Freemasonry, secret or not?

Reply to JoshNorton
[

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate hearing your view on the incompatibility between the Illuminati and Freemasonry. That would mean, then, that none of the Illuminati are freemasons, and none who attend their Bilderberg meetings could be freemasons either (another 'group' which was kept 'secret' for many years).

I find your tone and manner interesting. I have said nothing against masons in any of my posts, and I've said more than once that these are genuine questions.

You say I'm going on and on - well, yes, I don't understand the secrecy and I am trying to understand - that means asking questions. That's how I learn. It's a shame that your reply lacks understanding and resorts to sarcasm, since I've been told on this thread that treating people with courtesy and respect are qualities masons aspire to.

You must surely be aware of the very bad name freemasonry has amongst a very large percentage of the population. Yes, I'm suspicious of secrecy, and history confirms that there is good reason for that. I am guessing/hoping that your response about fear of being killed is sarcasm too.....or else I would have to suspect that it's based on paranoia.

I could go and search on the internet to find examples of the kind of things to do with alleged and actual freemason corruption - but I don't think I need to, because you must surely also be aware of these things..

I have no doubt that many freemasons are good, decent people. It has also been admitted on this thread that freemasonry is rife with corruption. I believe this is also true. I've also read several ex-freemasons' accounts, and what they have to say about the very dark side of freemasonry - I believe there's some truth in that too.

But, since you find my honest, reasonable, courteous questions distasteful, thanks for your replies, I'll opt out of any further discussion about this with you.

reply to post by wcitizen


Please do not opt out. It is through contrary opinions that people learn. Just because two people cannot fully agree on a matter does not mean they cannot debate. I for one welcome your views. Here is a link I posted earlier, it may give you another insight on Masonry.

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

I sincerely hope to see more of you later on in this thread.

Cheers

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Do masons have any vested interest in Egyptology and alchemy like the rosicrucians? As in study them for any occult (hidden) knowledge?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I know you said that they are not your words, but there are rules about copying an entire book as a thread. even if it is not copywritten you still need to use quote tags. or '' do this ''.

www.acrobatplanet.com...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Are you refering to the Devil of the Judeo-Christian belief systems? If so, who created the Devil? And if the Devil was created by another being how can the Devil be a diety? The Devil's subordinate position to a Creator would automatically exclude that being from a position of being a God if one were to observe a montheistic approach to God and Creation.

WIKI

A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected

Doesn't have to be a God of the Judeo-Christians, or part of a monotheistic faith.
Preternatural (he isn't human) held in high regard, respected...a deity.

What's with the "if you's" ???

If you are refering to Runespider,...

If I am referring to someone specific I will say so. Otherwise I am speaking in general terms since we are not pen pals here but, discussing a subject we clearly have differing opinions on, or see two different sides of...I will always be speaking in general terms and never say "You this" or "you that" nor will I refer to another person here on ATS in a defamatory way or assail them personally with expletives .

Generally yes...it is disingenuous to enter into a cult where...
"Belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul are the two prime requirements for membership" and then say you are an atheist.

Freemasonry refers to the principles, institutions, and practices of the fraternal order of the Free and Accepted Masons. The largest worldwide society, Freemasonry is an organization of men based on the "fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man," using builders' tools as symbols to teach basic moral truths generally accepted by persons of good will. Their motto is "morality in which all men agree, that is, to be good men and true." It is religious in that a belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul are the two prime requirements for membership, but it is nonsectarian in that no religious test is used

Though some Masons trace their organization's origin back to the beginning of time
(much of their teaching is tied to Solomon's temple)

Masonry dates only to 1717. It was in that year that four lodges in Great Britain formed the first Grand Lodge of England, which became the Premier Grand Lodge of the world

www.rapidnet.com...

reply to post by cerberus00


Now that is a good question. Ancient Egyptian symbology, or at least some of it, is adopted by Masonry. Normally to signify geometry and the beauty it portrays. Some Masons profess that Masonry goes back to the dawn of Ancient Egypt. In fact, there are so many "experts" that claim to know the true origin of Freemasonry, that it becomes rather clouded in mystery. I suppose that is where a proportion of the mistrust originates from.

Alchemy? You can take that in the literal sense as in trying to transmutate base metals to gold or producing the Philosopher's Stone (spelling?) or it could be spititual transmutation, as in becoming closer to God. For the latter, I think you could say that is true.

reply to post by MR BOB


Thank you Mr. Bob. Although it was not totally copied, you comment is well noted.
Thank you.

Originally posted by cerberus00

Do masons have any vested interest in Egyptology and alchemy like the rosicrucians? As in study them for any occult (hidden) knowledge?

In my opinion, yes.

The very first line of the lecture given in the entered apprentice degree is as follows:
"The usages and customs among Freemasons have ever borne a near affinity to those of the ancient egyptians."

The alchemical act of turning lead into gold, representing the changing of the heart into a more meaningful one, is paralleled by the use of rough and perfect ashlars in Freemasonry.

However, only some Masons (like myself) are interested in the occult. Freemasonry leaves its symbolism up to the individual to use as they wish. I think it is only those who are actually interested in the occult who look for the links to Egyptian ritual, in order to understand them better.

Having said that, most masons have no interest in ancient Egyptian ritual or alchemy at all.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Very interesting. I guess I would have some in common with some masons then since sacred geometry and alchemy(which I follow as the literal path being part of the spiritual journey) are two of my biggest interests. Would masonry expand on my knowledge of these beyond what I can find from texts? I'm more concerned with gaining understanding of how the universe works as opposed to anything to do with personal or financial gain. Are these subjects something that just certain masons study on the side? Or is it something more mute like playing a small part in rituals as symbolic nods to history past?

reply to post by Saurus


Ah ok, sorry my last post was made before I saw yours.
Could I U2U you with some questions sometime since you have an interest?

reply to post by cerberus00


My obvious answer to that would be, please look up your nearest Lodge and pay them a visit. Many local Lodge hold open days, or they may simply invite you to one of their social gatherings. Speak with them openly and get a feel for the people there. If you are still interested, simply ask them for an application form.

Remeber, a person is never invited to join the Masons, you must approach them and apply under your own conviction.

Good Luck.

reply to post by cerberus00


Noooooo, don't ask Saurus, he is a shape shifting Iluminatum reptile cyber beast, with lasers for eyes.

Seriously though, on that subject and from what I have seen of his previous posts, he is probably the best of the Brethren to ask that particualr question.

Only joking about laser eyes Brother.

reply to post by cerberus00


But of course!

reply to post by TheLoneArcher




You mean laser EYE!

Actually, MasonicLight is more well versed in the Egyptian links to Freemasonry than I am. He's like a walking encyclopedia on the matter, whereas I am still learning.

But I am still happy to answer Cerberus's questions.

Originally posted by rusethorcain

A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected

Doesn't have to be a God of the Judeo-Christians, or part of a monotheistic faith.
Preternatural (he isn't human) held in high regard, respected...a deity.

Semantics. You understood what I wrote, the Devil, as a historical being, allegedly derives its power from being created by God and is therefore always in a subordinate position. There can only be one creator of all, and by virute of being created, Satan can not be it.

If I am referring to someone specific I will say so. Otherwise I am speaking in general terms since we are not pen pals here but, discussing a subject we clearly have differing opinions on, or see two different sides of...I will always be speaking in general terms and never say "You this" or "you that" nor will I refer to another person here on ATS in a defamatory way or assail them personally with expletives .

Duly noted, but I did not see any Masons hear posit that they are Aethists so I did not see the relevance of the comment unless it wass addresed to someone specific.

Generally yes...it is disingenuous to enter into a cult where...
"Belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul are the two prime requirements for membership" and then say you are an atheist.

I well understand this, to whom is it addressed?

Though some Masons trace their organization's origin back to the beginning of time
(much of their teaching is tied to Solomon's temple)

Masonry dates only to 1717. It was in that year that four lodges in Great Britain formed the first Grand Lodge of England, which became the Premier Grand Lodge of the world

It can now be traced, in some form, to the 10th Century via the Regius Poem.

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE


skull & bones is FREEMASONRY.

Skull and Bones has no relation to Freemasonry.

if anything, its a higher group up from freemasonic bodies.

Skull and Bones is a college frat. Most of its active members aren't even old enough to join the Masonic bodies, much less be "above them".

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I am looking for a video I saw not long ago that explains very well how and when the Masons became entangled with the Illuminati. They were ordered killed and hiding to save their lives. The Masons were already a secret society and so they hid among them. Soon the two groups agreed (or better some elements of the two groups bonded) to conceal each other.

I mean no disrespect to any of the Masons posting.
I have deep respect for good men religious or not who help bring along young men into society as functioning helpful members of that society.
I would however like to tell new initiates who may be entering the Freemasons just for the devil/Satan worshiping rituals - it might be better if they stayed home.

We will always try to keep a watchful eye to make sure that "society" does not have undue - unwanted, influence on any part of our government thus affecting adversely the day to day lives of citizens of America.
Could major corporations, (heads and founders of which are often Masons) have undue influence?
They already have. Now corporations can pick their politician and run advertising for them. One more step toward NWO. So you can see this is not inconsequential BS. People are wary and suspicious of them for good reason.

I can't locate the video I am looking for...but meantime here is this. Pretty entertaining.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

There can only be one creator of all, and by virute of being created, Satan can not be it.

You are preaching to the choir here...

I did not see any Masons hear posit that they are Aethists

Could you have missed it?

It can now be traced, in some form, to the 10th Century via the Regius Poem.

Well... la di da
Guessing you are not aware Solomons Temple was built in the 6th Century - making the origins of Masonry even earlier.

Originally posted by digby888

would the masons make alistair crowly a honery 32 degree mason knowing his mind if the masons

Aleister Crowley was not an "honery (sic) 32 degree mason".

He was never a member of a legitimate Masonic lodge or body. He was, however, an expert symbologist, and often referred to Masonic symbolism in his many writings.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
I would however like to tell new initiates who may be entering the Freemasons just for the devil/Satan worshiping rituals - it might be better if they stayed home.

I would also like to let people know that Freemasonry has nothing at all to do with devil/Satan worshiping. Only a true idiot would believe such garbage. You must believe in ONE supreme being. You are asked what you call him. if you answer Satan, meaning that you believe that Satan created everything, I think you would find yourself being asked to leave. Freemasonry is all about faith, brotherly love, and charity. (please note that worshiping false idols doesn't make that list)