More evangelists appointed to Lords, Christians desperate to force their delusion upon my children

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Part of the gift of free will (which isn't located in 3D time-space btw), is that you are free to imprison yourself within a very small and very constrained subjective isolation chamber of your own making (perception is reality), while the immense ocean of truth and liberation, extends itself, unexplored, on the other side of your cell door.

Interesting - your point is workable if you believe that the 'truth is out there'. This is a faux pas in existentialist thinking, in that many of us believe that the truth is actually 'inside us' - the deeper you look inside, the more you learn about what is out there. We are mirrors of our existence, interpreting the picture we take in.

Rev.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by nerbot

 

take a look at the Uk education act just for starters -

"each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship."

Pick a deity, any deity as long as it "broadly christian"

So tell me,how exactly is christianity so much different to Islam ?

Not only "Christian", "The Church of England".

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by autowrench

 

I have a friend over there, and she tells me things is getting bad in a lot of areas of law and government. Some want o force Sharia law on everyone, and teach in the schools.

She doesn't lie (unlike the religious ) the christians are in a panic their churches are being turned into flats and furniture shops due to lack of interest (and lack of evidence) in their delusion.
They desperate to get access to young minds and in my opinion are the ones stirring up the fearmongering in relation to sharia law etc.

Indeed, it is true that many a Muslim would have sharia law in the uk if they could but that's a dead dog on the off in the UK, there is simply too much money involved in bacon, breasts, and womens magazines lol

Lack of interest -- how much interest do you have in your flavor of exclusion?

Originally posted by The Revenant

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Part of the gift of free will (which isn't located in 3D time-space btw), is that you are free to imprison yourself within a very small and very constrained subjective isolation chamber of your own making (perception is reality), while the immense ocean of truth and liberation, extends itself, unexplored, on the other side of your cell door.

Interesting - your point is workable if you believe that the 'truth is out there'. This is a faux pas in existentialist thinking, in that many of us believe that the truth is actually 'inside us' - the deeper you look inside, the more you learn about what is out there. We are mirrors of our existence, interpreting the picture we take in.

Rev.

So why the lack of understanding then regarding the true nature of Jesus Christ, his teachings, his word, mission and purpose (Great Work), and the degree to which that self-realized person may serve as a model of inspiration for the human being, pointing, to our own true nature and identity ie: made in the image of God?

P.S. I believe it is innerant AND trascendant, whereby everything is included within, except the Absolute, which by its very nature must be transcendant. (indespensible I-Thou relationship)

"And as my father (first/last cause, spirit of life and love) sent me, even so send I you."

There is inclusion, and separation, and as it sits, we are included, obviously, but separation could still be possible if placed under judgement by the standard of absolute perfection, and any such inclusion, or separation, with continuity, leads only in one of two directions, eternal life, or death (at the very least imprisonment, until the very last penny has been paid, since for everything, there is a price which must be paid).

That many Christians are in error, does not place Christ in error.

I call it "Churchianity" to make the appropriate distinction.

Lastly - my presupposition here in making these statements is that Materialist Monism (matter is primary) is dead, and that Monistic Idealism (consciousness is primary) must be adopted, as the only resolution to the quantum paradoxes.

Originally posted by The Revenant
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

Ok maybe I was wrong in my post in response to you, about one thing in particular, but not what you might think - i'll let you figure that one out.

You've used a typical lesser educated theist argument and changed the word - you've used atheist instead of atheISM. Get it right my good putz.

I will admit when I'm wrong - but I'm not wrong about this - you can show me any internet dictionary you like, manipulated by whichever method you fancy, you're wrong, and you know it.

Rev.

There is virtually zero difference between atheism and atheist. BOTH words pertain to religion and therefore are religious beliefs. And both words refer to the belief that there is NO God.

You'd be hard pressed to find any atheist who would not say "I believe God does not exist". You'd also be hard pressed to find any subscriber to atheism that would not say "I believe God does not exist".

Agnostics are (by definition) the ones who do not have religious beliefs. Atheists and therefore subscribers to atheism (by definition) do have religious beliefs.

Use nearly any sample of atheists and nearly any dictionary you want. You'll get to the same conclusion.

reply to post by civilchallenger

You'd be hard pressed to find any atheist who would not say "I believe God does not exist". You'd also be hard pressed to find any subscriber to atheism that would not say "I believe God does not exist".

Atheists and therefore subscribers to atheism (by definition) do have religious beliefs.

Don't be so bloody ridiculous

I am an atheist ," I do not believe the yahwhe/ jesus god exists", simple end of no religion seems when all else has failed in the xtian argument resort to the good old try and turn atheism into a religion majik trick.

Incidentally as a christian rarely believes that Zeus exists then this would make a christian an atheist in respect of zeus.

So, as you are not so hard pressed to find an atheist that would not say what you quoted then you are completely wrong !

reply to post by etcorngods

Not only "Christian", "The Church of England".

Wrong, it's broadly christian pick up the phone and contact a few LEAs.

Ever wonder what the average evangelical christians motive may be?
The OP mentions global domination, no... christianity is a personal
persuit, i think we will leave the aspirations of world control to the
muslims. So why would one get so emotional when confronted with
a christian offering a gift, the greatest gift imaginable? Eternal life!
I think the OP knows the truth deep down and this is why he
fights it so hard!
If you believed in eternal life and the ability to obtain it, had a real
love of your fellow human, would you share this knowledge or keep
it for yourself?

reply to post by AngelLily

I told her that I didn't believe and wasn't ready to either. She wanted me to stop the car so that we could say a prayer together. I was scared! I'm pretty sure she was slightly mad. When I brought up evolution, which I strongly believe in, she told me it was all a big conspiracy to decry the religious, all lies.
She used a jar of jam as an example - when you pick fruit and make it into a jam, it's dead, if you leave that jar of jam, it becomes mouldy and rots, how is that evolution? WTF?! How could anybody with an ounce of intelligence use that kind of example as a reasonable argument? B

Dear god that made me laugh nice post by the way.

Many of these Christians are street trolls, as times can be difficult emotional an sometimes scary , they need to somehow rationalize (rational - lies ?) the crap around them and use jesus in a jam jar as a kind of security blanket.

Christians seem to need a parent around when life gets crap and their unable to have any influence on the crap bits, what better than an invisible dad that lives in the sky.

When things work out , "hey dad did it how great is he."

When things don't work out, "The devil made it happen"

When the jesus god in the book tells the gullible to be like little children they certainly do and some.

reply to post by lestweforget

So why would one get so emotional when confronted with a christian offering a gift, the greatest gift imaginable? Eternal life!

Der, did you miss the bit about evidenc ?

I think the OP knows the truth deep down and this is why he fights it so hard!

Hellooo, the OP knows a money making blag when he sees one

If you believed in eternal life and the ability to obtain it, had a real love of your fellow human, would you share this knowledge or keep it for yourself?

Dude if you were starving and I had a pork pie I would give it to you, I honestly would.

However, if I read in a book that there's an invisible magik pie factory somewhere and it's all mine I wouldn't take it on face value and go around insisting that every person I meet, looks a little anorexic and insist they join me on the pie factory hunt or they will surely die.

reply to post by The Djin


Hi there Djin,
thanks for a quick reply, so if i read between the lines are you answering my
original question of motive with sharing? Thats not so bad is it?

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by lestweforget

 

So why would one get so emotional when confronted with a christian offering a gift, the greatest gift imaginable? Eternal life!

Der, did you miss the bit about evidenc ?

I suggest you read up a bit, including my posts and a book called "The Self Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami. If consciousness if primary, instead of matter, and if separation is an illusion (maya), then it's a whole new ballgame.

"There is a principal which serves as a bar against all information and as proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man (or his children) in everlasting ignorance. That principal is - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer, Scientist.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

If you are infering that science disproves christianity i must dissagree,
recent archeological discoveries comply with biblical history.

reply to post by lestweforget

No I'm talking about a very new and a very old way of looking at the world, which validates Christian philosophy, while pointing to an awesome potentiality within and among human beings. I like to call it "the re-enchantment of the cosmos", which to realize will involve having to give up outmoded and useless ways of being and thinking, and ASSUMing, or a new mind, an open mind, a beginners mind. The Christian literalists too have made the same mistake, but not the mystics, who grok.

There is lazy thinking involved, on both the part of Christians as well as atheists. Ironically I think that God has made room for both POV's and that common ground exists between us, which is the very unconditioned ground of being on which we stand, and through which we are to relate to one another with mutuality, love and acceptance (a high expression of love). Christ commands, and models, nothing less, after all..

The difference here I suppose is that the Christian, like me, will cry, at our ignorance, while the atheist probably just doesn't give a crap.

ie: just check out the post below this one ... revealing just that very ignorance.. it makes me so sad..

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

If you are infering that science disproves christianity i must dissagree,
recent archeological discoveries comply with biblical history.

To which archaeological discoveries are you referring? Links?

One of the most common evangelical tactics is to make blanket, unsupported extra-biblical statements attempting to link or dislink science from religion. It goes both ways. Some groups try and use "science" to "prove" the 7 day/7000 year theory. Look at the "Creation" museums which try and use the bible to "scientifically" disprove the existence of dinosaurs.

I fully understand the point you are trying to make. Some will say they are no threat, or say you are fear mongering, but Religon has no place in gov't. In fact, pretty sure it says somewhere (Bible), they are only required to serve god, not gov't.

Just look at the effects of mixing the two. This is just ridiculous, and frankly Im tired of it. A complete and total seperation is needed.

Just one more thing, I may also be accused of being 'discrimintory', but if 'YOU' were part of a minority like me (more like Minority Minority...if that makes any sense) you would be scared sh**less about any sort of religon taking power...ie, christian, muslim. I am gay, and the most hated on this planet when it comes to religon. Imagine how that feels for just one moment. Its especially hard when you don't know why you are so hated, or such a threat.It all comes down to what I do in my bedroom...which is really no one's business.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I suggest you read up a bit, including my posts and a book called "The Self Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami. If consciousness if primary, instead of matter, and if separation is an illusion (maya), then it's a whole new ballgame.

On the face of it Goswami seems plausible I found what he had to say in What the Bleep Do We Know quite interesting, but nevertheless is is treated with skepticism by equally qualified physicists.

Nevertheless this is a distraction from the thread topic where any relationship between the writing s of Amit Goswami , and the ravings of the yahweh/jesus gods in the bibles are very tenuous to say the least perhaps better kept for another thread..

Originally posted by sonia74
I fully understand the point you are trying to make. Some will say they are no threat, or say you are fear mongering, but Religon has no place in gov't. In fact, pretty sure it says somewhere (Bible), they are only required to serve god, not gov't.

Just look at the effects of mixing the two. This is just ridiculous, and frankly Im tired of it. A complete and total seperation is needed.

Just one more thing, I may also be accused of being 'discrimintory', but if 'YOU' were part of a minority like me (more like Minority Minority...if that makes any sense) you would be scared sh**less about any sort of religon taking power...ie, christian, muslim. I am gay, and the most hated on this planet when it comes to religon. Imagine how that feels for just one moment. Its especially hard when you don't know why you are so hated, or such a threat.It all comes down to what I do in my bedroom...which is really no one's business.

I'm with you all the way Sonia. Just look at what is happening in Uganda at the moment. Current.tv recently released a 45 minute documentary about American evangelical missionary groups in Uganda and their support of both the Lord's Resistance Army which kidnaps and brainwashes child soldiers and provides rape-wives to LRA leaders AND the official government extreme anti-gay laws which are among the harshest in the world. Gay and Lesbian folks are burned alive in that country outside the cities. The documentary is called, ironically enough, "Missionaries of Hate," and I have found it impossible to find any more than a few clips of it online. Not even a torrent. I wonder if it's evangelical hackers. I know they exist because one lives in my town.

reply to post by The Djin


I wasn simply attempting to point out the degree of ignorance involved here. For example, have you ever READ the sayings of Jesus? Could you see how those might square with a oneness or Monistic Idealism POV..? People cannot be so foolish as to assume they already KNOW for certain what is and is not a valid frame of reference, or can they?

Just please don't ASSUME is all I'm asking, there may be something there worthy of understanding, or re-discovery, which is what I and other once-atheists like C.S. Lewish have found. Just please be civilized, and not ignorant or foolish, you might be way wrong for reasons you're not even aware of, in other words you just might have a bit of a blindspot, is what I'm really suggesting. Could it be..? Is it possible you were mistaken?

reply to post by sonia74

I am gay, and the most hated on this planet when it comes to religon. Imagine how that feels for just one moment. Its especially hard when you don't know why you are so hated, or such a threat.It all comes down to what I do in my bedroom...which is really no one's business.

I've never heard it put like that before dude bloody heartbreaking as a matter of fact.
Why or why is it so difficult for these bigoted bastards to even consider the possibility that they could be wrong ?