Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by surfnow2


I think you have the videos confused.. video one shows a cop murder an innocent man (practically in the back, technically in the side as the man turned around though it takes place off camera you can read about it).
How did you come up with the idea that he was outnumbered? It was one homeless indian man carving a piece of wood. He shot him down in cold blood.

The second video shows a cop shoot a handcuffed man laying on the ground in the back killing him. They clearly had the situation under control, he just murdered the man. I think he was charged in that case, there were riots in the street over that one.

The first video is absolutely murder.
The second one is absolutely murder.
The third shows a cop using excessive force, he could have undoubtedly called for back up or restrained and cuffed the woman.

And of course what about the tazing of old bed ridden ladies, and ten year old kids?
Both stories are reported and require only a quick search.

Are you a cop? If you are and you think those videos show appropriate force then you should have your badge and gun taken. The first two videos I believe the cops were actually charged with murder, so that shows either your observation and assessment skills or your reasoning are off. Either way, it's scary to think you agree with the videos and I assume from that that you would have no problem acting the same way.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Azp420

 

I have admitted to bad cops, evidently it is the freemen that are the angels. I don't only talk about it, I do something about it. What are you doing besides spouting off?
Seeashrink

There are bad apples amongst any group of people. The police are no better than any other group (which is worse because they are given authority and weapons) so your argument that there has been trouble caused by some freemen in the past, therefore freemen are bad, is invalid.

You're right, I'm not going out into the streets and doing anything about it. I only believe in the use of violence to defend myself or other innocents. Unlike you, I do not believe in violently enforcing a certain set of morals and way of life on others.

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

No fear, just a statement of fact if you mess with or endanger a cops family. I would think this would be common sense.
Seeashrink

Twice in the last year I've been driving on a rural highway (2 lanes) and come across a random check stop. Where they wanted to see License, Registration and proof of insurance. Once with the whole family in the vehicle and once by myself.

The first time was by myself and the young officer told me that they were looking for people driving without insurance. The second time they where looking for people poaching. The second time was much better he was way more friendly and polite than the first one was. But they are people too and some have bad days.

reply to post by Azp420


Your argument that there are some bad policemen and therefore all cops are bad is invalid.
Now wasn't that simple.
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


Seeashrink what do you think about the force used in those videos? The first two the men were murdered in cold blood. You think that is ok? Surf thinks so. You agree with him? If so you both are lunatics.

reply to post by seeashrink


I feel the same way when cops mess with my family. i don't think anyone wants anyone messing with their families , no matter who they are or represent..just say no

reply to post by seeashrink

Your argument that there are some bad policemen and therefore all cops are bad is invalid.
Now wasn't that simple.
Seeashrink

I realise law enforcement is not an intellectual endeavor but I never once made the argument that "all cops are bad because some cops are bad."

Perhaps you would like to debate some of the points I actually did make?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by seeashrink

 

Seeashrink what do you think about the force used in those videos? The first two the men were murdered in cold blood. You think that is ok? Surf thinks so. You agree with him? If so you both are lunatics.

I may have a little more knowledge of these videos than surf does.

The first video was murder. The police officer was a rookie and had just returned from Afghanistan (sp?) and never should have been on the street. I hope he was/is prosecuted. He went from a battle hardened soldier who had done this very same thing in a war zone and did not make the transition to civilian life and a paramilitary job. The man that he killed was an old indian wino that routinely carved wood and sold his carvings to make a little drinking money. If memory serves me right, I think he was deaf.

The second video is very sad for the victim and the cop. The officer thought he had his tazer in his hand and he wore his tazer on his gun side. Instead he pulled his gun. The guy was resisting and a tazer would have been appropriate. This is what happened, look it up. This in not meant to be an excuse but just the facts.The cops were not only worried about the people they had arrested but the crowd behind them. Very sad situation.

The third video, while I understand surfs point, I can't see myself tazing a 72 year old woman. The cop out wieghed her by 150 lbs at least. He was heavy handed. He needs to be retrained or dismissed from the force all together. If there were some extenuating circumstances that I am not aware of I could be wrong. But I think he was out of line at face value.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

 

Educate yourself. Many of the laws such as seatbelt and helmets come from the insurance lobbyist trying to keep their company from having to pay out claims. Right now as we speak, the insurance industry is trying to get a law passed that all bumpers will be at an equal height as to match all other bumpers. What do think that is going to cost the auto makers? What do you think that is going to cost you? Maybe you should try and find another tree to bark up. Or maybe you should just move to another country that better suits your needs. And uh, don't forget your donkey.
Seeashrink

No we agree here, This is what I am talking about, its all for business. Not protection or rights. Its all about making money right now. Your example is EXACTLY my point. The lobbyists have created all sorts of "laws" (invisible taxes) to fit their needs, they have NOTHING to do with safety really just making or saving money.

I think in the end we are closer to the same view then you realize.
My ex-roomie and friend is an officer and believe it or not agrees with me more so then he can admit at work.

My donkey says hi BTW said you never call anymore and he misses you.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

 

No fear, just a statement of fact if you mess with or endanger a cops family. I would think this would be common sense.
Seeashrink

IF and or WHEN martial law or the police state arrives we have a right as free HUMAN BEING to defend ourselves with whatever means. Hence 2nd amendment.
We as constitution following people protect it from all enemies.

The quotes I added in my first post sum it up.

I am not as concerned with today as I am with what is on the books, we are on a thin razor blade and ready to fall off the first bomb or illness that comes through. Martial law and police states are real threats to WE THE PEOPLE as the current GOV is not of or for the people but OF and FOR corporations that pay lobbyists to make laws and obfuscate facts the American people and consumer should be made aware of.

Anyway I am done. I said my part and really have nothing more to add other than this,

We are equal and deserve to be treated as such.
When WE are hunted, harassed, imprisoned and abused by officials we have no choice but to give back what they have brought in a just system.

Originally posted by seeashrink
As I said before, I too believe that government is too big. But, your's and the other freemen's alternatives are utter nonsense and will never happen without a total breakdown of our current society.

If that happens, you will have little micro societies popping up wherever they feel safe and the neccessary resouces can be found. Just for giggles, lets say that one of these is a group of freemen. Before long there will be disputes of land, water, theft, rape, fights, etc...

Let me just ask you, what century do you think this is? Who is the first person you will go out and murder when we have a "total breakdown of our current society"? Who will be the first woman you'll rape? Why must this breakdown of society occur for cops to put their guns down and leave people the hell alone? You seem to be of the opinion we have police to thank for roads, running water, computers, electricity, everything I guess. The only thing you can imagine other than police running the show by force is a relapse to the stone age? Nothing could be further from the truth. If we get these psychotics off our streets, hell, put them all in prison with the people they've been locking up and let god sort them out. I won't miss a single one of them.

Originally posted by Azp420
reply to post by seeashrink

 

Now, does any of this sound familiar, of coures it does and that is exactly what will happen. I'd say in less than 10 years you will be right back to where we are today.

Except without nearly 50% of the average mans income being stolen from him with the threat of violence by government thugs. Where honest citizens are not held in cages for "crimes" that have no victim.

All of you are just spouting off with words and case law and the first time someone breaks in your house or your car, you will call me, the police officer, because that is your only choice and chance of anything being righted.

If that's all someone can afford they yes, they probably will call you (not that it will be much help in finding their property of preventing such a thing from happening again). If they were not forced with the threat of violence to pay for your services they would probably hire a private investigator with the money instead. Don't think that you're special just because most people are forced to pay for you and not make their own choice.

Many of you have gotten in trouble with law and you are angry because you were doing something wrong and got caught, not much different from a child throwing a tantrum.

In my opinion this is pretty much the problem with police culture. There is absolutely no room for free thinking. The law is assumed to be the be all and end all of what is right and wrong. (Those politicians and lawmakers are just such an honest and moral lot aren't they?) I think the quote in my sig would apply to most LEOs.

If these are the points that you are talking about debating, then fine. I just don't know how to break your point down into the "quote post" blocks. Maybe you could tell me how to that, anyway I had to quote the whole post.

Your first point you seem to be generalizing a great deal. Are you talking about the government in general or just cops. You seem to think that in this new world there would be no corruption amongst those who moved into power. This is a pipe dream and you know it.

Your second point: People are not required to report crimes. They can always bypass the law and hire a PI. But then what? The PI cannot return their property, nor can they charge the individual once found. Again, here you assume ALL cops are dirty

Your third point: Of course threre is room for free thinking. Just today I stopped a guy who I knew his license were revoked. I could have taken him to jail and he would had to have posted bond to get out. Instead, I gave him a citation and told him that when he came to court with a valid license that I would take a dismisal on the case. Now, granted, if he had murdered someone, I would have had no options. But this kind of thing happens all the time with pollice officers. Again, the new society would end up right back to where we are today, Guarantee it.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

Tell your Ass that I have a lot of other asses to deal with and I will get to him when I can. And...tell him I said hi and I miss him too.
Seeashink

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

WHEN not IF martial law happens, its a new ball game and my badge comes off. I am an Oath Keeper, I will not be responsible for taking guns away from citizens and whatever else they require. It is then that I will be done.
Seeashink

i would like to state an opinion of mine.
how can one do good, if their intentions are based upon law, and law alone. the sad truth is that cops do not have control of their actions. to be an officer, is to be employed. and when employed, you have to follow the rules, regardless of your own opinion. also, i am almost positive that some policemen have come to this conclusion, and quit their jobs because of it. also, your linking freemen to bombing, is not an opinion based upon self experience with freemen, it is merely what you have seen on tv, or heard of from others. and trust me, experienced is everything. and the freemen who have posted about their self experience, are judging all cops as a collective, simply because they have seen, or witnessed first hand the various injustices which have been done by many in uniform. it's just like being in the military, your actions while in uniform reflect all who wear it. my brother is in the military, and i recently had an argument with him about the "iraq war logs", and he helped me realize the reason they do not want people to have such information, because their actions while in uniform, reflect all whom serve. though, i myself still feel that this information when kept secret from the people is deceitful and unjust. bottom line is that while in your uniform, you do indeed reflect all who wear it. and i have never myself seen a freeman in a freemen uniform, have you, i think not. because freemen are just that. free, and justifiably self governed, so as to prevent oppression brought upon them by their government, who's sole purpose is to serve and protect the people, not dictate and maintain them under their own opinions. what right do you have, or any other, to dictate a peaceful fellow human being. you no longer have a sense of authority, and in my opinion, you fear the lack of any power which you unlawfully claim. you are a slave, to your government second, and the people first and for most.

i would like to state an opinion of mine.
how can one do good, if their intentions are based upon law, and law alone. the sad truth is that cops do not have control of their actions. to be an officer, is to be employed. and when employed, you have to follow the rules, regardless of your own opinion. also, i am almost positive that some policemen have come to this conclusion, and quit their jobs because of it. also, your linking freemen to bombing, is not an opinion based upon self experience with freemen, it is merely what you have seen on tv, or heard of from others. and trust me, experienced is everything. and the freemen who have posted about their self experience, are judging all cops as a collective, simply because they have seen, or witnessed first hand the various injustices which have been done by many in uniform. it's just like being in the military, your actions while in uniform reflect all who wear it. my brother is in the military, and i recently had an argument with him about the "iraq war logs", and he helped me realize the reason they do not want people to have such information, because their actions while in uniform, reflect all whom serve. though, i myself still feel that this information when kept secret from the people is deceitful and unjust. bottom line is that while in your uniform, you do indeed reflect all who wear it. and i have never myself seen a freeman in a freemen uniform, have you, i think not. because freemen are just that. free, and justifiably self governed, so as to prevent oppression brought upon them by their government, who's sole purpose is to serve and protect the people, not dictate and maintain them under their own opinions. what right do you have, or any other, to dictate a peaceful fellow human being. you no longer have a sense of authority, and in my opinion, you fear the lack of any power which you unlawfully claim. you are a slave, to your government second, and the people first and for most.

reply to post by seeashrink

I just don't know how to break your point down into the "quote post" blocks. Maybe you could tell me how to that

Copy and paste the relevant paragraph or sentence(s) into the reply field. Immediately before the paragraph put "[quote]" and immediately after put "[/quote]". For you to see it I had to change the brackets used however, so instead of these "[" "]" use these "[" "]". Hope that makes sense.

Your first point you seem to be generalizing a great deal. Are you talking about the government in general or just cops. You seem to think that in this new world there would be no corruption amongst those who moved into power. This is a pipe dream and you know it.

Cops are the arms and hands which carry out the will of the type of government currently in place. I'm against any entity (be it government or mafia etc) which uses violence and the threat of violence to coerce protection money (what the government calls taxation) from the general public. Instead of being forced to pay for police departments I would rather have a free market where citizens can choose to hire private investigators and security. There would be a lot less corruption because any employee acting in a corrupt manor would cause a lot of people to change to a competing firm. This is not possible under the current system. The free market would ensure firms are forced to act honorably and carry out the will of the people if they wish to stay in business.

I also wouldn't want anyone to move into power because I agree that power = corruption. I do not wish to be governed and am not sure why most people do.

Your second point: People are not required to report crimes. They can always bypass the law and hire a PI. But then what? The PI cannot return their property, nor can they charge the individual once found. Again, here you assume ALL cops are dirty

People can report crimes to a PI of their choosing. Statistically, private investigators have a much higher rate of solving crimes than police detectives because they are motivated by a monetary reward. The private security firm would then return the stolen property which has been tracked down by the PI. I don't assume all cops are dirty, I just prefer the free market and not being threatened with violence to pay for protection.

our third point: Of course threre is room for free thinking. Just today I stopped a guy who I knew his license were revoked. I could have taken him to jail and he would had to have posted bond to get out. Instead, I gave him a citation and told him that when he came to court with a valid license that I would take a dismisal on the case. Now, granted, if he had murdered someone, I would have had no options. But this kind of thing happens all the time with pollice officers. Again, the new society would end up right back to where we are today, Guarantee it.

I'm sure if he had a couple of ounces of cannabis the story would have ended differently. The same goes for any number of victimless crimes.

reply to post by PlautusSatire


Oh yes, because places without government agents attempting to preserve order are such amazing places to live. Somalia comes to mind. I hear the weather is fantastic this time of year. Just be mindful of the bullets whizzing by everywhere.
This whole thread has devolved into philosophical debating about the need for authority and rule of law etc. Sure, cops make mistakes sometimes. When they do, people like us come along and hold them to the fire. However abolishing a trained police force is ridiculous. The first duty of police is to uphold the rule of law. I fear a pure democracy just as much as I would fear a totalitarian autocracy. Pure democracy is rule by mob, regardless of its scale. Small self autonomous city states as part of a freeman's movement would be just as likely to trample human rights as any monarch. It would just depend how popular you are at the polis.
comm

Originally posted by Loki Lyesmyth
reply to post by seeashrink

 

REMEMBER: FOLLOW A COP HOME DAY! Take a day and catch the cops /TSA workers on a shift change, follow them home and let them know we know where they live. When they stop feeling invisible and invencible they will cut this # out.

This is the absolute WORST idea I have have heard on this thread...as an LEO that has been stalked by gang members before I can say that I take my families safety VERY seriously. I WILL NOT have another drive by at my house by some thug whose cousin I arrested. I have a new house now that is not in my name nor do I have a home phone line or any bills in my name, I always do a few loops to check for tails on the way home. Most officers know how to recognize a tail and it will not end well for you.

Secure