Global Warming is not only NOT a hoax, but it is about 10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare.

reply to post by The_Liberator


You're underestimating the power of faith. That's the ONLY thing keeping the Earth alive right now. It is 'magickal thinking', but it keeps a world alive. God will not let a world with so many devout believers die. It's as simple as that. Go look up the book 'Hidden Messages in Water" by Mesaru Emato to know just what I mean. It basically says that thought DIRECTLY affects the environment. If you tape the words 'love and gratitude' to a bottle of water over night, the water crystals will develop beautifully. If you tape the words 'hatred' or 'discord' they won't develop at all. In fact, they'll mutate.

The higher forces of the Earth, in other words, the God and all the other Gods under his command are doing everything to keep the planet functioning while the Earth's 'Green Movement' restores the planet's lost beauty. And with advances in cloning technology, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. I know for a fact that global warming is VERY real. I'm an environmentalist. The only threat to the Earth is if everyone stops believing in some higher deity. To the OP, you know good and well that the Earth is WAY past dead. So don't sweat it because there is a force that will not let us perish as long as we still believe in it.

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by The_Liberator

 

I think you are misinterpreting what many are saying. The vast vast majority of people are not saying that Global Warming or climate change is a hoax, they are saying that its not man-made.

And I am saying that it is man made and that 97% of climate scientists agree with me. The 3% that don't agree include people like Richard Lindzen who distort and cherry-pick.

I'm talking about the people responding to you on ATS. The debate seems to be whether or not the climate change is man-made, or normal and cyclical for the Earth. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. At this point is all scientific theory and not law about what's really going on. Its far from settled science on either side of the debate

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by The_Liberator

 

I think you are misinterpreting what many are saying. The vast vast majority of people are not saying that Global Warming or climate change is a hoax, they are saying that its not man-made.

And I am saying that it is man made and that 97% of climate scientists agree with me. The 3% that don't agree include people like Richard Lindzen who distort and cherry-pick.

I'm talking about the people responding to you on ATS. The debate seems to be whether or not the climate change is man-made, or normal and cyclical for the Earth. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. At this point is all scientific theory and not law about what's really going on. Its far from settled science on either side of the debate

If you look into it, you will see that in fact the science is settled. There is no question about what is going on.

And yes it's a theory, but so is evolution, gravity, and relativity.

Greetings, The_Liberator,

Isn't the correct term, man-made global warming? Politically correct term? Didn't "the esteemed" Al Gore determine that US citizens are at fault for causing it?

What about China? Don't they produce more pollutants in 1 day than the US produces in a year or more? What about India's airborne pollution? What about barry soetoro's home country - Indonesia, the country he immigrated to? Specifically, what about the land clearings and burnings they do?

If US citizens have to be blamed, why not focus on Walmart shoppers who buy from air-polluter, China?

Seems that if man-made global warming, or man-made climate change isn't real now, it will become real as the clearing of the Amazon jungle reaches a critical point.

Why don't you and Al Gore go to Brazil and brow-beat the political leadership and the CEOs of the logging companies? Well that wouldn't advance the new Cap and Tax law that Cass Sunstein, Bill Reid, George Soros and Van Jones want to shove down our collective throats, would it?

Is the demise of the Amazon Jungle off limits when discussing man-made climate change?

Does political correctness have to trump reality?

Man-made global pollution reality comes from
China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and Van Jones' Cap and Tax law will punish US citizens and allow the problem to fester and worsen.

Let's say for a moment that you are right (I'm not saying you are), so the solution is what? More taxes? Really? Al Bore's plan of trading "carbon credits" so he and his cronies can get stupid rich by picking our pockets? Meanwhile, how does trading in yet another fake currency alter the alleged Siberian permafrost melting? It doesn't. It's a scam to make certain people filthy rich by taking money from certain other people.

I think you (and people like you) should stop concentrating so much on the pseudoscience of it and put your effort into the destructive politics of it. We're getting bent over and taxed up ye olde asse yet again, and the earth really doesn't give a crap whether it is a little hotter or a little colder this year or last year or next year.

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by The_Liberator

 

I think you are misinterpreting what many are saying. The vast vast majority of people are not saying that Global Warming or climate change is a hoax, they are saying that its not man-made.

And I am saying that it is man made and that 97% of climate scientists agree with me. The 3% that don't agree include people like Richard Lindzen who distort and cherry-pick.

I'm talking about the people responding to you on ATS. The debate seems to be whether or not the climate change is man-made, or normal and cyclical for the Earth. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. At this point is all scientific theory and not law about what's really going on. Its far from settled science on either side of the debate

If you look into it, you will see that in fact the science is settled. There is no question about what is going on.

And yes it's a theory, but so is evolution, gravity, and relativity.

Not quite true. Gravity is a law now, while evolution and relativity are theories. This science is far from settled. Everything at this point is observed data of various types, and the correlations and assumptions on causes. However, given that climate models have proven wrong time and again, its far from understood. Human's do not understand the earth or even most science or physics at this point. Fast forward a hundred years, and those scientists will look at the scientists of our times as primitive. And so will the scientists a hundred years from then. And so on, and so on. The earth is so complex and ever changing that we are at best thousands of years away from having even scratched the surface of understanding it.

Originally posted by Adonsa
Greetings, The_Liberator,

Isn't the correct term, man-made global warming? Politically correct term? Didn't "the esteemed" Al Gore determine that US citizens are at fault for causing it?

What about China? Don't they produce more pollutants in 1 day than the US produces in a year or more? What about India's airborne pollution? What about barry soetoro's home country - Indonesia, the country he immigrated to? Specifically, what about the land clearings and burnings they do?

If US citizens have to be blamed, why not focus on Walmart shoppers who buy from air-polluter, China?

Seems that if man-made global warming, or man-made climate change isn't real now, it will become real as the clearing of the Amazon jungle reaches a critical point.

Why don't you and Al Gore go to Brazil and brow-beat the political leadership and the CEOs of the logging companies? Well that wouldn't advance the new Cap and Tax law that Cass Sunstein, Bill Reid, George Soros and Van Jones want to shove down our collective throats, would it?

Is the demise of the Amazon Jungle off limits when discussing man-made climate change?

Does political correctness have to trump reality?

Man-made global pollution reality comes from
China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and Van Jones' Cap and Tax law will punish US citizens and allow the problem to fester and worsen.

I never said the US was to blame....the human race is to blame.

I am guessing from your post that global warming does not fit with your conservative philosophy of less govt/less taxes, therefore it should be ignored.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Let's say for a moment that you are right (I'm not saying you are), so the solution is what? More taxes? Really? Al Bore's plan of trading "carbon credits" so he and his cronies can get stupid rich by picking our pockets? Meanwhile, how does trading in yet another fake currency alter the alleged Siberian permafrost melting? It doesn't. It's a scam to make certain people filthy rich by taking money from certain other people.

I think you (and people like you) should stop concentrating so much on the pseudoscience of it and put your effort into the destructive politics of it. We're getting bent over and taxed up ye olde asse yet again, and the earth really doesn't give a crap whether it is a little hotter or a little colder this year or last year or next year.

There is nothing we can do about it at this point. It's already game over I'm afraid.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by The_Liberator

 

I think you are misinterpreting what many are saying. The vast vast majority of people are not saying that Global Warming or climate change is a hoax, they are saying that its not man-made.

And I am saying that it is man made and that 97% of climate scientists agree with me. The 3% that don't agree include people like Richard Lindzen who distort and cherry-pick.

I'm talking about the people responding to you on ATS. The debate seems to be whether or not the climate change is man-made, or normal and cyclical for the Earth. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. At this point is all scientific theory and not law about what's really going on. Its far from settled science on either side of the debate

If you look into it, you will see that in fact the science is settled. There is no question about what is going on.

And yes it's a theory, but so is evolution, gravity, and relativity.

Not quite true. Gravity is a law now, while evolution and relativity are theories. This science is far from settled. Everything at this point is observed data or various types, and the correlations and assumptions on causes. However, given that climate models have proven wrong time and again, its far from understood. Human's do not understand the earth or even most science or physics at this point. Fast forward a hundred years, and those scientists will look at the scientists of our times as primitive. And so will the scientists a hundred years from then. And so on, and so on. The earth is so complex and ever changing that we are at best thousands of years away from having even scratched the surface of understanding it.

It is a law of gravity that if you drop an object here, it will fall to the ground, but it is Gravitational Theory that explains how and why this occurs.

(copied from answerbag)

Climate science is more accurate than you think. In the 70's they exactly predicted that temps would rise by .6 degrees by 2000 on current emissions paths...and that was with primitive computers.

If anything, the only way they are wrong is that they tend to underestimate the situation because they don't account for the myriad positive feedbacks that exist that make things much worst (such as the albedo of melting ice or the methane from the ESAS, or the fact that the ocean absorbs less CO2 as it warms and becomes saturated)

If you really want to be worried about climate change, take comfort in the fact that the Earth actually spends more time in frigid ice age conditions than warm periods. the current warming period of the last 18,000 yrs has been a god send to humanity.

It is well know we are in a interglacial period. Try adapting to sub zero conditions, humans as a whole are better at adaption in interglacial periods than in ice age ones.

Global climate cycles of warming and cooling have been a natural phenomena for hundreds of thousands of years, and it is unlikely that these cycles of dramatic climate change will stop any time soon. We currently enjoy a warm Earth. Will this state of the planet continue NO the reality is we will head into another glacial period GUARANTEED.

Our planet has mostly been much hotter and more humid than we know it to be today. Millions of species of animals, plants etc have just got on fine with CO2 in the range of 2000 to 5000 ppm without any problems.

To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today– 4400 ppm.

Simple question to be answered if CO2 goes up before temp rises.

1: During the Ordovician Period average temps were 12 degrees Celsius or less (today's avg is about 12C) but CO2 levels were about 4000 ppm but yet today we are about 380 ppm and avg temp of 12 degrees Celsius?

Hold on WTF how can an Ice Age have cooling temps but rising CO2....
According to basic 101 greenhouse theory the earth should have been hot as hell not a freezing cold ice age.

When you and your pro Global Warming mates can answer this one tiny little fly in the ointment. Then yes I will believe that we as human have absolute control over this planet.

Greetings, The_Liberator

am guessing from your post that global warming does not fit with your conservative philosophy of less govt/less taxes, therefore it should be ignored.

Sir, the problem is real or it's going to become real with the destruction of the Amazon Jungle! At least, go to Brazil, or send Al Gore, to enlighten their leadership. Vast amounts of the jungle are systemically destroyed, transformed into farm land, farmed for 1 year, then it becomes arid desert. Then more jungle is destroyed, and the cycle repeats. The jungle cannot be reinstated, once destroyed. The Amazon Jungle is so massive it keeps the air composition in balance. What I'm [unsuccessfully] trying to get across is to go to the problem, not punish those who have already been mitigating air pollution. The problem is in Brazil, China, India and other offending countries like Indonesia. Time would be better spent enlightening Brazilian leadership than finding ways to punish US citizens (obama's plan for us).

On second thought, send somebody smart to talk to the Brazilians, Al Gore would blame the US no matter who he talks to. Blaming everyone, or, as Al Gore does, blaming US citizens, won't stop man-made climate change, it will only further obama's bosses' (Bill Reid and Van Jones) destructive political agendas.

Originally posted by The_Liberator
You can believe that Al Gore took on the cause of MMGW to get rich, but I believe he did it because he is empathetic and caring and terrified. I know you disagree, but that is what I believe.

I disagree as well. He said we should be afraid of costal flooding and must purchase flood insurance, meanwhile he bought a huge villa on the shore. He isn’t just doing it to get rich. He’s doing it for NWO as it’s their Nazi agenda. NWO openly state they want to reduce population. Here come the “overpopulation” idea. Right on time.

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by favouriteslave
OP!

CO2 rise lags by at least 800 yrs! First temps rise then CO rises after. Trying to explain that our present demise is man made flies out the window.

CO2 Levels have been higher in the distant past than they are now. It was a natural cycle of earth splitting, spewing just as it is now

www.skepticalscience.com...

We are in an interglacial soon to be in a glacial period

We have been in a cooling trend for 12 yrs. This is climate change. Temps will be sporadic all over the world until the big chill comes.

www.c3headlines.com...

edit on 2-11-2010 by favouriteslave because: added link

As for your claim about CO2 lagging temperature: www.skepticalscience.com...

As for your assertion that we are in a cooling trend, that is false. The last decade was the hottest on record, followed by the 90's then the 80's.

And did you know that during the mid eval warming period it was warmer than it is now? That is what is attributed to the "Renaissance Period" where things flourished.

reply to post by The_Liberator

There are 2 subjects on which I consider myself a bona fide expert: UFO’s and global warming.

Well, in that case, I guess I'd have to know where you stand on the subject of UFOs...

reply to post by The_Liberator


Well it actually hasn't been accurate. Temperature and weather models have been drastically off. The last 2 years alone have been the worst models, with the famous predictions of the worse winters and worst hurricane seasons in generations and then nothing......

As far as settled science, sorry my friend it really is far from it:

Man-made global warming/ man-made climate change is not settled science. 31,487 American scientists, 9,029 who hold PHDs, have signed a petition, that reads in part: There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide methane or other green house gases is causing or will cause, in the foreseeable future, catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmosphere carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments on earth.

Leading scientist proponents of man-made climate change were caught recently exchanging e-mails exposing the fact that they had been less than honest with climate change data in order to “make” the data agree with their “settled science.”

LINK

Now I know you're going to say they were cleared by an independent investigation, but it wasn't independent at all.
Not independent

However, the science is not settled. Many renowned climatologists strongly disagree with the IPCC’s conclusions about the cause and potential magnitude of Global Warming. More than 20,000 scientists have now signed the Oregon Petition which criticises it as ‘flawed’ research and states that “any human contribution to climate change has not yet been demonstrated.” Dr Chris Landsea resigned from the IPCC because he “personally could not in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound.”

The IPCC claims that more than 2,500 respected scientists and policy makers collaborate to write its climate change assessments but less than a tenth of these ‘experts’ actually hold qualifications in climatology, most were in fact educated in the political and social sciences. The panel that edits and approves the reports are appointed by the United Nations, and more than half are actually UN officials. Dr Richard Lindzen, who is a genuine climate expert, resigned from the IPCC process after his contributions were completely rewritten by the panel.

"It's not 2,500 people offering their consensus, I participated in that. Each person who is an author writes one or two pages in conjunction with someone else. They travel around the world several times a year for several years to write it and the summary for policymakers has the input of a handful of scientists, but ultimately, it is written by representatives of governments, and of environmental organizations, each pushing their own agenda." - MIT's Professor of Atmospheric Science Dr. Richard Lindzen on the IPCC report.

Proclaiming that “climate change is real” is a nonsensical statement and ignores the Earth’s continual natural warming and cooling cycles. Vikings settled in Greenland and raised crops and cattle 1000 years ago, while Britons grew grapes in England. Four hundred years later, Greenland froze and the Vikings starved. Europe was gripped in a Little Ice Age. The Thames froze all the way up to London. Another surge in temperatures saw widespread global droughts in the mid-1600s. Temperatures plunged again around 1700’s. The globe warmed in 1800-1940, cooled for the next 35 years, then warmed again. The 1940-1975 cooling period occurred despite the fact that industrial production and release of CO2 vastly accelerated during this time. This led to political and media scaremongering about Global Cooling, and the threat of a new ice age.

Again, this arose out of a misunderstanding of long term temperature fluctuations. Scientists have discovered that the sun not only has a regular 11 year cycle of sunspot activity. They have now discovered a significant 200 year cycle. Sunspot and solar radiation activity almost exactly parallel temperature changes on the Earth. It correlates well with the anomalous post-war temperature dip, when global carbon dioxide levels were rising very fast. The increase in solar radiation prevents the formation of clouds, which have a cooling effect on the planet, therefore the temperature rises.

Apart from ignoring the giant ball of fire in the sky, Global Warming alarmists also overlook a few other inconvenient truths. They ignore the fact the natural emissions of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere far exceed human contributions. In fact humans contribute a measly 0.035% of the total annual carbon flux. Any system that can be perturbed by such a tiny fluctuation would be very unstable indeed. They also ignore the fact that water vapour is by far the most dominant greenhouse gas. The atmosphere consists of 40,000 ppm of water vapour, whereas carbon dioxide weighs in at a miniscule 380 ppm. Instead they rely on dubious computer models that the IPCC itself admits exclude complex parts of the climate system that they don’t yet understand.

Great read

Problems with accuracy of data due to how temperature is measured:

If you want to understand why the controversy over global warming won’t go away, forget combing through hundreds of hacked emails or trying to understand the enormously complex computer climate models that spit out predictions of our future doom. Instead, just check out the Marysville, California, temperature monitoring station that NASA and other climate researchers use to track temperature trends. The problems with the Marysville station represent in microcosm why the supposedly “settled” issue of climate change has become so unsettled in the last few months.

The Marysville temperature station is located at the city’s fire department, next to an asphalt parking lot and a cell phone tower, and only a few feet away from two air conditioning compressors that spew out considerable heat. These sources of heat amplification mean that the temperature readings from the Marysville station are useless for determining accurate temperatures for the Marysville area.

Indeed, the Marysville station violates the quality control standards of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). NOAA admits that stations like Marysville, sited close to artificial heat sources such as parking lots, can produce errors as large as 5 degrees Celsius. That is not the only shortcoming of the Marysville data; it turns out that daily data were missing for as many as half the days of any given month. Either the device failed to self-record, or no one recorded the daily data as procedure requires. NASA simply filled in the gaps in the data by “interpolating.”

Link

Look my friend, you are obviously a smart person. But what you need to realize is that data and stats are easily manipulated. Anyone can make a study aimed at proving or disproving anything and find data to support it. You can view a documentary, but they also set out to prove or disprove a certain point. According to you, 97% of climate scientists say global warming is man-made. But the flip side of this means that the research you did was hardly unbiased or independent. You basically did a ridiculous amount of research (which is great), but it was done by a bunch of scientist who have made entire careers based on their opinions and know that regardless of the truth, it won't be known in their lifetime. I'm not saying which side is correct. I'm just saying this entire thing has taken on a political nature, and that is also the case within the scientific community (which is tragic). Try to keep an open mind and not so doom and gloom. Either way, a human life is short viewed from the lens of the earth. If you're right, the earth will correct the problems on its own and human life may or may not survive. If you are wrong, the earth will still heat and cool and humanity will have to adapt to it. Either way, the science and debate is not settled, and both sides agree with that.

What's saddest to see is that the fossil fuel industry's propaganda has worked on so many of you...

Talk about lemmings.

I too have researched global warming much much further than most people, and I've given EVERY SINGLE AGW DENIAL ARGUMENT A CHANCE. I really did... and ya know what? Essentially ALL of them proved to be wrong and/or plain ignorant. After going deeper down the rabbit hole than probably most of you... the Theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming has only been strengthened in my mind.

The scientific debate ended decades ago, then a couple decades after that, the fossil fuel industry put out SERIOUS money, disinformation, propaganda, and political/media takeovers to convince people that there was a giant conspiracy. So essentially what happened is TPTB made you think that you are fighting them by denying global warming when you're actually playing right into their plutocrat hands. The fossil fuel industry is the WEALTHIEST INDUSTRY EVER TO EXIST ON PLANET EARTH, and for the world to take global warming seriously it would entail SERIOUS cuts to industry profits and their reign over our governments/planet. Do you really think they're gonna play nice? No. Here is the reality:

READ THESE NOW

www.greenpeace.org...

www.greenpeace.org...

www.ucsusa.org...

www.pbs.org...

www.grist.org...

www.skepticalscience.com...

climateprogress.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's funny......after two years of exhaustive googling, ive come to the conclusion that......ha ha....Google anything and in the top three returns will be a wikipedia link.....because they pay to be there...Clinking a link does not make you a scholar or scientist...You must have left a huge carbon footprint.

reply to post by lavenlaar

Why not just plant pot - yes, that's right- marijuana ?

It grows well in northen climate (some canadians I know manage to grow hemp as big as trees - in a summer!)
You can can make oil from it, fabric, all kinds of stuff....

It is greener if you don't smoke it, but that's another story.

Also, in my mind, if we're toasted as some may say, the solution doesn't need to be a money making opportunity, but a be a real revolution, with guillotines.
It ask for a new money system, one that won't take us where we are now.
I don't think the changes needed to save the human race are from the people, but from the system.
The system won't change? Change the system.

And let's raid area 51 and open the back store to see what they have been holding from us to keep that old system alive...

We would certainly have hope restored then.

Originally posted by favouriteslave

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by favouriteslave
OP!

CO2 rise lags by at least 800 yrs! First temps rise then CO rises after. Trying to explain that our present demise is man made flies out the window.

CO2 Levels have been higher in the distant past than they are now. It was a natural cycle of earth splitting, spewing just as it is now

www.skepticalscience.com...

We are in an interglacial soon to be in a glacial period

We have been in a cooling trend for 12 yrs. This is climate change. Temps will be sporadic all over the world until the big chill comes.

www.c3headlines.com...

edit on 2-11-2010 by favouriteslave because: added link

As for your claim about CO2 lagging temperature: www.skepticalscience.com...

As for your assertion that we are in a cooling trend, that is false. The last decade was the hottest on record, followed by the 90's then the 80's.

And did you know that during the mid eval warming period it was warmer than it is now? That is what is attributed to the "Renaissance Period" where things flourished.

The "Medieval Warming Period" was regional to Northern/Western Europe and was not global.

Okay, when you look at global warming videos, literature, and facts its all so convincing and makes sense. Then you look at the scientists that are trying to disprove this fact also have a very convincing array of facts. It seems to me that global warming is just a battle of the "eco-scientists" and supporters, all who have hard evidence of their statements. Not saying that the mere thought of this assumption isn't scary, you just have to believe what you want to believe.