More evangelists appointed to Lords, Christians desperate to force their delusion upon my children

reply to post by The Djin


I agree with you that the militant Christian sects infiltrating government seats is frightening, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. The majority of the U.S. is Christian, most of our representatives are Christian, and I'm not living in a theocracy. Granted, there are crazy people who want to turn this country into one, and we do have a long way to go in many areas, but the militant Christian sect is, generally speaking, kept at bay by the moderates. Most Christians aren't crazies who want to force their beliefs on you; it's just that the crazy minority have bigger mouths.

reply to post by The Djin

Needless to say I'm in the forefront of the fight to free society and our children from these wicked people.

You are a prime example of someone who post purposely to spread hate. IMHO

reply to post by bogomil


Actually I read the whole post starting from the OP. I apologize about the 50,000 comment towards Y2KJMan as it should have been to you.

So when I say it is a trap but when you are saying your opinion it is reason and logic and not a trap?

No, I didn't miss it, but I can't see how this relates to christianity's killing millions before modern science was even thought of, or how 'science' was brought into it all. Except ofcourse, that you by misquoting me wanted to score a debate point. You certainly are a very clever person, who can make such elegant traps.

You can't see how Christians murdering relates to tools designed by science to harness our ability to murder? I am not saying Christian past is all glory and no regrets, at all. In fact, I claim the opposite. I condemn those murders and if I was there I would have been against them. But through their mistakes many people evolved for the better. not everyone, but many.

A lot of Christians are against the wars being waged by the world against Afghanistan and Iraq.

I said in my post to Y2KJMan thusly: " Seen from a rational and logical perspective, your (religious) beliefs ARE undoubtly inferior to secular ones." I didn't especially point to science, because I find the 'satanic science' debate rather moronic.

But I'll still stay with my opinion, that christian beliefs are inferior in a RATIONAL and LOGIC perspective. You get it this time? (In case this is beyond you, what's rational about a 6.000 year old geocentric universe????)

Okay. I never ones mentioned satanic science, that is just you trying to paint a biased opinion on all of us. 6,000 year old geocentric universe? Since when did I mention the world was 6,000 year old? Again you have painted me with biased before you knew my stance on my belief. You think Christian is someone who always holds true to creationism and the old testament of women are not equal. I am the opposite, I think everyone is equal. We must change with the times but we must maintain our love for one another and for God.

That is my stance. Nowhere did I write that I believe in creationism. I would also like to add that many people I know don't believe in creationism. They respect the idea but when it comes down to it they have no comment on evolution or creationism.

I actually don't agree with creationism being taught in the school system at all. It should be taught as a myth and a myth only.

Furthermore you enlightened us:

"It isn't a smokescreen it is the truth. Jesus said:..........."

You really so bad off, that you don't know what circle-argumentation IS? Sorry, I'll not even try to waste my time on explaining it to you. For further communication I can cite any old holy book of my choice and you can use your book. An approach which certainly will commend christianity to non-believers, who only are waiting for a chance to be saved through listening to a selfcontradictory bunch of non-sense which is true, because it says it's true.

Well than you disagree with that quote? You are right I don't know what circle-augmentation is and if you don't want to explain what it is than don't bring it up. The quote simply describes that you shouldn't be a hypocrite. You are pointing fallacies in my argument when your has fallacies as well. That was all I was saying. Yet you come in here and say your all WRONG! Christianity is EVIL! Christianity will destroy the world!

Tell me if you agree or disagree. Most, if not all, atheists who ruled, ruled with an iron fist.

"They" (=liberals) don't hold ultimate power. That's the whole idea of liberalism. Whereas ultimate power is the political system examplified by all fascists ideologies (amongst them christian theocracy).

Your further comments about individual spirituality I can ofcourse only agree with. That's part of the inclusive liberal system, but if you had read this thread from the start, instead of jumping in somewhere from halfread posts, you would have noticed, that the OP topic was about social contexts and social consequences of christian missionary or invasive attitudes. Not your personal spiritual life, which may be interesting for some people, but not for me as a posting opponent.

I am glad we can agree on something.

Re Control

I can only agree with you, that invasive christianity with world dominion aspirations must be met. But in the case of my present homecountry, the 'locals' don't present an immediate big threat.

Our present problems lie on a more direct poltical level, where the dark empire repeatedly has interfered with or bypassed our constitution. But that's beyond this thread.

reply to post by The Djin


The world is still run by Romans and Pharisees.

Having said that, all children deserve a relationship with God.

Technology are currency are no substitute for the creator of the universe.

Peace

Re Equinox99

Fine with me. You have finally settled down to some kind of equilibrium on science, religion, politics (and logic, which was what I used in my post). This way the polarized and idiotic debate on (satanic, as it often called in such a context) science and religion can be avoided.

I don't like extremism (of any kind), if it tries to interfere with democratic, liberal, inclusive society. That would include extremist atheism also.

Religion and politics etc are ideologies. Leaving social sciences apart (they are still in their infancies and don't produce technical weapons anyway), hard science is a tool/methodology and since the 'fall' of scientism, it hasn't tried much to make ethical or similar models of existence. It still tries to 'define away' theism, which I find stupid. But hard science per se isn't a social ideology (and should stay that way. Otherwise we'll soon see technocracy as a contender for dominance).

A circle-argument is when you start with assumptions, which lead to answers, in their turn 'proving' the basic and original assumptions. A dog chasing its own tail.

Or the joke: "Here's the answer. Where can we start to prove it?"

For some reason you forget that science isnt the end all answer anyways. Not one single facet of the origins of life and the universe is even close to being proven. Far from it, the theories have so many holes you might as well be believing in a deity creating everything from nothing.

I just dont understand how you can claim that everything in the world that is bad comes from a religion of some sort (that was me reading between the lines). Remember, the USSR, you know... the tens of millions murdered by a "religion free" government? Yeah, where did you hear about that happening in western europe or the good ole US of A. You didnt, because we have that diversity of thought that does include us, that is those of us that believe in something greater than ourselves.

You dont like it? Move to commie china where christians are still persecuted by the government. Otherwise you might as well stop spewing the hot air.

reply to post by zroth

Having said that, all children deserve a relationship with God.

Which one and how exactly ?

Sorry Y2KJMan,

but you're trying to put me in some black/white pigeonholes, which I actually have been defying on most of my time on ATS. You may have noticed, that I call myself a 'metaphysicist' and not one of those categorizations associated with theism/non-theism.

Many of these readymade labels of entrenched positions are completely irrelevant to me, and I could easily explain a model satisfying approaches from both epistemology, science and the extramundane. But that's nor part of this thread.

What I can't stand are idiots, who transgress their competence and social rights on grounds of some 'ultimate' truth they believe themselves in possession of.

Practically all ideologies can be carried to extremes (and most have), but that's not a justification for others to follow their example.

And for Europe and the Americas not having people killed by christianity in their millions. Pull out a history-book and start reading.

As to your suggestion of my moving to China, you are resorting to clichées now, and you're still demonstrating this fascistic christian arrogance, which is so typical of your ilk. If someone protests against you, you are either whining about persecution or telling everyone about your superiority, which can't be questioned. The holy bubble's paralyzing effects on intellectual activity.

Just for the record: I'm according to local politics rather conservative, but true to my liberal attitudes, I do not condemn communism totally and without knowledge, as you seem to do in your black/white mindset.

I'm not the one threatening liberal society, but you could possibly be.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by zroth

 

Having said that, all children deserve a relationship with God.

Which one and how exactly ?

There is only one. The how is up to you. Start with your heart and ask for one.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

You are a prime example of someone who post purposely to spread hate. IMHO

I don't hate anyone my friend, I'm merely offering a message of hope to those who've enslaved their minds to the delusion of christianity.

But I forgive you for your error my friend

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by zroth

 

Having said that, all children deserve a relationship with God.

Which one and how exactly ?

There is only one. .

You have proof of this of course ?

reply to post by bogomil


Secularists don't have the power to take anything away from Christians in the United States. And law is what the Congress and State Houses say it is in America. In both England and the US elected officials make up the law. In both countries Christians are elected.

So secularists can go on and pretend they are the smartest and the dictators of law if it makes the insecure souls feel better. But it is not so. We are all lucky secularists are not as all powerful and big as they like to believe they are because in reality, smart is not a word which describes the secular relgion.

reply to post by The Djin



Indeed.

But don't take my word for it. seek it for yourself.

Re Sara 123123

You wrote:

"So secularists can go on and pretend they are the smartest and the dictators of law if it makes the insecure souls feel better. But it is not so. We are all lucky secularists are not as all powerful and big as they like to believe they are because in reality, smart is not a word which describes the secular relgion."

Are you sure, that you're not confusing 'secularists' with something else? And what is a 'secular religion'?

Both in the context of this thread and in your psychological profiling of 'secularists', you are introducing concepts and ideas totally unknown to me. It will help me to respond, if I know, what you're talking about.

Hi Djin,

I read Zroth's answer to you. That guy has a sharp mind.

So just for the fun of it I googled 'god gods' and got 86 million hits, one of which may be THE 'god' Zroth refers to.

I have old age pension, and much time on my hands, whereas you probably have some social obligations such as a job, children etc., so if you want, I would like to help. We could take 43 million each (I expect to live a few years more, so there's a chance, I on my part will be able to see it through).

But then there's the possibility, that Zroth's one and only 'god' isn't on google, in which case everything becomes really complex, and the only hope is to open one of those direct channelled lines to beyond event horizon, they all talk so much about (even if they seem to end up different places).

In a way it was easier in the good old days, where they just burned those with competing god-options. You knew what you had to relate to then. Not all this seeking, searching, picking, choosing, making decissions, all leading to dark nights of the soul and existential uncertainty.

The last Christian died on the cross , the rest are just copycats.

At its base,I believe religion is nothing more than another form of government built solely on fraud and deception. I think many high-level adherents of faith don't actually believe in any of it and simply put up a false front and use it to control the masses or to make tons of money.

Conversely,many people in science,particularly archeology,will freely admit that based on their own studies,they've come to realize that religion is a hoax but they still continue to believe in it anyway as they feel safe and happy with it. Talk about contradictions creating more contradictions.

The very elusive and vaporous nature of religion is what makes it so hard to stamp out not matter how 'intelligent' people claim to be. It is the perfect weapon for TPTB to divide and conquer the masses.

Oh God,not this bulls**t again. Jeez Djin, don't you have anything better to post than Christian hate? I've seen all your threads, and just gotta say "Wow". You seriously have issues you need to tend to.

I agree that all Christians are hypocrites, and all screw up, and none have the answers your looking for. But so is everybody else in the world, including you.

Its beyond me why someone trying to share their beliefs is such a evil thing. You speak as if they were trying to eat your children. Nobodies busting down your door, putting a gun at your head and telling you to recite the Lords Prayer or the Apostles Creed. Although I think it would be funny if they did (oh, your gonna use this comment to show the world how a single persons opinion represents and proves that all Christians are evil aren't you? :@@

If you are so against religion then don't live by it. Live by the secular(evolutionary) rules, where the strong preys upon the weak - survival of the fittest. Murder, rape, theft, robberies, swindling, is all fair game, it is after all survival of the fittest. Evolution does not reward altruism and the charitable. It rewards the greedy, predatory and the unremorseful.

So even if my religion is a bunch of bull, I would follow it just on the premises that it carries with it some guidance to distinguish myself from animals.

Don't bother to reply, I won't be reading it, you'll just annoy me.

Originally posted by DrChuck
Oh God,not this bulls**t again. Jeez Djin, don't you have anything better to post than Christian hate? I've seen all your threads, and just gotta say "Wow". You seriously have issues you need to tend to.

I agree that all Christians are hypocrites, and all screw up, and none have the answers your looking for. But so is everybody else in the world, including you.

Its beyond me why someone trying to share their beliefs is such a evil thing. You speak as if they were trying to eat your children. Nobodies busting down your door, putting a gun at your head and telling you to recite the Lords Prayer or the Apostles Creed. Although I think it would be funny if they did (oh, your gonna use this comment to show the world how a single persons opinion represents and proves that all Christians are evil aren't you? :@@

Actually, I think I'll chime in for this one...I come from a military background, and when I was active duty there was very much the psychologically coercive equivalent of holding a gun to my head and ordering me to behave according to the evangelical standards of my command structure. I was lead to believe that in no uncertain terms would I ever be promoted beyond one paygrade above my then current one unless I confessed that Jesus Christ was my only Lord and savior at the alter which my commanders prayed before....ie: THEIR church...not mine. I was told that my Christianity (at the time) was false Christianity and that our command didn't have room for my kind at the higher levels.

If you are so against religion then don't live by it. Live by the secular(evolutionary) rules, where the strong preys upon the weak - survival of the fittest. Murder, rape, theft, robberies, swindling, is all fair game, it is after all survival of the fittest. Evolution does not reward altruism and the charitable. It rewards the greedy, predatory and the unremorseful.

Typical evangelical fundamentalist dualism. One is either "religious" (which is nearly always recognizant of only Christianity as being religious), or they are an evolutionist. There is no middle ground. Only good or evil. Only black or white. Another thing that I learned while I was active duty, in my military occupation, is that good people can do bad things for good reasons with good outcomes, bad people can do good things for bad reasons with good outcomes. There are many combinations of those two sample equations. Life is not one or the other. Just like politics and ideologies do not exist in a linear form (as in right or left) but exist in more of a spherical nature where one can be at any of the millions of possible coordinates within that sphere.

So even if my religion is a bunch of bull, I would follow it just on the premises that it carries with it some guidance to distinguish myself from animals.

Don't bother to reply, I won't be reading it, you'll just annoy me.

But do you really need that religion for that guidance? Are you not capable of making observations on your own and making your own interpretations of those observations based on previous experience? Your last line is the epitome of the evangelical fundamentalist mindset. Essentially you just told him that you were going to say your piece to him and deny him any possibility of responsible and mature dialogue. Very Christian of you.