Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by xXxtremelySecure

 

We had a thing here a few years back where a guy followed a female police officer home after they found out she had arrested their friend. His plan was apparently to assassinate her for disrespecting the gang. The end result of that was there was a dead guy in her driveway.
Comm

I now have 8 Day/night cameras 2 thermals and a relatively advanced system I have pieced together I also have a rediculous amount of loaded firearms scattered through the house I have given my fiance enough training to use them properly I added a hydraulic spike set to my drive 4" tall 1" spikes will keep someone from pulling back out if need be. I have put much thought into my security since gangs are getting more violent and are more likely to stage guerrilla type attacks. Lately the trend is the hispanic gangs breaking into house with 10+ members.

Secure

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


Sounds like South Africa or something...

Its not that bad here....yet. Hopefully it won't get that bad.

reply to post by commdogg


i do regret being rude in my past and future posts, and your right, also, i encourage you to prove us wrong. with direction, not hearsay. in many past posts people have given proof of their claim. just because you went to school for law, doesn't mean you have a full understanding of it. and yes, i will be the first to admit, neither do i. but your understanding of the law did not come from your own directive. you were told what to study. not that i know that for a fact, but from what you'v been saying, i'd say it's a pretty darn good guess. and yes, there is a way it should be, and a way it is. you should try and research the facts which have been posted throughout this thread, rather than ignorantly stick to what you know. if you gave me some direction, i would gladly look it up. i'd rather KNOW that im wrong, rather than just be told im wrong. you have not given and legal direction on the arguments which you are defending, just, "well thats just not the way it is", sounds to me like your just worried you'll be in loss of a profession, or atleast thats what i gather from your claims. i have put in alot of work in my studys, and i never speak out of ignorance. can you honestly say the same?? have you researched any of what has been placed before you?? if so, can you present, on a point by point, that the freeman's understanding of the law is wrong?? and by point by point, i mean lawful proof of your claims. definitions, case laws, anything. if so i'd be glad to review them. only before you do, i ask you to review the opposing case laws in the previous posts. in my opinion, you completely ignored any of the posts that may prove you wrong. did you research any of those case laws by chance, and if so, why have you yet to address them??

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by xXxtremelySecure

 

Sounds like South Africa or something...

Its not that bad here....yet. Hopefully it won't get that bad.

Not South Africa yet, just Southern Virginia lol. Officer stalking is becoming a common trend hence why 8 officers and their family got together and bought a run down apartment building(fannie mae), fixed it up and made it secure. I hate that it is becoming like that but the hispanic gang members are back within 3 weeks of being deported and the jails in VA wont hold them more than 72 hours if ICE isnt going to pick them up.

Secure

reply to post by LegalTender


Listen, I'm posting answers to your questions based on what I know. From legal training, experience, and common knowledge. If you want a legal opinion from the USSC, a list of statutes and codes, or a formal case summary from a law library, go look it up. I would suggest Lexis Nexis Academic Universe.

As far as me authoring a brief for your amusement; I charge by the hour.

And sadly, yes, I do value my training at face value more than I value your assumptions and misconstructions of law. I wasn't ever trying to be insulting towards you, but it became fairly clear to me you lack the understanding of some very fundamental tenants of law. You are not alone in this world believe me. However, a guy with no legal training, preconceived notions, and an ideological position contradictory to societal life in a constitutional republic holds little sway with people with actual legal training.

I would suggest using this opportunity to learn from these officers instead of barfing up nonsensical arguments.
Comm

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


That sounds like Texas lol. ICE policy has always confused me. "We won't prosecute you or charge you criminally if you leave voluntarily right now."
Adios, see ya in a week.

Originally posted by xXxtremelySecure

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by xXxtremelySecure

 

We had a thing here a few years back where a guy followed a female police officer home after they found out she had arrested their friend. His plan was apparently to assassinate her for disrespecting the gang. The end result of that was there was a dead guy in her driveway.
Comm

I now have 8 Day/night cameras 2 thermals and a relatively advanced system I have pieced together I also have a rediculous amount of loaded firearms scattered through the house I have given my fiance enough training to use them properly I added a hydraulic spike set to my drive 4" tall 1" spikes will keep someone from pulling back out if need be. I have put much thought into my security since gangs are getting more violent and are more likely to stage guerrilla type attacks. Lately the trend is the hispanic gangs breaking into house with 10+ members.

Secure

if your concerned with gang crimes, then why not ignore the harmless crimes. if you did that, then you and all other police, would have much more available resources to deal with the true criminals.
and i ask you and all other officers in this thread. if one does something that "may" cause harm, and is put into jail, or at the feet of the courts, and through conviction they are indeed caused harm. who has done the wrong doing?? a peaceful man is caused harm by his "protectors", PEACEFUL MAN, and you say this is just. i encourage you and all officers of the law to seek out those who harm the innocent. in my eyes, you are all cowards. the only replies you gave to my posts, were in an attempt to downplay, and twist. and you don't seem to address any of my true points...PLEASE, i beg you, review my previous posts, and address me on the true nature of my many points, i have on yours, does no one see the irony in that. you always fall back on the same thing, "im right and your wrong", petty playground BULL#. get over yourselves and pick up a fukin book, research as i have, before you make your claims. research the UDHR, or a common law lien, or real defense. prove my understandings wrong. don't just say im wrong. it makes you look the way we have all said you are, ignorant.

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by LegalTender

 

Look I can only speak for myself here, but I've been posting and trying to answer questions from the readers here from the depth of my training and experience in matters of law. I am fairly well educated, I have worked in law and law enforcement for the majority of my adult life. Its getting old to see questions posed, or statements made by the readership that have absolutely no bearing of fact. There's the way it should be and then sometimes there is the way it is. The OP and several others have been trying to explain things, in my opinion, very honestly and thoroughly, yet the thought process of the thread keeps getting derailed for nonsensical reasons.

Some of your particular posts I have not been able to answer because I truly do not understand what you are talking about. I don't think that's my fault, as I just can't figure out how your going from A-Z without the benefit of you illuminating your process.

Attacking the cops is never a good idea, in real life or on a thread, especially when all they are trying to do is COMMUNICATE with fellow human beings about how to make interactions with them a little less painful and unpleasant.
There I'm Done.
Comm

Well done at trying to derail a persons very logical and right-felt thoughts and feelings. Great way to try and trick minds into accepting that someone is trying to reach out when in fact its programing. Your entire statement was one way programming. Its laughable.

How about this????
The fracking cops listen to us reaching out to them about interacting with US, This means you listen when the government WON'T. THIS MEANS YOU LISTEN TO THE CITIZENS CRY FOR HELP

Imagine if all the police who had their brother and sister officers perish in 9-11 made the statement that they would not work until the investigation was reopened.

OR

Till troops come home

OR

The banks brought to justice

OR

The FED opens up to investigation and becomes liable...

I MEAN IMAGINE THE GOOD YOU CAN DO!

But no, your collecting tolls on the side of the road from people who are late to work, trying to not get fired because the kids were late to the bus and you had to drop them off and now they are dealing with you.. Mr Do-Right earning your salary.

FYI the jiggs up YOU DO HAVE QUOTAS they are not called "quota" but you have them.

DO GOOD SERVE THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD LOVE TO HELP KEEP PEACE AND LOVE


I for one thought LEGALTENDER has it dead on and cheers to the guy for the true spirit of love, communion and brotherhood among men. Do good, do no harm and this above all LOVE.

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by LegalTender

 

Listen, I'm posting answers to your questions based on what I know. From legal training, experience, and common knowledge. If you want a legal opinion from the USSC, a list of statutes and codes, or a formal case summary from a law library, go look it up. I would suggest Lexis Nexis Academic Universe.

As far as me authoring a brief for your amusement; I charge by the hour.

And sadly, yes, I do value my training at face value more than I value your assumptions and misconstructions of law. I wasn't ever trying to be insulting towards you, but it became fairly clear to me you lack the understanding of some very fundamental tenants of law. You are not alone in this world believe me. However, a guy with no legal training, preconceived notions, and an ideological position contradictory to societal life in a constitutional republic holds little sway with people with actual legal training.

I would suggest using this opportunity to learn from these officers instead of barfing up nonsensical arguments.
Comm

iv already done my research, but thx for the tips, i'll check em out. though all im saying, is that if you are trying to prove me wrong, your doing a terrible job of it. sry, let me spell it out for you, "ME READ, ME STUDY, ME HAVE FACTS. YOU NOT READ, YOU NOT STUDY, YOU NO HAVE FACTS." FYI, im only rude when its well deserved. and the fact still remains, you have given no substance to prove your claim. all you have presented, (and this go's for all the officers on this thread) is hearsay.

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth


Oh right. Cops refusing to work in protest for some kind of social injustice?? Laughable. Even if they legally could, which they cant, they would still punch in to do their jobs. As far as a cry for help from the citizenry, well that's what your elected officials do for a living. I for one LIKE the fact that police officers operate under the rule of law and not the rule imposed by public opinion. They do not do what the whims of the constituents wish them to do, or the politicians. They do what the law allows them to do. Their constitutional constraints are rooted in legal system that balances the needs of society with the rights of the accused and they toe the line everyday. Trust me, you'll miss them if they were suddenly gone.
Comm

Originally posted by LegalTender

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by LegalTender

 

Listen, I'm posting answers to your questions based on what I know. From legal training, experience, and common knowledge. If you want a legal opinion from the USSC, a list of statutes and codes, or a formal case summary from a law library, go look it up. I would suggest Lexis Nexis Academic Universe.

As far as me authoring a brief for your amusement; I charge by the hour.

And sadly, yes, I do value my training at face value more than I value your assumptions and misconstructions of law. I wasn't ever trying to be insulting towards you, but it became fairly clear to me you lack the understanding of some very fundamental tenants of law. You are not alone in this world believe me. However, a guy with no legal training, preconceived notions, and an ideological position contradictory to societal life in a constitutional republic holds little sway with people with actual legal training.

I would suggest using this opportunity to learn from these officers instead of barfing up nonsensical arguments.
Comm

iv already done my research, but thx for the tips, i'll check em out. though all im saying, is that if you are trying to prove me wrong, your doing a terrible job of it. sry, let me spell it out for you, "ME READ, ME STUDY, ME HAVE FACTS. YOU NOT READ, YOU NOT STUDY, YOU NO HAVE FACTS." FYI, im only rude when its well deserved. and the fact still remains, you have given no substance to prove your claim. all you have presented, (and this go's for all the officers on this thread) is hearsay.

What facts? Just because my actual facts mess up whatever it is you believe doesn't exactly mean mine are wrong by any means.

Hey folks, I've just figure the whole thing out.
Actually, YOU have no rights when dealing with a cop.....he/she has rights, but no you do not has rights.
So to make matters easier; just shut the f-up and do what he/she says.....and hope everything goes smoothly.
I'm blunt so please don't be offended.
In case, ya'll feel offended, ya'll have my deepest apology.

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


You must not have read the thread about the cops kicking in the wrong persons door and holding there 13 yearold girl at gun point..........admitedly this isnt an everyday occurence but its happened often enough. You dont have to be a crip to have this happen to you.

I ask you...........if some agency kicked in your front door, shot your dog, held you and your children at gunpoint...........what would your feelings be toward that agency from then on? Now imagine it happened to a close friend...........about the same right? Especially if you were innocent.

I know copss make a mistake now and then...........so do we..........but you can quit the force but we will always be a target for bad cops.

The truly sad thing in this is we are becoming two armed camps that at best distrusts the other and when it reaches a boiling point a lot of good cops and innocent people are going to pay the price along with the gangbangers and the crooked cops.

Originally posted by LegalTender
if your concerned with gang crimes, then why not ignore the harmless crimes. if you did that, then you and all other police, would have much more available resources to deal with the true criminals.
and i ask you and all other officers in this thread. if one does something that "may" cause harm, and is put into jail, or at the feet of the courts, and through conviction they are indeed caused harm. who has done the wrong doing?? a peaceful man is caused harm by his "protectors", PEACEFUL MAN, and you say this is just. i encourage you and all officers of the law to seek out those who harm the innocent. in my eyes, you are all cowards. the only replies you gave to my posts, were in an attempt to downplay, and twist. and you don't seem to address any of my true points..

Forgive me if I have a hard time seeing the gangs members as peaceful men when they kill each other over petty things like, "youre wearing the wrong colors for this hood", or "did you just disrespect me", and then see the innocents caught in the crossfire. People in those neighborhoods are to scared to go out into their own front yards. I was raised in a neighborhood like that and I am trying to make it better. However it isn't simple our department is down to 55% of the officers we are supposed to have most of the quality of officers if dropping considerably, but I won't give up I will try my best until I die or until the world doesn't need me anymore likely the former will happen before the later.

Secure

reply to post by commdogg

Well, unfortunately, as far as free societies go, that aren't currently in a total state of chaos, WE ARE in the country who's government governs least.

HAH! The United States is hardly the most liberal western nation.

Tax dollars??? That's just nonsensical. Pay taxes to whom? You just shut the government machine off remember?

Yes, there would be no taxes so the money currently being spent on policing would be instead spent in the free market on private security.

Protection by whom?

Private security. They do a much better job at preventing crimes than police. There's a reason the rich and famous employ private security.

I assume you mean the band of town thugs to protect you from the thugs from the other town.

No, I mean reputable private security firms being kept honest by free market competition.

What happens when those guys realize they can take your money and still shoot you dead?

They go out of business because they have assassinated all their clients. Not the best business model.

Is it really free to be an economic slave to someone with a gun?

Of course not!

Is that somehow better than the way we do it now?

That is the way we do it now! I'm saying its an immoral way to run society.

So best case scenario is armed conflict brinkmanship between towns. That will do well for free trade and human prosperity.

No, it will be terrible for free trade, that's why it would never happen. People are motivated by money. What is there to gain from a vigilante war between towns? You seem to be confusing communities with how the US government conducts its international affairs. It's going real well for free trade.

You think that government restrictions somehow frees up trade?

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure

I can't speak for all cops, but the big difference is my family are good law abiding people, there is no reason for a search warrant to be issued for my house,

What about a family of good but non-law abiding people?

I suppose you would have been just as happy to kick in the door and wave your gun in the face of families who helped slaves to escape when it was illegal? As long as that pay check keeps coming in, right? Plus you gotta make that promotion.

Forgive me if I have a hard time seeing the gangs members as peaceful men when they kill each other over petty things like, "youre wearing the wrong colors for this hood", or "did you just disrespect me", and then see the innocents caught in the crossfire. People in those neighborhoods are to scared to go out into their own front yards. I was raised in a neighborhood like that and I am trying to make it better. However it isn't simple our department is down to 55% of the officers we are supposed to have most of the quality of officers if dropping considerably, but I won't give up I will try my best until I die or until the world doesn't need me anymore likely the former will happen before the later.

Gangs are terrible and the only reason they exist are because they are able to fund themselves from the black market created by prohibition. The black market will always be there no matter how many gang members or drug dealers you bust. You reduce the supply and drive the price up, putting even more money in the pockets of the gangs. If you actually cared about reducing the problem of gangs you would do the only thing you could do to make a difference which is removing the black market by not persecuting the parties of voluntary transactions. But police work is not about doing what is right. It's about the law.

Originally posted by xXxtremelySecure

Originally posted by LegalTender
if your concerned with gang crimes, then why not ignore the harmless crimes. if you did that, then you and all other police, would have much more available resources to deal with the true criminals.
and i ask you and all other officers in this thread. if one does something that "may" cause harm, and is put into jail, or at the feet of the courts, and through conviction they are indeed caused harm. who has done the wrong doing?? a peaceful man is caused harm by his "protectors", PEACEFUL MAN, and you say this is just. i encourage you and all officers of the law to seek out those who harm the innocent. in my eyes, you are all cowards. the only replies you gave to my posts, were in an attempt to downplay, and twist. and you don't seem to address any of my true points..

Forgive me if I have a hard time seeing the gangs members as peaceful men when they kill each other over petty things like, "youre wearing the wrong colors for this hood", or "did you just disrespect me", and then see the innocents caught in the crossfire. People in those neighborhoods are to scared to go out into their own front yards. I was raised in a neighborhood like that and I am trying to make it better. However it isn't simple our department is down to 55% of the officers we are supposed to have most of the quality of officers if dropping considerably, but I won't give up I will try my best until I die or until the world doesn't need me anymore likely the former will happen before the later.

Secure

edit on 17-1-2011 by xXxtremelySecure because: Angry writing removed

and there you go again, twisting words, im trying to tell you to only make claim upon those who are in the wrong. gangs are fukin dumb, and dangerous, they harm innocent people. and make note commdogg, i have never in any of my previous posts suggested that we should do away with the police. i will never approve of any wrong doing, regardless of who they claim to be, or what purpose the had. to harm another is wrong, and the fact that at times police do not directly inflict harm upon another, they are still knowingly doing so. and hey, wheres that proof i asked for MR. lawyer, find any yet..haha, doubt it. and i would like to make one thing clear, i am happy when i hear of an officer rightfully arrests someone who has done harm. please continue to do so. and if you don't, then there will always be others to take your place.

Galatians 5:1: It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Originally posted by Azp420
Private security. They do a much better job at preventing crimes than police. There's a reason the rich and famous employ private security.

Private security are members of the general public. They are NOT held to a para military standard. Thus, anything they do wrong in their "line of duty" means they are still INNOCENT until proven guilty. They do not submit crown reports NOR have a reporting structure conducive to public or government scrutiny.. Basically they can pretty much do whatever they want and are not restricted by the same rules that govern the way police officers serve the public.

So any "SECURITY" brutality on general public is more viewed as a "consensual" fight. haha. Making them more efficient. haha.

Originally posted by Azp420
reply to post by commdogg

 

Well, unfortunately, as far as free societies go, that aren't currently in a total state of chaos, WE ARE in the country who's government governs least.

HAH! The United States is hardly the most liberal western nation.

Tax dollars??? That's just nonsensical. Pay taxes to whom? You just shut the government machine off remember?

Yes, there would be no taxes so the money currently being spent on policing would be instead spent in the free market on private security.

Protection by whom?

Private security. They do a much better job at preventing crimes than police. There's a reason the rich and famous employ private security.

I assume you mean the band of town thugs to protect you from the thugs from the other town.

No, I mean reputable private security firms being kept honest by free market competition.

What happens when those guys realize they can take your money and still shoot you dead?

They go out of business because they have assassinated all their clients. Not the best business model.

Is it really free to be an economic slave to someone with a gun?

Of course not!

Is that somehow better than the way we do it now?

That is the way we do it now! I'm saying its an immoral way to run society.

So best case scenario is armed conflict brinkmanship between towns. That will do well for free trade and human prosperity.

No, it will be terrible for free trade, that's why it would never happen. People are motivated by money. What is there to gain from a vigilante war between towns? You seem to be confusing communities with how the US government conducts its international affairs. It's going real well for free trade.

You think that government restrictions somehow frees up trade?

The "most liberal nation"? Okay, who is? I'll bite.
Hmmmm yes. So this all hinges on "reputable" private security firms. What exactly, other than the fantasy free market, is keeping them reputable? Whats the incentive not to engage in predatory business practices if literally no one has the collective authority to shut them down?
Since the "free market" will now hinge on the integrity of private armies, what keeps the market free? Who tells them what their services are worth, or more likely, what happens when they tell YOU what their services are worth, or else. What happens when they realize that they really are in charge and no one is in a position to challenge them?
Oh and what prevents resource based conflict between "trading partners"? What happens when one community needs resources possessed by another and doesn't have the means to pay? Yet, they have this big private army... Hmmm.
I'm all for free trade, yet regulation has its place doesn't it? What with child labor, workplace hazards and the like. Ever read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair?

reply to post by Demoncreeper


Any cases of brutality by employees of a particular firm will result in public outcry and people switching to more honorable competing firms. The people are voting with their wallets. This is a huge advantage over the current system where public outcry falls on the deaf ears of corporate-loving politicians.