything differently is obviously lost sight of the greater definition of God. The lesser can never be the Greater.

We do painful things to each other because we hurt from not doing good things to each other. No one is born wanting to hurt others. It is learned behavior and the result of being hurt.

Which is why Christ taught to love each other and to not judge each other. Judgement is left to God and God alone.

All we are to do is Love one another.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Christ died because his followers would not sacrifice for him. He taught ONE law, the law of God, to Love one another. How can you argue with THAT Law?

If the law of God is to love one another, then how is it that God himself didn't show much love to the Japanese people......all on account that they happen to live in North East Japan.

The short answer is No He Did NOT! However.... YaHuW Yasha (savior) did!

Jesus means Cursed is Zeus
The letter "J" was invented 500 years ago (See Websters)
Jesus came from IESUS.
IeSUS was a construct name of the roman circe or church.
IeSUS means THE SON OF ZEUS

If you do the research, the name JESUS was never in any of the ancient documents that are in the museums of the world.

5700 AHlenic (Hellenic, Greek), IbreUW, Syriac, Coptic and even some Latin New Testament Near-Original (200-770 AY) texts and most up to 1300 AY call our Savior IHY, IY, IHU, IOU, IV, IW or IU. These are all pronounced “YAHUW”. All non-Catholic texts say “YAHUW” in various dialectics of AHlenic. These include the famous P-45, P-46, P-72, Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandrius, Vaticanus and Ephraemi. Not one early AHlenic text contradicts this!

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
The short answer is No He Did NOT! However.... YaHuW Yasha (savior) did!

Jesus means Cursed is Zeus
The letter "J" was invented 500 years ago (See Websters)
Jesus came from IESUS.
IeSUS was a construct name of the roman circe or church.
IeSUS means THE SON OF ZEUS

If you do the research, the name JESUS was never in any of the ancient documents that are in the museums of the world.

5700 AHlenic (Hellenic, Greek), IbreUW, Syriac, Coptic and even some Latin New Testament Near-Original (200-770 AY) texts and most up to 1300 AY call our Savior IHY, IY, IHU, IOU, IV, IW or IU. These are all pronounced “YAHUW”. All non-Catholic texts say “YAHUW” in various dialectics of AHlenic. These include the famous P-45, P-46, P-72, Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandrius, Vaticanus and Ephraemi. Not one early AHlenic text contradicts this!

Oh bother, here we go muddying the waters again...

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

What is more important my friend, the name or the teachings that were taught under the name?

Did Jesus or Yahuwah or Yeshua or Yeshua ben Joseph or what ever say "I give you a new commandment, KNOW MY NAME?"

No, he said "I give you a new commandment, love one another."

I don't care if it was satan who gave that commandment, it is truth, and it is what matters.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Christ died because his followers would not sacrifice for him. He taught ONE law, the law of God, to Love one another. How can you argue with THAT Law?

If the law of God is to love one another, then how is it that God himself didn't show much love to the Japanese people......all on account that they happen to live in North East Japan.

Love is the virtue of wanting the best for the person you love. Earthquakes, tornadoes, cancer, gunshots, and heart disease are not Gods lack of love.....it is the natural world. It is only in suffering that we can grow and learn to love more deeply. Like a good parent or teacher who allows a child to suffer through the growing pains of school and adolescent relationships, a loving God allows us to suffer with death. Death can be overcome through faith. We learn to trust faith through suffering. This is what Jesus sacrifice was all about.