Abortion is morally WRONG

reply to post by Xiamara

ever wonder why you believe one mans word over another?

with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you

The LORD gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.

from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth.

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

Therefore still having one son, his beloved, he also sent him to them last, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But those vinedressers said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’

The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

reply to post by Rustami


I believe one over another if they present evidence you have not presented concrete evidence just scripture, and claim God communes with you. He may commune with you but I cannot believe it. You Can tell god to speak with me so if you choose to prove that to me I shall sit at my computer and wait for my message from God.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Traydor
can a woman really claim that the baby is her body?

...yes - because, technically, a fetus is a parasite...

Originally posted by Traydor
considering the child has got half the husband's DNA shouldn't he have a say?

...if she cares about him, she might take his opinion under consideration while making her decision but thats entirely her choice...

...lets not forget the reality that the reaction of many males is "abort it" or "i dont want it" or "it aint mine"...

Originally posted by Traydor
so many factors that can come into play where they would actually shift the boundaries of morality.

...but there are no boundaries of morality except the ones you adhere to yourself...

Originally posted by Traydor
i would personally would like a woman to make alternative options (give birth to the baby and give it up for adoption)

...so, giving away an infant to a business that will sell it like livestock (complete with a contract thats no different than those used to sell cars or furniture) is a good thing or, at least, preferable to abortion... i think thats obscene - but - its an excellent example of how one person's concept of morality is considered immoral by someone else...

Originally posted by Traydor
but in the end we can't make people do what they don't want to do. People have to make choices in their lives and live with the consequences.

...exactly...

Originally posted by Traydor
From my point of view if my wife had an abortion with my child i would end the relationship as i would want my own child to have a chance at life

...what if it wasnt yours?... what if it was due to being raped and she decided to keep it?... would you still leave her?... if not, could you raise that child without prejudice?...

Thank you for your response, you said alot of intelligent things that has got me thinking. I want to repond to your last comment about what if the child was not mine? I would completely support my wife if this happened. If the pregnancy happened because of rape i would not be so cold hearted as to leave her or if it happened if she had an affair i would support her if she felt the affair/pregnancy was a mistake and still wanted to be with me. You see, i would never hold anything against the baby simply because it is an innocent. I can say this from the bottom of my heart.

Originally posted by Xiamara
GIVE me stats hard core stats showing who gets more abortions women raped and with cause or women who don't want children... My bet is you found some but they didn't support your argument...

Your bet lost.

I have no idea how many women have abortions because of rape.

Strangely enough, searching for rape statistics on google, is not really what I do on my average Sunday evening.


Anyway, it's irrelevant, because if 85% of abortions occur because of rapes, then that wouldn't change my view of the majority of the other 15%.

Originally posted by Xiamara
Also so what if they get an abortion if they can live with it then good on them.. Why should you care its not you who had the abortion and until you go through child birth you cannot say it is for no cause.

Again, this argument is ridiculous; what if I murder someone down the road ? If I can live with it, then good on me, eh ?

Why should you care ? It's not you that murdered this person.

Originally posted by Xiamara
If the woman feels she cannot raise a child or is not okay with adoption then she has every right to have an abortion

Just to clarify: if I, hypothetically, feel that I cannot handle my nextdoor neighbour's loud music, then I am fully justified to kill them ?

After all, if I'm incapable of handling such a scenario, then I have every right to kill the person that stands between my personal discomfort and my happiness, don't I ?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes



Difference is between murder and abortion is why. Take murder there is random unjustified murder but what about self defense or manslaughter. Most murderers have a reason unless they have psychosis, even then there is reason it may not be a good one but there is reason. Same with abortion, it may not be a reason you agree with but someone does.

So yes you can go kill your neighbours for loud music, its a reason and a moral and its a bit different since your not having bodily harm like pregnancy. Its just irritation. Murder technically is a social construct. Animals "murder" their own species. I don't agree with murder unless you are sustaining direct harm via the person, which is self defense. Which is abortion you feel as though you will harm or be harmed by the unborn child. Until you are in that situation, which you never will be, you have no right to judge.

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
hey Sherlock, do not mix all together your foolish ideas ok ...
here we speak about a woman, with a non desired child in her chest, being not supported by a chimp that did put his stinking sperm into her body and that woman wanting not to give birth to a child she never did ask for or never did love anyway because love was NOT the initiation of the act ...
ok ??
you understand ??

Then the woman shouldn't have had sex with the man in the first place !

This ''chimp'', as you call him, could never have impregnated her, without her consent.

She should take full responsibility for her actions, and choose her male partners better, in future.

''Love'' and ''lust'' are irrelevant, in this conversation, as they can be both expressed by the same physical action.

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
May I # you and make you pregnant ??

As long as you're female and reasonably pretty, then ''yes'' to the first part of the question.

As to the second part; then I'm afraid that just isn't biologically possible.

Originally posted by Xiamara
RAPE people Rape... Do you know how hard it is to say no to a man attacking you with a gun to your head?

You must be intentionally trying to misdirect and deflect my comments.

I have already pointed out that I approve of a woman's right to abort, if she was unfortunate enough to be a victim of rape.


Clearly, with that in mind, my comments are relating to consensual sex.

I mean, the actual content of my previous post, is based entirely on the scenario where the woman instigates sexual intercourse.


So, why the deflection ?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

In most cases, it's just pure selfishness from the woman.

And the men that get these women pregnant are having sex for self-less reasons??? Because they believe in responsibility, nuclear families and most importantly because they are ready for whatever out come might happen? Yeah right.
I dont understand why its such a crime for a woman to decline being a parent. Look at the world, People are in debt up to their necks, having their house's taken from them, gas an electric switched off, who would possibly want to raise a child in it??

"Your taking a life"
No my friend, your taking the pisshhh, stay out of other peoples bizzzz. (Not aimed directly at you sherlock)
That was aimed at those that insist on telling people what they can and cant do based on their own personal thoughts/feelings.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I am not deflecting Why are you so choosing to ignore rape victims if you want to play that game. Also why are you looking at older posts? I have much newer ones.

Your an ignorant male who seems to think women are 100% responsible for pregnancy. What would you do in my situation, 9 months of pain, stretch marks, risk of death. All because your birth control failed and your boyfriend didn't want to wear a rain jacket and threatened to leave you if you didn't have sex with him, or lets see another scenario peer pressure. Believe me its kinda hard to say no... He's bigger stronger and angrier. All you want is to have a happy relationship.

reply to post by Xiamara


well He would be just another "ignorant male" like myself right?

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.' "

Originally posted by Xiamara
Difference is between murder and abortion is why. Take murder there is random unjustified murder but what about self defense or manslaughter. Most murderers have a reason unless they have psychosis, even then there is reason it may not be a good one but there is reason. Same with abortion, it may not be a reason you agree with but someone does.

Aren't you just explaining the similarities between murder and abortion with your above comments ?

If we want to equate the two ''crimes'', then surely:

Self-defense = aborting a child that could potentially harm the mother, if she went through with pregnancy.

Manslaughter = aborting a child, when the mother wasn't fully mentally capable, or was incapable of realising the consequences of her actions.

Murder = aborting the child, because the mother couldn't face up to her responsibilities, or because she couldn't deal with the ''hassle'' of going through the pregnancy.

Seems like a fair assessment, to me.

Originally posted by Xiamara
So yes you can go kill your neighbours for loud music, its a reason and a moral and its a bit different since your not having bodily harm like pregnancy. Its just irritation. Murder technically is a social construct.

Well, I understand your defence of abortion, on the grounds of moral nihilism.

I must say that it's refreshing to hear it being argued on that level.

I have to disagree that loud music doesn't harm your body. Sometimes, my ear-drums and hearing operate at 80-90% responsivity, after being in a night-club or a car with a loud stereo.

Originally posted by Xiamara
Which is abortion you feel as though you will harm or be harmed by the unborn child. Until you are in that situation, which you never will be, you have no right to judge.

This is absolutely illogical and ridiculous.

So, I am prohibited to pass judgement on anything until I've personally experienced it ?


Oh, hang on a minute, let's suppose I'm walking along the street, and see some men sexually assaulting a woman.

I have never been sexually assaulted by men, so I have no right to judge their actions; ergo, I walk merrily onwards.


Do me a favour.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And the men that get these women pregnant are having sex for self-less reasons??? Because they believe in responsibility, nuclear families and most importantly because they are ready for whatever out come might happen? Yeah right.

The men don't need to have any responsibility.

Men don't have any physical attachment to the potential unborn child.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
I dont understand why its such a crime for a woman to decline being a parent. Look at the world, People are in debt up to their necks, having their house's taken from them, gas an electric switched off, who would possibly want to raise a child in it??

It's a ''crime'', because any woman ( or man, for that matter ) educated in basic biology, knows that having sex has the risk of creating a child.

It's a neglection of these responsibilities, in part, that makes abortion still a bit of a taboo in today's society.

The responsibility falls at the feet of the woman, because sex can't take place without her approval...

The man makes his advances, and it's ultimately down to the woman, whether she chooses to accept them, or not.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
"Your taking a life"
No my friend, your taking the pisshhh, stay out of other peoples bizzzz. (Not aimed directly at you sherlock)

That was aimed at those that insist on telling people what they can and cant do based on their own personal thoughts/feelings.

No offence taken.

But, isn't this the fundamental, irreconcilable difference in opinions on this issue ?

It is other people's business, if someone else's personal actions are harming another ''person'' ( ie. the unborn child )...

Has anyone thought of consensual sex with the right to abort under the circumstances of the girl getting the shot or having an implant because she clearly doesn't want to get pregnant and it just so happens that she ends up pregnant anyway? If both partners have agreed on not having children because to be responsible is to NOT live off of welfare like a lot of people already do? Because financially, emotionally, or maturity wise you're not ready to have children?
I've seen loads of parents who kept it and later on took it out on the kids themselves sometimes without even knowing it. By either not giving a crap about the kids, not taking proper care of them, or just treating them like an everyday burden. Isn't that a little inhuman and "morally wrong"? That later manifests itself in the kids as they begin to grow up. Not all of them are strong willed enough to see or get past it and live a "normal life" if you will. Some of them grow up having real mental issues.
Of course you can argue giving up for adoption but that's just as irresponsible as having it when your own circumstances can't allow you to keep it. Not to mention the fact that you have numerous cases of people regretting having to give up the baby in the first place because they weren't ready, and now you're sitting in court fighting for something that was never yours. Just sayin....for every side there's another side.

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by Xiamara

 

well He would be just another "ignorant male" like myself right?

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.' "

edit on 24-10-2010 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

The only scripture apart form the direction to LOVE one another that I can see that applies in this situation is :

Let s/he who has not sinned cast the first stone.


the rest is ego.



Rosha

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes



I did not compare it first May I say you did... By comparing murdering your neighbors for loud music. Now you see how absurd your comparison is...


My point is you will never know what child birth feels like or the risks it has since you are male so you cannot judge a woman for not wanting to go through with it.

Originally posted by Xiamara
I am not deflecting Why are you so choosing to ignore rape victims if you want to play that game. Also why are you looking at older posts? I have much newer ones.

''Ignoring rape victims'' ?

Where do you get that from ? I've already said that I think abortion is justified in cases of rape; ergo, my comments regarding abortion, are clearly not including those women that didn't have a choice to get pregnant.


I normally reply to posts, via the ''messages>replies'' tab, first. I like to keep my fans happy.

That is why I may respond to your earlier posts first, because I normally reply in chronological order ( for logical reasons ).

Originally posted by Xiamara
Your an ignorant male who seems to think women are 100% responsible for pregnancy.

In fairness, women largely are responsible for pregnancy.

Originally posted by Xiamara
What would you do in my situation, 9 months of pain, stretch marks, risk of death. All because your birth control failed and your boyfriend didn't want to wear a rain jacket and threatened to leave you if you didn't have sex with him, or lets see another scenario peer pressure. Believe me its kinda hard to say no... He's bigger stronger and angrier. All you want is to have a happy relationship.

Well, I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your bad experiences, and if you suffered from an abusive relationship.

No offence, but your ''boyfriend'' sounded like a complete tool.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes


In fairness, women largely are responsible for pregnancy.

Please explain? Since it does take 2 to tango a man does need to contribute sperm since Parthenogenesis in humans is not proven. Also give me some stats.. Otherwise your information is purely opinion.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Well, I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your bad experiences, and if you suffered from an abusive relationship.

No offence, but your ''boyfriend'' sounded like a complete tool.

Thankfully that is a story from my friend, not myself personally. But not all men are as nice as you seem to think they are. There are many women out there who are put in this situation and its not rape but at the same time...

Also there are many young girls and boys who do not have access to birth control or even know about proper birth control. Are they to be blamed for not knowing? My step sister at age 13 didn't get that sex was where babies came from because her school never taught sex education.

reply to post by Monts


Abortion is perfectly fine. In fact, it's morally right, because a lot of these would be teen-moms who end up getting abortions would be another burden to taxpayers and the welfare system (that is already being abused). I say, the more abortions the merrier.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You realise that woman have impulses to have sex just as much as men? And thus, that can lead to mistakes. Why should be expected to live with the out-come when she cannot fully provide for the child?

Originally posted by Xiamara
My point is you will never know what child birth feels like or the risks it has since you are male so you cannot judge a woman for not wanting to go through with it.

...yeah, he can...

...humans make judgements everyday, all day, about all kinds of things... sometimes judgements are based upon facts, experience, probability and sometimes not...

...a man CAN judge whether abortion is moral or not but their opinion cannot be applied to themselves - so, its about as valuable as the opinion of a mechanic who has never driven a car or a hairdresser whose own hair looks like a family of rats has been living in it for a decade...