If the Illuminati control Masonry I do not care

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
No, because I provided the evidence to show they all do/show the same hand gesture. Its in the Masonic Library.

The pictures you posted show no one communicating with anyone else. Do you know why? Because you have failed to establish, what, if anything, they are communicating.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The illuminati do NOT control the freemasons in any shape or form; the higher freemasons are far more intelligent and professional than the illuminati where most are just spoilt offspring of their fathers or grandfathers who in fact EARNED their family wealth.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
No, because I provided the evidence to show they all do/show the same hand gesture. Its in the Masonic Library.

The pictures you posted show no one communicating with anyone else. Do you know why? Because you have failed to establish, what, if anything, they are communicating.

A failure to establish WHAT someone is communicating = no one is communicating? Is that what you are suggesting?

Symbolism IS communication. Sign Language IS communication.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
A failure to establish WHAT someone is communicating = no one is communicating? Is that what you are suggesting?

Yes, a sign that means nothing means exactly that.

Symbolism IS communication. Sign Language IS communication.

Then what does this alleged symbol mean?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Yes, a sign that means nothing means exactly that.

I didnt ask you about a sign that means nothing.

Thats not what you said.

You said "The pictures you posted show no one communicating with anyone else. Do you know why? Because you have failed to establish, what, if anything, they are communicating."

Is that what you believe? That "A failure to establish WHAT someone is communicating = no one is communicating?"

Thats what it seems you may be suggesting. I just want to confirm you actually believe that if you cant esablish WHAT someone is communicating that no communication is going on.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Then what does this alleged symbol mean?

Are you an auto bot script or something? I've already answer that question.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Then what does this alleged symbol mean?

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
Are you an auto bot script or something? I've already answer that question.

Great, let us start with this instead. You feel it means someone is conveying affiliation of some sort. What affiliation? Where is the supporting evidence that it conveys anything, let alone affliliation?

I didnt ask you about a sign that means nothing.

Thats not what you said.

You said "The pictures you posted show no one communicating with anyone else. Do you know why? Because you have failed to establish, what, if anything, they are communicating."

Is that what you believe? That "A failure to establish WHAT someone is communicating = no one is communicating?"

Thats what it seems you may be suggesting. I just want to confirm you actually believe that if you cant esablish WHAT someone is communicating that no communication is going on.

If you do not know what it means then how can you possibly establish that it is a form of communication. You are only s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-n-g that it is a mode of communication. You initially infered it was Masonic; the Masons here know better and have explained otherwise. You can claim that it is anything you want, you obviously have no backup to support the position.

No where in Masonry does a symbol like that occur. Masons do not flash the 'M' sign at each other to annouce fraternal affiliation. You can posit that it is some other secret society using this to communicate. If so, why the 'M'? What does it mean?

Masons do not flash the 'M' sign at each other to annouce fraternal affiliation.

LIAR!

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Great, let us start with this instead. You feel it means someone is conveying affiliation of some sort. What affiliation? Where is the supporting evidence that it conveys anything, let alone affliliation?

I dont need to answer that for my claim to hold up. I posted the facts that the hand gesture is there. Intent is now up at stake.

I dont have all the answers. I came here for answers, but no one has them.. Thats okay. I can admit I dont have all the answers...

The reason im here is because I was told by someone that does extensive sign language/symbolic communications that certain hand signs have certain meanings. Maybe its a rich peoples club, because him and all his friends are wealthy. Over 100m wealthy.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If you do not know what it means then how can you possibly establish that it is a form of communication. You are only s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-n-g that it is a mode of communication. You initially infered it was Masonic; the Masons here know better and have explained otherwise. You can claim that it is anything you want, you obviously have no backup to support the position.

As I said above, I was told by someone that DOES IT that it means something. Which is why im here. I thought people here would know. Its okay if you dont know what it represents. I will still find out.

I said it may have Masonic affiliations and connections. I know its not taught in Masonic Manuals.

Even in the online business world I see people doing these signs. And I know some of them hang around the same million /billionaire crowd as my friend. And its guys that have influence, control, and money that do it. Not some regular old mason that holds no real influence in the world.

You really cant compare ATS masons to wealthy million and billionaires. Please dont ask me to reveal any names, it won't happen. My relationships with these people is more important than pleasing an internet poster. Im sure you understand.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
No where in Masonry does a symbol like that occur. Masons do not flash the 'M' sign at each other to annouce fraternal affiliation. You can posit that it is some other secret society using this to communicate. If so, why the 'M'? What does it mean?

You mean no where except in the Masonic Manual I posted that has the hand sign in there? And except all the Masonic art work. If you exclude all the Masonic art work and the photo from your own Manual, then yes, its no where to be found.

I never said Masons do this hand sign .. atleast not as a rule in freemasonry and taught in freemasonry.

I also never said it definitely represents an 'M'- it LOOKS like an 'M' and potentially could represent an 'M'.

As for another society, maybe Martinism? I dont know much about Martinism. Isnt it connected to Masonry in a way?

Just speculating, because I dont know.

Martinism is esoteric Christianity? It says it in wikipedia , though im not sure.

If they are doing an 'M'.. and it is Martinism.. Maybe theres a possibility they took some of the symbolic language from judeo christian art..Because in Judeo Christian art, they used hand gestures to communicate meaning. And some of the hand signs are similar. I didnt purchase the study or have any work on it so I dont have are refrence for it.

Just speculating.

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
I dont need to answer that for my claim to hold up. I posted the facts that the hand gesture is there. Intent is now up at stake.

No, you are positing that it is a hand gesture and not just they way people can typically hold their hands. I am fairly sure you could find thousands of pictures of people holding their hands in an entirely different posture.

The reason im here is because I was told by someone that does extensive sign language/symbolic communications that certain hand signs have certain meanings. Maybe its a rich peoples club, because him and all his friends are wealthy. Over 100m wealthy.

So your friend said it meant something then failed to tell you? How juevenile.

As I said above, I was told by someone that DOES IT that it means something. Which is why im here. I thought people here would know. Its okay if you dont know what it represents. I will still find out.

Maybe you should ask the person who claims it means something. Just a thought.

I said it may have Masonic affiliations and connections. I know its not taught in Masonic Manuals.

then why cite Masonic sources to support your claim. Either it is Masonic or it is not.

Even in the online business world I see people doing these signs. And I know some of them hang around the same million /billionaire crowd as my friend. And its guys that have influence, control, and money that do it. Not some regular old mason that holds no real influence in the world.

You really cant compare ATS masons to wealthy million and billionaires. Please dont ask me to reveal any names, it won't happen. My relationships with these people is more important than pleasing an internet poster. Im sure you understand.

Since you are so tight with these people then what are you doing screwing around here? Ask them, you are obviously under the impression that they have the answer.

You mean no where except in the Masonic Manual I posted that has the hand sign in there? And except all the Masonic art work. If you exclude all the Masonic art work and the photo from your own Manual, then yes, its no where to be found.

Once again, you are speculating that it is a form of communication and not simply the way the image was drawn. It is not cited in the artwork or manual as anything of note so it therefore has no relevance to Masons. Masonic ritual is rather to the point in it inference when it comes to performing said ritual in lodge, i.e. the Master walks here, the Deacons go there, the word is given thusly, etc.

Just speculating.

Precisely.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

This alleged ruling cabal is either non-existant or completely ineffectual at controlling the ones supposedly under their power.

"Inside the Brotherhood"

I fail to find any evidence that the Freemasons are generally influenced by the revolutionary politics of the Bavarian Illuminati; on the contrary.

There are, of course, many different esoteric societies in the world, including independent lodges which are not considered "regular" by the United Grand Lodge of England, such as the O.T.O., who are essentially members of an Aleister Crowley fanclub; they are "Thelemic" revolutionaries and "are" clearly influenced by Illuminist ideals in the positive sense, however they consider Crowley to be the prophet of the New Aeon, not Adam Weishaupt, who was essentially a Christian Deist, whereas we Thelemites are universally and evangelically anti-Christian.

One must also consider the various French lodges, some of which do have a reputation for radical politics, however with regards to "regular" Freemasonry, I fail to find a radical political agenda; on the contrary regular Masonry appears to be a club for evangelical Capitalists.

American Masonry: a comedy of Neo-McCarthyists.

In the United States, since a third of all regular Masons are also members of the Shriners and / or the Jesters, Masonry in the US seems just to be a social club where many adherents have rather ridiculous and childish rituals and use their membership as an excuse for drunken parties and having sex with prostitutes; this has absolutely nothing to do with Illuminist ideals; further most US Masons appear to be Neo-MacCarthyist anti-Communists, anti-Socialists and evangelical Capitalists and Nationalists; if there has been an attempt to infiltrate American Masonry by political radicals, it seems to have entirely failed.

British Masonry: a society of evangelical Capitalists.

Over here in the UK while British Masons seem to take their esoteric society with greater seriousness, it appears to be essentially an organsation of Capitalists, which men join who wish to rise up the Capitalist food chain and which has a long legacy of having aristocratic Grand Masters such as the late pro-Nazi Duke of Kent (1902 – 1942) and the current Duke of Kent who is our current theocratic dictator's cousin; hadly what one would expect from a society of Jacobins.

The various bizzare conspiracy theories regarding Masonry sem to be mostly ridiculous, such as the clams that that they are "Satanists" or "Shape Shifting Reptiles," or human sacrifice cultists, and can be easily refuted, but not so the allegations by Martin Short in his classic "Inside the Brotherhood: Explosive Secrets of the Freemasons: Further Secrets of the Freemasons."

Martin Short is an investigative journalist and a Cambridge history graduate; he is not a "conspiracy theorist" who promotes the more bizzarre conspiracy theorists about Masonry. Having read Short's classic work, the "secrets" he reveals are not "esoteric" secrets, but rather the nature of a financially incestuous gang of organised Capitalists who have become "the" Capitalist establishment. This further refutes the idea that the Masons have been infiltrated by the proponents of the radical politics of the 18th century lluminists; on the contrary, if such an attempt to infiltrate Masony was made, it has been entirely unsuccessful; and it seems to me that the Masons who have radical politics are by far a tiny minority, are mostly members of "irregular" esoteric societies, and are not representative of Masonry in general.

Lux

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

 

The reason is quite simple. They have obviously done a terrible job.

or maybe that's what they want you to think.

so what if I admitted right here and now that we are aligned with the Illuminati? What will you to stop us? Huh? You couldn't do anything.

If the Illuminati control Masonry, that would be great, since the Illuminati are the good guys.

Of course this is an illuminati-bashing Forum so I better run out and *duck*.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
The various bizzare conspiracy theories regarding Masonry sem to be mostly ridiculous, such as the clams that that they are "Satanists" or "Shape Shifting Reptiles," or human sacrifice cultists, and can be easily refuted, but not so the allegations by Martin Short in his classic "Inside the Brotherhood: Explosive Secrets of the Freemasons: Further Secrets of the Freemasons."

Welcome to ATS, my fellow brother...

Originally posted by fordrew
so what if I admitted right here and now that we are aligned with the Illuminati? What will you to stop us? Huh? You couldn't do anything.

I find no evidence whatsoever that the "regular" Masons have anything to do with the proto-Anarchism of the 18th century Illuminati; on the contrary Masons in general appear to be fully committed to armed, violent "Capitalist" revolution and the ideals of Anglo-American state terrorism / narci-terrorism and Capitalist imperialism in general; even the Grand Master of English Masonry holds the highest rank in our monarch's army and is entirely aristocratic; the 18th century Illuminists were on the other hand commited to the overthrowal of all monarchies and of the aristocracy.

Masonry in my judgement is just another Capitalist gang with Messianic tendencies who are mostly defenders of the current International Dictatorship of Capitalism and who are rather the "enemies" of Illuminist revolution in general.

As to "What is to be done?" regarding the Capitalist establishment in general, they do of course appear to have the upper hand at this point in human history, however we homo sapiens have been on this planet for probably around 300,000 years and we may well still be here in another 300,000 years. Socialist revolution will not be confined to a single generation or even to a single century. An idea is harder to kill than any temporal organisation and the pens of the philosophers can shed more blood than any living tyrant or general, for they can live from generation to generation.

"Nothing would be more profitable to us than a right history of mankind. Despotism has robbed them of their liberty. How can the weak obtain protection? Only by union; but this is rare. Nothing can bring this about but hidden societies. Hidden schools of wisdom are the means which will one day free men from their bonds. These have in all ages been the archives of nature, and the rights of men; and by them shall human nature be raised from her fallen state. Princes and nations shall vanish from the earth. The human race will then become one family, and the world will be the dwelling of Rational Men." Adam Weishaupt

Words are weapons. Physics is War. Propaganda is the first stage of war.

Lux

"We are legion. We shall prevail."

The thing is there's rouge elements to just about every government and i'm sure these rouge elements of different country's are working together and have high powered people from all walks of life working for them these are TPTB but some prefer to call them the Illuminati if there are any links to the Bavarian Illuminati i'm not sure, but the agenda is completely different then what the Bavarian Illuminati wanted but sometimes over time things change, again i'm not saying there linked but these rouge elements made up of black ops from various countries who have established powerful people to be withen there ranks do have a agenda and it's not good and are some of these people Masons!!!! of course and some aren't however the Masons that are part of the agenda called the higher ups work completely oblivious of the by laws of Masonry and do there own thing, that seems the most logical conclusion to the theory regarding Masonry in conection to TPTB...

reply to post by King Seesar


and in your rendition, it would seem that just because some of the world leaders may or may not be masons, masonry as whole cannot be blamed for any fictitious assault on freedom. It would seem that masonry as a group, has nothing at all to do with any world takeover, anymore than the Lions club might. This is the fundamental argument that masons on this site have been trying to get across for as long as I have been reading posts here. We have our own things going on and have no desire to rule anything in craft masonry.

reply to post by network dude


That's not really what i was trying to convey, what i was implying is this rouge element (TPTB) do in some cases if TPTB have you on there radar and your a mason and they need you for some reason or could benefit from you on there side then there agents that are involved in masonry will try and recruit you through the masonic lodge even tho it's illegal by the by laws of masonry they don't care they operate on a non-human level in terms of there emotions it's just a job to them to further the agenda of what ever they have planed and make no mistake it's not just masonry most of if isn't not in America anyway, Europe more so but heck they will try and recruit you through the churches the entertainment industry what ever agenda they need use for.....

I talked about that movie on here before the Good Shepherd starring Matt Damon which shows a real look into how the CIA operates well anyway there's one part where the CIA members are having a formal dinner together and they pledge to the CIA before they pledge to God or anything else, these are the types of people were dealing with as a mater of fact there's a thread on here where a mason was told by another mason who got info from some people to get ready for the new wrold order or something along those lines, my take on the situation is they studied the mason they TPTB approached him and figured they could use him for something and knew he would be quiet well they thought wrong and the mason did the honorable thing and spoke out about it and his mason friend posted the warnning on here because as he said doing the right thing is more important then anything.... something my friend TPTB don't do.....

Originally posted by Lucifer777
American Masonry: a comedy of Neo-McCarthyists.

In the United States, since a third of all regular Masons are also members of the Shriners and / or the Jesters, Masonry in the US seems just to be a social club where many adherents have rather ridiculous and childish rituals and use their membership as an excuse for drunken parties and having sex with prostitutes; this has absolutely nothing to do with Illuminist ideals; further most US Masons appear to be Neo-MacCarthyist anti-Communists, anti-Socialists and evangelical Capitalists and Nationalists; if there has been an attempt to infiltrate American Masonry by political radicals, it seems to have entirely failed.

This is nothing like what Freemasonry is.

Just a quick thought, as i said before i'm not really pro-magik but i find nothing wrong with studying the occult because it gives a knowledge on how some of your enemies think, the thing is if you do buy that there's a high ranking elite that pull the puppet strings most people claim they use occult knowledge and communicate through signs and symbols so to get a better understanding of what there up too studying the occult can give you that knowledge, i'm just not for applying the teachings of such learned occultic knowledge from such people as Alister Crowley Madame Blavatsky Anton Levay or Jack Parsons or any practitioner of those kind of arts, be wise with the knowledge but stay away from it's core roots, that's what i was trying to convey in my earlier posts...