ANOTHER POSSIBLE way of deciphering the message from Cassini/Saturn 2004?

reply to post by ch1n1t0


Sorry, symmetry is not out of the ordinary if the recording was done by an analog to digital converter running at a sampling rate of precisely the point at which the center of symmetry begins, and if the input signal was unfiltered prior to sampling. This phenomenon is called Aliasing.

en.wikipedia.org...

-rrr

i doubt the symetry is caused by an echo.....

i shall try to explain my theory, although i am no sound specialist, i believe my line of thinking would be correct.

imagine the central line of symetry along the timeline as the datum line. a frequency dropping lower, would not have an echo of a frequency going higher.
imagine yourself in a large cave. if you let out a long pitch, dropping in tone, the echo you recieve back will not be a raising tone, which is what would be needed in this case for the symetry to be created by the echo.
also, would the echo not be out of time with the original signal? even by just a little bit. if we are talking about a signal being bounced around, that would take time, no matter how small, so there would be a slight shift in the symetry, so it wouldnt be perfect.
if this was an echo, and with a small delay, then the resulting image "should" in theory, be something like this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0266084d5951.jpg[/atsimg]

to better try and explain by image what is happening with the symetry, try to imagine the frequency as an audiable note. lets take a piano as an example. you play 10 series of notes with your left hand and your right hand. both moving away from a symetrical line in the middle of the keys. the result would be lowering tones, and a symetry of tones going higher.
you would get an image result like this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3b7c5bed4b4a.jpg[/atsimg]
green line is the line of symetry, and the blue marks are keys played.
remember the notes are used as an example of different frequency.

this then shows that the original images in the first post cannot be echoes, and have no delay.
think this explains it, and please correct me if i am wrong.
trying to understand all this in my head, and hoping i have it right lol.

thanks again for such an interesting topic

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by ch1n1t0

 

Sorry, symmetry is not out of the ordinary if the recording was done by an analog to digital converter running at a sampling rate of precisely the point at which the center of symmetry begins, and if the input signal was unfiltered prior to sampling. This phenomenon is called Aliasing.

en.wikipedia.org...

-rrr

I need to make a correction, the center of symmetry due to signal aliasing occurs at 1/2 the sampling rate of the ADC conversion.

Just scroll down on that wikipedia article to the section about "Folding"

-rrr

reply to post by ch1n1t0


So sorry, i did read that thread. I have a little experience in sound editing myself, not in spectrography however, although iv messed around with it many years ago in the days of aphex twin and acen etc.

I know Ableton and FL are intended for music production and although i use other software for this kind of thing, i know these must have some kind of post effects, if anything compression to balance out frequencies and amplitude for a good production. I havent got ableton or FL so cant compare as a benchmark.

Can you see anything i have done wrong to not get the same results as you? I use audacity (because its free and just a sample editor) to change pitch. however, i dont think its imperative to change the pitch, you should see symetry regardless of pitch right?

Thanks for you time, and i hope i can get the same results as you!!

reply to post by rickyrrr


I'll go a step further:

If the place you obtained the file was not the original wave files from the Cassini mission, then they could have been resampled, and in this process become aliased, resulting in the symmetry.

I am willing to bet that many youtube videos with very crappy sound quality are likely aliased, and as a result will have symmetrical spectrograms.

-rrr

reply to post by rickyrrr


Here... this one sound a little symmetrical to my ears (aliased) try to get a spectrogram from this video:

www.youtube.com...

-rrr

reply to post by rickyrrr


This IS what could be considered the closest to original ever possible source out there - the one taken from the Cassini website! You can find it for yourself, let me dig a link for you...

However, I'm currently reading regarding your explanation with Aliasing and considering the possibility, will get back to you when I'm done!

EDIT - Here's the link cassini.physics.uiowa.edu... , do your research when stating this trying to act as you've suddenly won over something lol And I am interested in your theory in the first place and am currently checking that possibility to rule it out.


EDIT 2 - I didn't mean to say that, what I meant that I'm checking your theory cause it sounds plaussible. I just automatically used the rule out expression, hope you didn't mistunderstand!

look at it in sections and overlap the images. Put the very top part that looks like a face inside the section below it that looks like the outside are of the face. It looks to me like the sections could all over lap. like if you were looking into a spiral it would appear to look flat. If it were a sound wave coming at us should we not look at as such???

I posted this link on Unexplained-Mystery but i got insta-trolled lol, they dont even read this post and they think we are making picture out of Clouds , etc.

Here is the link:
www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

i think what rickyrrr says about Aliasing has put the hammer on the head, your using realtime software to produce your spectrograph... your resampling the original sound which is then subject to Aliasing, you can google FL + Aliasing and there are interesting results.
You need to use a basic sample editor to change pitch (which i think is unessary anyway), and i think youle find what i have found from the start. there is no symetry, just a product of the software your using.

cheers anyway.

reply to post by ch1n1t0


I did the test on the youtube video and found a region of symmetry extending from 10 to 13k, so it's not perfectly symmetric but has some symmetry.

When I investigate the Cassini waveform what I will try to do is find what the centerpoint is. From there we can ask the question, could this center of symmetry correspond to a popular sampling rate, or can we find out what the cassini audio sampling rate was in the first place, if we have a match then that would resolve the matter. otherwise we still would have an unanswered question.

-rrr

reply to post by pyrolwin


I can see their point to a certain degree... however it is kind of weird that there is a humanoid shape within the sound. Saying that the same could be said about the "Face of Mars", that (allegedly) is nothing more than a trick of the camera.

We kind of see what our minds want us to, or we come across a completely obtuse and coincidental appearence of something "alien".

Never the less, this topic certain sent chills up my spine!

reply to post by doorhand


even if it is not doubled in this way what if you over lap the half image and it makes half a face still weird right?? We have to look into the image not at it from the side view. try that out if possible. Overlap sections to make one image??? 2 cents

reply to post by doorhand


What hammer mate?!? What HEAD?!?! I'm looking for an explanation. A real explanation. Such as the one provided. But we're not final, yet. And there's no hammer. I'm just looking for answers as this, the very least will have a positive outcome of me finding out new things.

Also, mate. I wrote 10 thousand times that I've also used Spectrogram Version 16 which is a totally different software, which doesn't do it in realtime! It used the EXPORTED wave file from FL Studio after being pitched up!!! FFS, with this attitude you're making afool of yourself! Also, I said 10 thousand times that I've went through the same in Ableton Live. Read the f*n thread, rather than trolling your opinion into it like you've won a fight never fought.

And i'm still looking forward to the investigation rrr is doing...

just been zooming in, and found a message.
not sure what it could mean.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/12334af5f853.jpg[/atsimg]

apologies, but it was just too tempting

reply to post by ch1n1t0


I ran into a problem, I find that the recording for Eerie sounds is shown next to a graph that extends to 80khz. The sounds themselves are bandlimited (to my ears) to what I would guess is 8k. Clearly the audio file can't extend to 80k, because I could not play it back if it was. No aliasing to my ears in that recording. (anybody can hear aliasing once you know what to look for, it is the sound of children toys, a glimmer of high frequency, a fuzzy or crispy sound, quite literally, stair steps on the waveform.

So my guess is that fruity loops aliased the sound, but I have a problem proving that. I only have ableton live at my disposal. I know live has settings for resampling quality and that at the lowest quality it uses linear resampling, which will contain a little aliasing, but not too much.

You could try importing a wave that is only 8k into fruity (generated with sound forge, or something else) and then see if it aliases as it resamples to the full range of the project.

I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything, but the waveform was immediately recognizable, that is why I spoke with such confidence, I have seen spectrograms like that before.

I once designed a VST plugin that was meant to produce aliasing (to emulate the sound of classic samplers), which is why I am familiar with this.

-rrr

reply to post by rickyrrr


I have a question, could the fact I've sent the file through a DAW such as Ableton or FL Studio and then exported, after pitching up, be relevant to changes in sample rate?

I have worked both in 44,100 using my internal sound card, and 48,000 using my external, as I tried this, if that would help you,..

reply to post by rickyrrr


Great, well, I've used Ableton and pitched the sound 24 semis up. Then exported it. Then I've ran it through Spectrogram Ver 16, and again, the same result.

You can do the same with the original file that you can download from the Cassini website and see what comes out?


EDIT - just to be sure - THIS SOUND - cassini.physics.uiowa.edu...

Originally posted by doorhand
i think what rickyrrr says about Aliasing has put the hammer on the head, your using realtime software to produce your spectrograph... your resampling the original sound which is then subject to Aliasing, you can google FL + Aliasing and there are interesting results.
You need to use a basic sample editor to change pitch (which i think is unessary anyway), and i think youle find what i have found from the start. there is no symetry, just a product of the software your using.

cheers anyway.

edit on 28-10-2010 by doorhand because: html screw up, somehow

Please Doorhand , stop trolling without doing any serious analysis, while others are helping out each other. You are not helping anything. If you trying to prove OP is wrong just do some serious analysis and come up withsomething. Else please shut up or troll somewhere else.

Gosh I am glad that not all Skeptic-so-called-debunkers are not like him

Originally posted by SchoolProject
reply to post by pyrolwin

 

I can see their point to a certain degree... however it is kind of weird that there is a humanoid shape within the sound. Saying that the same could be said about the "Face of Mars", that (allegedly) is nothing more than a trick of the camera.

We kind of see what our minds want us to, or we come across a completely obtuse and coincidental appearence of something "alien".

Never the less, this topic certain sent chills up my spine!

Yeah mate , the point here is OP is an Experienced one who tried many kind of different sounds and never seen such symmetry,not about the shapes.

Such symmetry , may have 75% chance that is done by Intelligent being Delibrately.