If the Illuminati control Masonry I do not care

Originally posted by King Seesar
I find it disheartening that you don't care if the Illuminati controls Masonry...

Why? If they are in control they are obviously doing a horrendous job.

...i mean you say a good deed is a good deed...

Exactly.

well if a serial killer gos out and donates to charity should all be forgivin

I am not a serial killer so the analogy is not relevant. I only speak for myself and my actions.

...if the Illuminati control Masonry you should get out of there as fast as you can, if being a member of a group is that important to you join one that isn't controled by the Illuminati there's plenty of other groups out there such as the golden dawn and the church of satan(i'm kidding about those two groups), but seriously just go join a respected organization with no ties or rumored ties to nefarius groups....

Since the Illuminati is rumored to control everything which group do you recommend?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The point you make about the Illuminati that everyone thinks they control every organization made me laugh because it's so true, but there's groups out there that don't have the stigma attached to it that Masonry has and sure while it's true everyone thinks the Illuminati controls everything it's more with Masonry then it is with any other charitable organization.


Here's the thing tho if the Illuminati do control Masonry then you shouldn't be in bed with people who murder steal use mind control in horrible ways rape children do human sacrifice even if they are doing a bad job with there agenda giving them power in numbers is wrong...

Originally posted by King Seesar

I find it disheartening that you don't care if the Illuminati controls Masonry i mean you say a good deed is a good deed, well if a serial killer gos out and donates to charity should all be forgivin, if the Illuminati control Masonry you should get out of there as fast as you can, if being a member of a group is that important to you join one that isn't controled by the Illuminati there's plenty of other groups out there such as the golden dawn and the church of satan(i'm kidding about those two groups), but seriously just go join a respected organization with no ties or rumored ties to nefarius groups.....

The Golden Dawn was founded by Adepts of the Masonic Rosicrucian Society. It is an Illuminated Fraternity. And there are plenty of people who attached the same ridiculous conspiracy theories to the Golden Dawn as they have with Masonry and the Illuminati.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Aleister Crowley was a high ranking member of the golden dawn so how great could it be, besides i'm not too high on the occult in terms of a esoteric agenda and i'm anti magik because people messing around with principalities they truly don't understand is a very dangerous endeavor so we agree to disagree....

Originally posted by King Seesar
Here's the thing tho if the Illuminati do control Masonry then you shouldn't be in bed with people who murder steal use mind control in horrible ways rape children do human sacrifice even if they are doing a bad job with there agenda giving them power in numbers is wrong...

No. I obviously have not come into contact with any of these alleged 'higher-ups' and if I have they have not disusaded me from doing what I have been doing prior to any supposed contact. There hold therefore, upon the 'average' Mason, is rather tenuous if at all. Additionally, how do the positive actions of Masons keep anyone of the ilk that you describe 'in power'?

Originally posted by King Seesar

Aleister Crowley was a high ranking member of the golden dawn so how great could it be

It was Crowley who was the international Grand Master of the Ordo Templi Orientis, which claims to be the successor to the Illuminati.

Also, while Crowley was a member of the Golden Dawn, I wouldn't consider him a "high ranking" one.

reply to post by Masonic Light

As far as I can tell he went on Mathers's envoy to London.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

As far as I can tell he went on Mathers's envoy to London.

True. But even then, he was only a 5° = 6° Adeptus Minor, and was "outranked" by everybody on the Temple Board at London. Yeats, who was serving as Chief Adept, ordered Crowley removed from the premises, and the orders brought from Mathers were ignored.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

it's obviously only the ones at the very top. Sadly, I have no idea who they are, as no other person on this board or in real life seems to know. So I guess it suffices to say that we, as low level masons, don't have a need to know.

Yeah, isn't that strange? Don't you just find that fascinating that the ranks of a "secret society" supposedly know nothing about the upper echelon of said society.....yet people who have no affiliation with that society seem to know every last little dirty (alleged) detail???

It's amazing....

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Aleister Crowley was a high ranking member of the golden dawn so how great could it be, besides i'm not too high on the occult in terms of a esoteric agenda and i'm anti magik because people messing around with principalities they truly don't understand is a very dangerous endeavor so we agree to disagree....

edit on 4-2-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

Actually, Crowley was not a "high ranking member" of the GD. In fact, his entry into the GD in any capacity is what splintered the group forevermore. There are REASONS why Crowley's presence in the GD was highly unwelcome. Perhaps you should look into that.....

The Illuminati and the Freemasons, interesting but from all the things I've read here they both have 'dark sides'. How can we provide some kind of proof that their 'dark side' outweighs their 'good side'? We can only speculate about those higher ranks. Only few people know what exactly are those and I highly doubt that they will show up in internet forums exposing the "truth".

So before we judge both why don't we do some more research?

And history won't provide much information since they are only one side of the whole story, every story has it's flip side which has been long forgotten. Everything in this world has its opposites. We can't know for sure who are we fighting but one things for sure. WE are fighting a spiritual war and only those who are 'enlightened'/'awakened' would know how to fight.

reply to post by Lateralussicksicksick

What is the dark side of Freemasonry? In your opinion.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by King Seesar
Here's the thing tho if the Illuminati do control Masonry then you shouldn't be in bed with people who murder steal use mind control in horrible ways rape children do human sacrifice even if they are doing a bad job with there agenda giving them power in numbers is wrong...

No. I obviously have not come into contact with any of these alleged 'higher-ups' and if I have they have not disusaded me from doing what I have been doing prior to any supposed contact. There hold therefore, upon the 'average' Mason, is rather tenuous if at all. Additionally, how do the positive actions of Masons keep anyone of the ilk that you describe 'in power'?

If there are higher ups i'm sure alot of research gos into selecting the person too include in the plot, kind of like the CIA have you ever seen the movie the Good Shepherd they select people whos morals wont get in the way at the job at hand, and judging by your posts they wouldn't select you because you would be too big a risk...

Just my two cents anyway.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Aleister Crowley was a high ranking member of the golden dawn so how great could it be, besides i'm not too high on the occult in terms of a esoteric agenda and i'm anti magik because people messing around with principalities they truly don't understand is a very dangerous endeavor so we agree to disagree....

edit on 4-2-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

Actually, Crowley was not a "high ranking member" of the GD. In fact, his entry into the GD in any capacity is what splintered the group forevermore. There are REASONS why Crowley's presence in the GD was highly unwelcome. Perhaps you should look into that.....

I'v done plently of reserach into Crowley as a mater of fact when he was supposed to move up in the rankings of the Golden Dawn some of the higher ranking members wanted him to wait but he went to a friend who had the power to move his rank up and he did basically goning over his superiors heads causing alot of problems.

But like i said i'm againts the occult in terms of a esoteric agenda so i oppose the Golden Dawn along with the Church of Satan...

reply to post by King Seesar

So you're saying one would likely become immoral as they move up the hierarchy of Freemasonry?

reply to post by KSigMason


Power can go to your head to answer your question but i don't think it would work like that persay, more then likely you would have it in you to be corrupt from the start and just moving up the ranks would give you more of a say, but if there is a higher up conglomerate they would probably be studying you for this group for awhile and then maybe put you through some kind of small tests that would seem harmless to you but they would gather that data and add it to the over all assessment of your morals and then if they liked the way you handled those tests maybe they would do more extreme scenarios and then add it all up and see if they had the proverbial man for the job, i think logically it would be handled more like that.

reply to post by King Seesar

Wow, you've put way too much thought into it. Plus, most of our leadership is voted in for a specific term.

reply to post by KSigMason


While it's true that your leadership is only valid for a specific time frame that dosen't necessarily prevent this side group we call the higher ups from selecting those few to join the old boys network after careful research of a potential selection, also and i'v had this discussion with Josh Norton i'm not so sure it's based on traditionally Masonic rank, this group (if they exist) could easily make up there own rules for the simple fact there basically a secret society working within a secret society so by there rules once they select you they could assign a higher rank then what most Masons recognize as the highest rank, i mean it's there rules so they have it anyway they want...

But i'm on record as saying i think the majority of the corruption from Masonry stems from the European branchs were the rules are more relaxed and the european Masons have more say when it comes to political endeavors and some of these branchs aren't even recognized by there American counterparts....


I think the video that was posted in this fourm detailing the black nobles from Belgium and France and the Castle of the Dark Mother kind of what i was getting at when i say European branchs....

reply to post by King Seesar

Going off of Augustus's premise, if the Illuminati is controlling us they are doing a poor job. When I was Worshipful Master I basically did what I wanted (within regulation of the constitution and by-laws) - I made the decisions with some decisions needing approval of the Brothers.

I'm still waiting to find out who this "higher up" is composed of. It's quite a thing to say there is a shadow group, but another to prove it. You haven't done the latter. I'm still awaiting your opinion on the supposed hierarchy of Freemasonry.

All rules and regulations are established by the voting members. At the local level all members in good standing are voting members. At State and above the voting members are the top 3 elected officers of the subordinate body in that jurisdiction (ie Worshipful Master, Senior Warden, and Junior Warden are voting members for the Grand Lodge), as well as any Past presiding officer. No Mason is obliged to follow rules that were not Democratically set in place by the voting majority.