Freemasonry, secret or not?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Are you refering to the Devil of the Judeo-Christian belief systems? If so, who created the Devil? And if the Devil was created by another being how can the Devil be a diety? The Devil's subordinate position to a Creator would automatically exclude that being from a position of being a God if one were to observe a montheistic approach to God and Creation.

Sorry to jump in here, but I see this statement as totally disingenuous. The Bible calls the Devil the "god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4) and the ruler of the world. True it teaches there is one true God, but the word god can simply mean someone with power. In that case the Devil is certainly a god, certainly not God, but nevertheless a god.

Originally posted by driley
Anyway, Crowley: Not a Regular Mason.

Was he (Crowley) a mason? If he was, why wasn't he shunned, or kicked out, or expelled, or whatever it is you do to people that are not worthy to be a Freemason? I find it hard to accept that he would be allowed to remain a Freemason after the things he himself claimed to believe, and he himself said he did, unless Freemasonry accepts/tolerates/propagates/encourages/condones/permits (choose one or more) the sort of behavior he claimed to represent, and the works he wrote.

reply to post by Calender


hehe irregular Mason= Belongs to a bootleg wanna be masonic Lodge
In other words a Lodge usurping the Masonic name.

I collect Bibles. I had a "Freemason Bible" in my home long before I even knew who they were. I got it at a Goodwill. You would be surprised at the good quality Bibles you can pick up there. Anyway when I finally became aware of the Freemasons (a little before my granddad's death) I remember pulling the Freemason Bible off one of my bookshelves with all of the different versions and translations of Bibles I have. It is basically a King James Version of the Bible and in the beginning it has a chart with the different degrees of Freemasonry, and other freemasonry paraphernalia and charts and pictures (one of them was an amusing depiction of what Solomon's temple looked like, more like the tower of Babel then Jehovah's temple). Also inside it was a letter that was obviously given to a new initiate. I don't have that Bible anymore so I can't remember everything in it by rote. But I do remember a couple of very startling details about it.

One, the titles of the different ranks of Freemasonry, very self-aggrandizing. Sovereign/Masterful things like that. I could not even begin to imagine claiming to be any of the grandiose words they call themselves. That was very alarming to me.

In it it said that a Freemason had to believe in a god, and that the soul is immortal. That I do remember. That was a prerequisite to becoming a Freemason, according to what I read in that Bible.

Of course I turned in that same Bible to Ezekiel 18:4 and read that the "soul that is sinning it itself will die." Then I realized that the teachings of Freemasonry were false. As I personally believe in the Bible, and it teaches that the soul dies. So I for one could never become a Freemason based on this single fact. Its teaching goes contrary to the Bible and by a consequence is false.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I think the free masons still try to be discreet, but almost everyone knows they exist, so its hardly a secret. Freemasons are really artists, who use colours, shapes and sounds to manipulate or create a reaction.

Originally posted by GlennCanady
This guys research is SOLID but I'm sure the Masons will tell you it's all lies.

Debunked. by an anti-Mason, nonetheless...

Originally posted by wcitizen
Thanks for the info. But surely, the Illuminati (and their Agenda21 - population culling through murder, direct or indirect, etc) and the alleged masonic wish for the good of society, are mutually exclusive?

You're right. They ARE mutually exclusive. The group currently popularly called "Illuminati" have nothing at all in common with Freemasonry.

If masonry is as good as you allege, why keep it so secret. Why the secret handshakes? Why not simply wear a badge. Wearing a badge would cut through the widespread belief that masonry is corrupt and takes care of its own above all else

Or you could just tattoo serial numbers on our forearms. After all, it's been done before...

Why the need for secrect signals?

Because tyrants want to kill us. Hitler, Mussolini and Saddam Hussein all had death orders against Masons.

But the problem is, that abuse seems very widespread. What does freemasonry do against corruption of members? Because honestly, it doesn't seem to be working.

However, if you insist that masons strive for high levels of integrity, that should surely mean that it happens less or very infrequently amongst masons - which clearly is not the case.

Perhaps you are not aware of the very real concerns many sincere people have about masons?
In any case, I understand from your post that corruption is rampant in masonry - which is what my impression is too.

Can you actually cite any cases of corruption among Masons? Or are you just assuming that because we keep secrets from you, there must be corruption? You seem to be going on and on like it's a foregone conclusion, yet you've indicated no specific cases where it's occurred...

I have to disagree. freemasonry is full of secrets. I know mason's one 3rd degree on 22nd. president woodrow wilson said it best "its a fraternity within a freternity".

reply to post by Calender




yea i dont understand how anybody would want something to do with a pedophile either, however masons all around the world talk about him like hes jesus or something.

usminc.org...

www.equalparenting-bc.ca...

www.jesus-is-savior.com...&%20Witchcraft/aleister_crowley.htm

I try to see Masonry from a distance. Look at it in it's most basic form and wonder how these beliefs have an effect on society.

The initiation ritual has to do with Hiram Abiff and how he would not divulge the secret of how he built Solomon's Temple correct? So it does seem to me that your very first ritual and one of the most important beliefs/values that you hold dear is keeping secrets. I know Morals are important too but lets just talk about the secrecy.

Freemasonry seems to attract businessmen, politicians, bankers, police officers, media, military leaders, CIA, judges and government officials. People in positions of power.

I'm going to switch gears here so stay with me. What is it people say whenever you talk about 9-11 conspiracies? They always say, "Hey if it was that big of a conspiracy how come a whistle blower hasn't come forth? Don't you think it would be hard to keep that many people from opening their mouth?"

The first thing I think about is De Soto Kansas. De Soto Kansas is a really small town. Probably a population of less than 200 people. They have a Masonic Hall. De Soto Kansas? Are you kidding me? And it's not just De Soto. It's all over in almost every city in America. You can see the signs when you drive into town. You'll see, "Welcome to Pleasantville" and all along the bottom of that city sign there'll be at least one Masonic sign. Sometimes several. Or other groups that are offshoots of Freemasonry.

And they all look up to Hiram Abiff as their hero. The guy that would not divulge the secret. So it's kind of ingrained in our culture. There's thousands of jobs in the US where they take secrecy very seriously. And there's a church for that and it's called Freemasonry. It's something a lot of people in the US learn, study and strive for. Powerful people have to keep secrets in their job so it just seems obvious they would be attracted to Masonry. And then you wonder why no one has come forward on 9-11.

reply to post by Cobra.EXE


Crowley a pedophile?
Please enlighten me with some proof...
I suggest you read Perdurabo by Richard Kacyinski PH.D who takes a non biased look into Crowley's life and dispels the myths with FACT.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


you could also join a church. whats the difference? either way u will obsess on specifics toward the belief system of your choice. should we obsess on the secretive nature of any society or church obsessively, or ask one simple question: is there conspiracy to destroy core higher principals of higher human freedom and expression [in harmony], and if so how can this ugly conspiracy be documented, proven? we need proof to respond.

so it seems to me the real issue isnt about masons. we have issues where the bush administration either lied or misinformed the american public, and wars resulted. why would any americans be obsessing on the shadows of freemasonry in the face of direct betrayal from those directly in front of them? distractions can be masterbations.

thats why this site has no edge if it wont jump up and be a lil harder on the solid side.

reply to post by Cobra.EXE


Hum, not allowed into our buildings? Find the address of your nearest Lodge and simply contact them. You will soon find out how secretive and closed they are. Did I say that? No, they will in fact welcome you with open arms.

Respected Foe? I am not sure whether to take that as a compliment or not. However, I am happy I have made an impact upon you, positively of course, I hope.

reply to post by urmenimu2


My friend, to join a church is to affliate yourself with one particular religion. I have no desire to do that. For me, God is all around us. God is out very fibre of existance. Of course I believe in divine creation and therefore a one all powerful God. However, I feel that that God resides in us, in everything around us. God is love, compassion and everything that is good. Evil, Satan, or whatever you wish to call it, is man's doing. Man creates evil. We have the abilty to be good or bad. Being bad takes us away from God. Godness and love bring us closer.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Thanks TLA, if I manage to get down there in the not too distant future, i'll definitely do that mate. So much to see, so much to do!

reply to post by Majestic Lumen

Correct you are. I had forgotten that the Paris lodge had not been recognized by the English. At any rate I found a wonderful article here..
www.freemasonry.bcy.ca...

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I think this should be read by everyone on here.Bravo. This is a powerful statement and is universal in it's message.

reply to post by ANSPHAR




why the hell would i ever take somebody elses input on what aliester crowley really was? much less somebody i know nothing about that is most likely part of a certain agenda?? wouldnt it be much easier to gather information from numerous sources just like i provided you???

or would you rather pretend you never saw those links much less clicked on them?? apples & oranges i guess.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher




if i offered to bet you $1000 that if i went and contacted skull & bones on behalf of entering and being witness to a ritual that i would get denied... would you take the bet???

exactly. thank you for answering that.

you wouldnt, because you know just as i do theres some cooky S### going on in there. dont beat around the bush please on the darker truths of these organizations. dont kid yourself or talk in circles.

2nd line.

reply to post by wcitizen


Good point. I wear a signet ring and wear a badge on my lapel. I am not ashamed of being a Mason, and do not mind my friends or anyone else know. In fact, I have had more questions regarding joining, after seeing my symbols, than I have negative remarks.