FAA warns of ongoing GPS issues in southeastern US due to Defense Department 'tests'

There are quite a few laser gyro hybrid systems that only need GPS input periodically. That goes for marine applications as well. Maybe there will be some discussion of how the various systems held up against the jamming? Really other than that possibility I have no clue.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Thanks, get. So it's not exactly a trivial thing.

FLIGHT ADVISORY: GPS Testing [spooky timing?]

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION FLIGHT ADVISORY GPS Testing CSFTL GPS 11-01 January 20-February 11, 2011 February 15-February 22, 2011 Brunswick, GA The Department of Defense will conduct GPS tests on January 20th through February 22nd, 2011. During testing, the GPS signal may be unreliable or unavailable. A. Location: Centered at 304906N/0802811W or the location know as 105.25 degrees and 52.1 NM from the SSI VOR. B. Dates and times: GPS testing is scheduled on January 20th through February 11th, 2011 from 0000-0245 UTC daily and February 15th through February 22nd, 2011 from 0000-0245 UTC daily. These tests may not be concurrent…

reply to post by getreadyalready


I should like to add, for the OP....I "attend" threads that are of interest...and especially when it's aviation-related, I have a certain amount of viewpoint and experience to contribute.

To (Congrats, GRAR...I now dub thee with that new moniker, and you may smite me as a result....) .

...JFK Jr, and Bermuda Triangle incidents. Inexperienced pilots dependent upon technology, drift into hazy conditions and lose normal reference points.

I love the "Triangle" stories, find some explainable, some puzzling. JFK Jr, though you are correct. It is more involved, another thread...


GPS wasn't a factor then, for him...and I doubt many "Triangle" cases...speaking of, may I FINALLY don the tin foil hat, and float that one out?? Considering the relative proximity....oh, well....it's a stretch....


Other than being over-water (and this includes boats....who, BTW, may always call for help on Channel 9, and just sit and wait). As GRAR pointed out, airplanes don't just "hover", they need fuel to stay aloft, and someplace solid and safe, if almost out of fuel.


About the GPS outage, and the aviation community....GRAR brought up good points, and while some may be "spoiled" and rely too heavily on GPS....every pilot still has his basics (I hope!) learned from the beginning. AND, the VORs will not be affected. In the most dire circumstances, a pilot need only radio for help (much as the boater can)...although, for some reason, both pilots and boaters are loathe to do so.

For a pilot, a "call for help" just gets ATC involved....and, as most have a transponder, then they can be "nursemaided" if lost...guided and helped. Embarrassing....guess that's likely the sticking point, both aviation and nautical??


Unrelated, but spot on!!!

Most crashes come from "cascading events" and most of them are related to cockpit task management, or pilot overload. Taking away a critical piece of a pilot's technology is a big issue.

"Breaking the Chain" was coined decades ago, based on accident scenario investigations. That sort of study has led to a MAJOR increase in safety records, despite such huge increase in numbers of flights, overall.

It's hard to write it into words, but many HAVE been written about it. Airlines ahve benfitted the most, despite intense resistance from the "old timers" of the day...back when I was a "young timer". They (ego-driven) derided it as "charm school", because it threatened the age-old paradigm of, "The Captain is Always Correct."

These are good concepts that can be modified, and applied, to many aspects and fields of life...."Crew Resources Management" is the term that the ariline industry coined, and uses. I see it becoming very popular, in many fields....even in medicine, last decade....but, I have drifted.....damn, I was using the GPS, and didn't cross-check the heading!! Correcting back on course, now.......and, frequency change approved.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I get what you are saying about the over reliance of GPS nowadays...
But isn't this area also quite often synonymous with erratic compass readings also??
Wouldn't that make it harder.?

could be preparing to test for whats in this link,maybe...www.youtube.com...

For what its worth - there are a couple of Naval Bases very close to there. Together the epicenter of this and the naval bases form a bit of a triangle.

Take a look at this ....

Google Map - Kings Bay Base, Mayport Base, GPS Epicenter

A is the center of the GPS testing from the bulletin,
B is Kings Bay Navy Sub Base
C is Mayport Navy Base at Jacksonville.

Certainly close enough for either or both be involved in having something out there in the water.

reply to post by Frogs


Figured it out ,the defence facilities will be jammed and the haarp facility deployed for carrier signals ,they are definetly preparing for a grid and communications breakdown,by temporarily blocking these three instalations their communications will be compromised so the redundant system re deployed for test purposes .Simulating A SOLAR BURST WHICH WILL TAKE DOWN THEIR COMMUNICATION.!

reply to post by backinblack

But isn't this area also quite often synonymous with erratic compass readings also?

Good question....it is part of the "lore" of the *Bermuda Triangle*.

As I said, I do find some of those cases interesting....but am no means currently up on the latest about them. Just, when watching programs, occasionally, that touch on the subject, it gets my interest....

HOWEVER.....ever since the gyro was invented, and adapted to airplane instrumentation...the "erratic" compass should be less of an issue.

BUT....and this is important....when you have no other navigation system, and I'm talking about the sorts of things on airliners, since at least the early 1970s (INS/IRS) prior to those, and not available on smaller airplanes, you did rely, up to a point, on the Mag compass. Using it as your reference to set your gyroscopic compass instrument...which is not subject to the sorts of fluctuations that a Mag compass is....acceleration flaws, lags/leads when turning, etc.

**BUT, per your point....IF you let the "erratic" compass bother you to the point you obsess, and KEEP re-setting the gyro....? (answer a few paragraphs down....).

In the OLD days, you learned to interpret the compass....IF it was stable, well...that was easy....IF it was erratic, then you used your noggin to average the readings....based on your own judgement.

Mechanical gyros, as used in heading indicators, are prone to several accumulating errors...friction in the bearings, where they rotate, and precession errors, which is implicit in gyros. Short answer, every student knows to regularly compare the gyro heading, to the "wet" compass (when in unaccelerated, level flight) and adjust the gyro, as needed, to compensate for any cumulative errors.

Better technology, over the years....fewer "drifts"...modern jets use more sophisticated means to also correct themselves, transparent (mostly, we can check its progress) to the pilots.

But, smaller airplanes lacking that great tech? Rely a lot on Human skill and judgement. Flawed as it may be....(**)choosing to re-set your gyro heading indicator, based on a (BAD) mag heading.....THEN you realize, "Oh crap! What did I just do?"...and pretty soon, you are well in the muck....depending on circumstances, of course.

Garbage In/Garbage Out (GIGO) is an OLD computing term, from the early days....it applies here. It is always about judgement. And that implies skill, too.


Summary: When at all possible, it helps to have a back-up, in case your most fancy-schmancy high-tech goes "south"---and, in the worst case, that may be the gray matter in your skull.....


(Hope that wasn't too far off course....)

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by WiseThinker
This could be very related
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 20-1-2011 by WiseThinker because: (no reason given)

Could be related. I'm still trying to get over the fact that they mentioned Tampa airport closing down their runway to the public. At least this 'top secret payload' you speak of, gave us idiots an excuse for broadcasting it. They just didn't want people to think they were having an earthquake when this 3-story rocket took off.

I couldn't get over them having to repaint the numbers on the runways at the airport in Tampa because of the 10 degree shift in magnetic North. Maybe they have to do that all the time and only just mentioned it? They didn't mention having to do so at airports in other cities. What gives? Strange headlines these days.

reply to post by new_here


Certain military airports will have been ,and the tampa is a little carrot on the end of the stick to make people think,and probably because several civilian airports would need to be realigned in preparation for something ongoing,theres to much happening,and we will all be the last to know.Even sending jamming satelites up?Their ramping up their defence strategies and testing like mad by the looks of it..

Originally posted by Human_Alien
I realize satellites are the brain to the GPS's but what if..............this is affecting vehicles?
If a car is heading north on 1-95 and their GPS say's continue north only.........they wind up west (because their compasses are off)....don't tell me that's not a concern?

It does not sound to me like they are ruling it out...

Of course, while this particular advisory is directed at pilots, it will presumably also affect all other GPS devices, as the FAA doesn't mention any GPS issues specific to aviation.

Link

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by thethingreally
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Jamming by interrupting the satellite signal so that your GPS would not work.

Yeah, I got that but.........why? I mean, how would they (the government) validate using that technology?

To me it's like puncturing someones tires as they're driving risking a serious accident.
It's a very provocative 'defense' wouldn't you say?

Give me an example of 'who' they would use this on and what they'd hope they'd accomplish.
Can you set up a scenario for me please?

(this is sickening)

Your post made me think... a trial run to simulate the effects of losing GPS due to effects of a chaotic solar storm???
Because, kindly tell me why they would perform said test off the coast of Atlanta International Airport, where a gazillion planes could run amok? They could have tried this out in the middle of the Sahara Desert, forheavensake!
(Paranoid thought: Or solar flares are messing with GPS already, and this is disinfo to throw the world off track!)

Found this information to be quite interesting. Makes what happend yesterday with China's president and Obama make much more sense.

So, while President Bush spent the Sunday of 11/20/05 in China, talking about Iraq and, if we are to believe Condi Rice, "pressing on human rights," time was not wasted by those Chinese who were looking forward to the Chinese superweapon that Drexler described in 1986, the year when Program 863 was founded in China to develop post-nuclear superweapons in seven fields. Today 50 percent of Chinese students study nanotechnology, while the figure for the United States is 5, the population of China exceeding that of the United States more than four times. It seems that instead of any progress in human rights in China, about which the Governor of Tokyo said, "I believe such predictions are totally wrong, Condi Rice will discover the Chinese ultimatum to the West and its allies, confronting them with (nano) annihilation, and they will be lucky if they surrender unconditionally.

Lev Navrozov's ([email protected]]

reply to post by weedwhacker

In the OLD days, you learned to interpret the compass....IF it was stable, well...that was easy....IF it was erratic, then you used your noggin to average the readings....based on your own judgement.

Mechanical gyros, as used in heading indicators, are prone to several accumulating errors...friction in the bearings, where they rotate, and precession errors, which is implicit in gyros. Short answer, every student knows to regularly compare the gyro heading, to the "wet" compass (when in unaccelerated, level flight) and adjust the gyro, as needed, to compensate for any cumulative errors.

As weedwhacker says, the problem is usually not the equipment, but the pilot ignoring or not believing the equipment. As in the JFK Jr. case, when an inexperienced pilot is in hazy conditions or over water, they can sometimes get a nagging feeling that the equipment is just "off" and they tend to trust their feeling instead of their instruments. Clouds and water can give false horizons that may not be level. A pilot will fiddle with his instruments or ignore them completely and begin a slow, descending turn that eventually crashes them. Their equilibrium is off because of the false horizon, and they never realize what is happening until it is too late to fix. It is sometimes called a "death spiral."

So, worst case scenario here, and hopefully it won't happen, but worst case scenario, some pilot is out at dawn or dusk when conditions are the worst, he is heavily reliant upon the GPS and hasn't made efforts to learn to be proficient without it, he gets in the air, and then the GPS stops working, the adrenalin ramps up, and he isn't thinking as clearly as he should, he suddenly has to reach in his memory bank for instrument training, but in the hazy low light conditions his mind has "levelled" on a false horizon, and he just can't trust his mechanical instruments over his own gut feeling, because his GPS already let him down. He ends up far from shore at low altitude and even if his GPS comes back on, he may not have the fuel to make it back to safety. Worse yet, he is a doctor or a lawyer, and his pride is high, and he didn't want to ask for help, or he just didn't realize he was in trouble, so he never radioed, and he never changed his transponder, so he is just missing, and they have no idea where to search.

They did use "cesium fountain" clock standards at least in the old days. There were also multiple precisions for civilian and military use. We have plenty of time to monitor the progress as this just started today and is scheduled to last through February.

reply to post by new_here


Hello, new_here, and welcome! As to your question:

I couldn't get over them having to repaint the numbers on the runways at the airport in Tampa because of the 10 degree shift in magnetic North...

I am afraid you are laboring under a misconception, and a general one, that tends to persist in this thread....

The magnetic variation, nor the magnetic pole orientation, as measured on angle from the location at the TAMPA Airport, did NOT alter by "10 degrees"....

It was a mere matter of ONES...or really, TENTHS of degrees....over the course of, well....about 10 or more years.

You may wish to review the thread, and read up on the facts, to get a better sense of the truth (absent the rhetoric...).

OK??

Originally posted by gringoboy
reply to post by new_here

 

Certain military airports will have been ,and the tampa is a little carrot on the end of the stick to make people think,and probably because several civilian airports would need to be realigned in preparation for something ongoing,theres to much happening,and we will all be the last to know.Even sending jamming satelites up?Their ramping up their defence strategies and testing like mad by the looks of it..

Defense against another country? Maybe I misunderstood, because if so they should have repainted the numbers at the enemy's airport.

Originally posted by new_here


Your post made me think... a trial run to simulate the effects of losing GPS due to effects of a chaotic solar storm???
Because, kindly tell me why they would perform said test off the coast of Atlanta International Airport, where a gazillion planes could run amok? They could have tried this out in the middle of the Sahara Desert, forheavensake!
(Paranoid thought: Or solar flares are messing with GPS already, and this is disinfo to throw the world off track!)

See, I'm thinking like you. Only I backed off this because it was getting too techno for me and I can't go up against science if I don't understand it. So...............
Your point is a good one and belongs in the same category of: 'why do they drop flares over major cities' (Phoenix Lights 1997) ?

Like someone said earlier, the synchronicity or timing of ALL these incidents in the past 19 days is far too coincidental not to link together.
There's a theme here. And what exactly the common denominator is is still being worked out. I lean towards the 'shift' .

It's been said that the PTB are actually trying to postpone the 'shift' by tweaking things around a bit by using HAARP and perhaps even CERN.
We know the chemtrails (with their aluminum particles they're known to contain) MUST be reacting or acting with the magnetic and plasma fields around Earth.

I am not fear-mongering but I will say (based on my instincts which are rarely wrong) and that is...we ain't seen nothing yet!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by new_here

 

Hello, new_here, and welcome! As to your question:

I couldn't get over them having to repaint the numbers on the runways at the airport in Tampa because of the 10 degree shift in magnetic North...

I am afraid you are laboring under a misconception, and a general one, that tends to persist in this thread....

The magnetic variation, nor the magnetic pole orientation, as measured on angle from the location at the TAMPA Airport, did NOT alter by "10 degrees"....

It was a mere matter of ONES...or really, TENTHS of degrees....over the course of, well....about 10 or more years.

You may wish to review the thread, and read up on the facts, to get a better sense of the truth (absent the rhetoric...).

OK??

Why thank you for the hearty welcome! So this article I read is incorrect? (Or I need remedial reading comprehension LOL?!)

Runways are designated according to points on a compass, with 360 points spaced around a circle and split into 10-degree segments. When TIA's primary runway was built in the 1960s, it pointed almost exactly due north. One end was labeled 36, or 360 degrees. The other end was labeled 18, or 180 degrees. Because the magnetic pole has moved, the runway now points closer to 10 degrees and 190 degrees.

Link
Thanking you in advance!