Freemasonry, secret or not?

Well, I'm disappointed that the masons on this thread have chosen not to respond to some of the specific questions I've posted.

reply to post by network dude

I am sorry, just exactly who are you?

I began thousands of posts ago with Bohemian Grove, Illuminati, Freemason, Builder-berg Group, related topics. Hunter Thompsons connections to the Bohemian Grove group -Fear and Loathing in Las VEgas

yet you speak as if you have intimate knowledge

Thank you. It's a gift.

Not really. I am just getting wild ideas from the things I read, and I read a lot.
If you saw yourself in something I said - That's terrible.
I wasn't talking about nice people...
So unless you ARE worshiping the devil, you spouted off early - prematurely exacerbated.
It wasn't a personal attack.
Have you written to Dan Brown and complained about your lousy rep in the press?
I mean if you are going to hate someone...there's your guy.

I said that Masons include Illuminati and other secret groups so within Masons, are sub sets of Satan/devil worshipers. These things exist. Maybe this is news to you?
Whenever something is hidden dude, there's room for abuse.
The Church isn't exempt, why would any other secret lodge, order, fraternity, religion, sect or cult be?

I guess it could be misunderstood but I did not call you a Satanist, nor presume to know what you think, mention integrity, or even criticize you for dropping the God part.

Course that last I didn't know, but thanks for sharing such a wealth of personal attributes and information, just a few more questions and I could sign you up to match.com.

If one does not understand the need for Christian education and its teachings, then one cannot understand the complex, yet simple, teachings of Freemasonry, for they are basically the same, Love God, Love thy Neighbor. This, we received at the first, in the third degree when we were received as candidates for the Master Mason degree. The reception was exemplifying the teachings of Jesus when he told the young ruler the second greatest commandment, for the ruler knew the first, Love God!

The Church and the Lodge are partners, with the Lodge being the minor partner. A Lodge can never, or, should never, be used as a substitute for a religious institution. However, the actions of each of us, will reflect on all of us, whether negatively or positively. We are linked together whether we like it or not, and that includes White Masons, Prince Hall Masons and non-Prince Hall Masons, for the general public does not know the difference between us.

11. I have heard that Freemasonry is a religion.
We are not, but it is built upon religious principles, and we embrace ALL religions
12. You do not allow women in the Masons. You are right, for it is a man's fraternity.

It has been said that there are five relationships a man can have with his fellowman:
1. With his father.
2. With his brother.
3. With his son.
4. With his friend.
5. With his ruler.
When a man adheres to the principles of the Star of Fellowship and recognizes that his relationships should be built on righteous living, he will be a fit piece of timer for the celestial Lodge above.

arkphagrandlodge.com...

I have integrity and very strong beliefs too - They do not revolve around a cult. Just sayin'

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by RuneSpider

And how would you defend the innocent and hapless against a small but formidable faction of devil worshipers within this group of ostensibly good and God fearing men?

By defending Freemasonry against them myself, obviously.

What, you mean they're hiding in Freemasonry? Don't be ridiculous.
It's the other side spewing lies,hatred, fear, paranoia... all the things that would make a being like Satan happy to be a part of.

I mean this pussified group of Masons does not have the integrity honesty and guts to make their convictions known. They go to Church. They pretend to be God fearing when they are anything but. Nothing wrong with being an athiest. I don't even care if you want to worship the devil.
Don't try to talk out both sides of your mouth when you are speaking to me though.
If you believe in the devil and practice black magic, say so.

This is not an atheist.
It is still a theist because the devil is a deity.

I am sorry, just exactly who are you? You know exactly *WHAT* about me or any other mason on this board yet you speak as if you have intimate knowledge about what we believe spiritually. I have built my reputation on integrity. I know who I believe in and I know what I don't believe in. While the mantra here is Deny Ignorance, you seem to be very anti-establishment. Here is a tip for you, next time you have a thought, let it go.

edit on Mon Nov 8 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

I think the MOD should have read what you were replying to before throwing in that MOD EDIT on your post here. Unless I misunderstood the reason for the edit or the reply and what you were replying to.

reply to post by wcitizen


perhaps i didnt get it, or perhaps you arnt. list your questions numericaly, up to five please for brevity, and i will try to answer in order.

masons are no more corrupt than any other org. by comparing masonic nepotism with others is not an excuse, but to show that it isnt some wild unheard of thing. what is the difference between a mason hiring a qualified mason over a non-mason, and a veteran hiring a qualified veteran over a non-veteran? none. what about yale grads that hire yale grads over harvard grads? all im saying is that nepotism is a wide and varied thing that accurs everywhere.

i dont know of masons taking unskilled or unqualified labor and hiring them just because they are masons. if they did that, well, that would be just stupid.

i dont know the jobs you go for, but i only have to disclose family members that are employed by the company. any private group, or country club, or church, or college frat im part of is none of the employers business, and cant be asked (unless illegal, or im going for a government job that needs a clearance of some type).

as for secrecy, which seems to stumble most of you, think about a company board room. only board members can attend, and decisions are made out of public view. stock holder meeting are only for stock holders. masonic meetings are for masons only. whats the difference?

the bavarian illuminati are no longer part of the masons. yes they did infiltrate, but they were removed. this is ancient history.

reply to post by ANSPHAR


Crowley joined an irregular and clandestine lodge (from the point of view of the UGLE) in France. He seems to have believed, based on an association with one of the members that he was joining a legit lodge. He tried to have the matter healed, but by then had offended Westcott who prevented Crowley from getting membership in any UGLE lodge.

Crowley then spent considerable time looking for a way into the Fraternity's good graces. Every time he made a leap in, however, he seems to have joined another irregular body. He was *not* an honorary 32nd. He actually joined one of the groups Pike spent his life trying to squish.

Anyway, Crowley: Not a Regular Mason.

I posted in a different thread. If Masons are so evil and out to rule the world, why would our forefathers who were Masons rebel against the crown of England, and give the American people sovereignity and freedom? For an organisation that people claim to want to form a one world government, it's odd that they laid the foundation to this once great nation where they would break away from the English monarchy and be truly free, only to later slowly take it away? It's disinformation from certain royal interests, who were wounded by the hard fought freedom to create dissent towards Masonry; Masonry, again who gave freedom from the English crowns oppression, and yes to be sure, there have been infiltrators. Some bad apples do slip through the cracks. But just because one turns out bad doesnt mean one should blanket the Fraternity as a whole to be bad.

Just like in the threads here on ATS, people ask to provide a source. I ask everyone with claims of world domination plans by Masons to provide the source. If that information is only for "higher ups" of an "inner circle" and not for "lower rank" masons, how is it that non-masons know the secret "agendas" in full detail? And really I imagine the sources for the information is from non masons.

Originally posted by Fenrin
A few contra points I have heard about freemasonry.

A while ago I was interested in freemasonry, but after some research I've lost my interest.
from a user comment on Youtube, who claims that he was a member in a freemasonry loge in Germany:
• freemasonry want to completely monitor us
• they have the power to produce an economic crisis


I also watched a talk of someone who is politician and lawyer from Austria and did a lot of research on freemasonry (German video part 1/8). He has a very strong anti freemasonry attitude and is extremely pro Christian.

A few of his points:
• freemasonry have a huge impact on newspaper publishers and other MSM
• higher rank Freemasons control lower rank Freemasons
• several revenge grades on members exist; the highest possible revenge grade is murder
• murder of Christian politicians in Latin America can be traced back to Freemasons e.g. Moreno who was president of Ecuador
• Freemason loges do absurd rituals with skulls, e.g. spit on the skull
• he claims that obviously every American president was a high rank member of freemasonry. As example for this he mentions Henry Truman; he gained a higher rank when he ordered the nuke bombing on the two Japanese towns Hiroshima and Nagasaki which had the highest share of Christians in Japanese towns; military this two towns were completely insignificant
• service clubs are for recruiting purpose and the people in it are not in the loge, but Freemasons control them to see if they are capable of being Freemason (maybe in the US and other countries it's different or the same

)
• the European Union is full of freemasonry symbolism; the Lisbon treaty doesn't contain a god
• freemasonry accept every highest being of god including Satan
• in the British Army it's allowed to make satanic rituals in protected buildings, because for the freemasonry Satan is a highest being

Of course these are only some of the points of his almost 2 hours speech. I believe this even if he has very strange views on gender equality, homosexuality and even if he's a extremely conservative Christian.

edit on 8-11-2010 by Fenrin because: grammar and spelling

Fenrin,

Are you still a child rapist and a slayer of prostitutes? I watched several video's and have heard countless speechs that compell me to believe so. I was watching the "Fenrin is evil" channel on Youtube.

That many people cant be wrong....can they?

come on. There has been an anti-masonic movement for centuries. Much of it from the Church. The church isn't what Jesus had envisioned. Its more of the Pharisees/Sadducees that He railed against than a school of spiritual learning.

Why else would such an organization be so up in arms over someone looking for "more light"? I'll tell you why.

Roaches like the dark.

Honestly, I in no way think that you are in any way a threat to children or prostitutes. I dont know you. You obviously do not know many Masons either.

In closing, stop being a troll.

Originally posted by ANSPHAR
reply to post by network dude

 

Crowley had the mind of a scientist and a philosopher.

My name is Alister Crowley, which rhymes with Holy,

Though people think me fouly, they call me Alister Crauwley.

We place no reliance upon Virgin or Pigeon,

Our method is Science, Our aim is Religion.

Amen.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by TheLoneArcher

 

And how would you defend the innocent and hapless against a small but formidable faction of devil worshipers within this group of ostensibly good and God fearing men?

one good smack on the forehead with a setting maul out to do it. I heard it worked in the past.

WELL PUT BROTHER!!!

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


I said

"a small but formidable faction of devil worshipers within this group of ostensibly good (and God fearing) men?"

He said

What, you mean they're hiding in Freemasonry?

I said

I mean this pussified group - (this small faction of devil worshipers within) the Masons that
does not have the integrity honesty and guts to make their convictions known.
They go to Church. They pretend to be God fearing when they are anything but.

Clearly I am speaking of a theoretical and reported faction within the Masons that goes to Church for appearances and standing in the community while alternately, secretly worships the devil.
Not talking about any individual here on the site.

So - How is this a personal attack?

Nothing wrong with being an atheist. I don't even care if you want to worship the devil. Don't try to talk out both sides of your mouth when you are speaking to me though. If you believe in the devil and practice black magic, say so.

The word "you" does not mean YOU personally.
Again...speaking of a theoretical Mason that goes to Church for appearances and secretly worships the devil.

I think to claim atheism in a secret society started as a religious club is disingenuous anyway.
I tried - maybe unsuccessfully to say,
you cannot claim to be an atheist if you worship the devil.
Because the devil is a diety.

Again the word "you" does not mean you personally.

Guiseppi Mazzini: Freemason Founder of the Mafia

www.moneyteachers.org...

Read this guys blogs, he knows a LOT about the masons as they've been trying to destroy him for a long time now.

This guys research is SOLID but I'm sure the Masons will tell you it's all lies. Research it for yourself and stay away from secret societies that do their evil deeds in the darkness and make people call them Masters. LOL. Note also please do the research on Albert Pike, Mason hero and know satanist. Run don't walk away from the Masons, they are part of the new world order and you will sell your soul to the devil for joining.

That's why you'll NEVER see one Mason on ATS or anywhere expose anything about the new world order agenda. Research all the people who talk great about the Masons and see if they have any posts against the new world order. None of them will because they serve Lucifer and are part of the new world order agenda!

reply to post by rusethorcain


So are you saying I should beleive the opposite of what I posted? Not quite following your reply, can you elaborate?

reply to post by driley


Would you like to see the certificate of his that was issued making him an honorary 32nd degree mason?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

So are you saying I should beleive the opposite of what I posted? Not quite following your reply, can you elaborate?

I think with you, I copied and repeated the mood you said you are in. Ilumi-naughty. Illuminati are known for breaking ties with established religion. Masons are not known for this but certainly it happens. I am not saying you should believe anything. I say what I think. You think what you want.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
I think to claim atheism in a secret society started as a religious club is disingenuous anyway.

If you are refering to Runespider, he is not a Mason so his Atheistic viewpoint would not be a factor.

I tried - maybe unsuccessfully to say,
you cannot claim to be an atheist if you worship the devil.
Because the devil is a diety.

Are you refering to the Devil of the Judeo-Christian belief systems? If so, who created the Devil? And if the Devil was created by another being how can the Devil be a diety? The Devil's subordinate position to a Creator would automatically exclude that being from a position of being a God if one were to observe a montheistic approach to God and Creation.

reply to post by bodcausailor


Fot the 15th time that I have had to make this comment..
Crowley was writing about Masturbation. Sacrificing a child of knowledge and innocence meant spilling your semen forth without impregnation. He loved getting press. He said things with double meaning as well to keep secrets encoded. It has even been said that the him killing a cat was false as well. He shot a man in India who robbed him though so he did kill someone. It was the early 1900's. Many Christians have killed people too. Crowley did NOT believe in Satan or condone "black"magick. "do what thou wilt is the whole of the law... Love is the law,love under will... Every man and woman is a star" Where do you get "Worship some christian concept of evil used to manipulate the masses through fear aka the devil out of a message of follow your heart and will?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


So my grandfather on my moms side was a freemason in Ecuador he asked my father to join before he died but my father did not want to shortly after that he lost his entire fortune...

I never really understood what was going on

Whatever you do please don't eat the BBQ that we sell! We spike the BBQ with mind control drugs. All that money we collect really does not go to feed people or provide care for people that could not normally afford care either. We use the money to buy off high level political leaders to make sure that we meet our 2012 deadline when it comes to total world domination! After 2012 we hope to harvest all the souls and give them to Satan so we can get in our space ships and fly off to another galaxy where we can take control over that planet as well. One day we will take over everything and control every aspect of everything everywhere! We don't want any transparent in any way because then you could tell we are all really reptilians that plan to finish our huge underground bunkers.

Maybe I need to stop eating all that food at the meetings. I guess people just fear the unknown.

On the other hand their is secrecy in Freemasonry just like in every other fraternity in the world. I am sure corruption exists in the organisation at one level or another but being a free man that joined on my own accord I can simply leave and move on. You can talk to your brothers about anything in a lodge. Will they listen? Yes. Will they act? Yes. Will you like the result? Who knows?

I could be sitting across from the President of the United States in a lodge and we are nothing but equals. It is nothing more then a fraternity of men. Somebody you can depend on in a time of need. When the world kicks you in the groin you know you have a place to go where plenty of your brothers will be more then glad to help you out and get you back on your feet.

Oh noes I have said too much.


EDIT: Oh I forgot to add, "Resistance is Futile"

Originally posted by Saurus
I am a freemason with an interest in the occult.

However, as with LoneArcher, if I ever came across anything in that were contrary to the morals and values taught in the Holy Books (of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, which, in my opinion, all teach the same values), or if there was anything that I would be ashamed to tell my parents, children or wife, I would resign without hesitation.

edit on 8/11/2010 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

My grandfather was a 32nd degree mason of the Sccotish rite. He resigned before completing the rite to become 33rd degree.

So I can understand this statement. I never learned much about Freemasonry until he was on his deathbed. And he didn't really say much. Just something about hypocrisy was the major reason, but that was all I was told. Who knows what else that involved. Also these things may be totally unrelated, or may be connected, but right before he he quit the freemasons my uncle was murdered, and also my grandfather was very deep into the occult before he quit freemasonry.

I am not making any speculations or revealing heresay. All of this is fact. Beyond it I know not.