Abortion is morally WRONG

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Brood
Attempts to suppress abortion and people's choices are morally wrong.

So it's morally wrong to suppress someone's ''choice'' to murder you ?

Give me a break !

Me? I'm not an abscess in a woman's uterus. I don't see how that relates. But feel free to continue... quite literally... screaming bloody murder about things that aren't any of your business.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

So it's morally wrong to suppress someone's ''choice'' to murder you ? Give me a break !

Surely it is wrong. But is abortion murder? Considering that human person begins to exist in 4-5 month of pregnancy, it is not a murder until then. Its just prevention of someones existence - in the same way birth control pills or condoms are not murder.

Do not forget that human life is NOT legaly protected, only human persons are. Thtas why it is legal to kill (or disconnect from life support) for example humans without functioning brain (even tough lots of them could live on life support equipment for long time).

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Think critically, not what the bible says, was written by primitive rich men with agendas to control and spread their vile guidelines for life.

Where exactly did Monts bring an any religious - let alone Christian - commentary to this thread ?

It appears to be you that has brought this point up in this thread.

Your chip on the shoulder; your problem.

Please don't bother the rest of us with your apparent ''issues'' surrounding religion.

There are other, more suitable, outlets on ATS, for you to deal with your personal problems regarding religion.

reply to post by Monts


I'm surprised this has come as a issue in ATS. Since when do we enforce our beliefs on others. If a woman is choosing abortion for the easy way out, she will have to deal with it. Whether it be her guilty concsious or when she passes away and gets judged then. Not one of us know on any given abortion if 1) the fetus will go the term, 2) if the fetus is born and may have a horrble life due to medical issues 0r 3) the fetus is born and grows up to be the next adolph hitler.

I don't want to judge others decisions, I know what I would like to be done in that situation and I'm comfortable with that.

I think everyone should worry about themselves on this topic

reply to post by Rosha


no one said I was...are you? something wrong with "slinging" scripture as opposed to lieing, personally slandering or accusing? people bring up information to back a position or ideaology all the time everywhere-even freedom of speech right? freedom of information? where do your ideas come from...which writings/words of other people? does truth set free if so where does it come from/originate? legal codes? you?

For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.-2Peter1

from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete.-2Timothy3

reply to post by The Sword


exactly which belief is that?

In the end, it doesn't matter if people believe abortion is wrong or not. Although I personally feel that it should be completely up to those who this is effecting, I don't believe in abortion after more than half way through the term myself. But being America, I also believe that we are 'supposed' to be a country of choice and what not, so no matter what someone's personal opinion on the idea, it should not hinder those who do not have those same values. If I would put a law about it, I would allow abortion, but not after 6 months...then just adopt it if you must.

I would not allow insurance to cover abortions though, unless it was a private company that let customers know if they cover it or not. And no tax payer money should go towards that since those who pay taxes all have different values and it's not fair to have them pay for your "mistakes", especially if such things went against their morals and beliefs.

Also, to the scripture guy. Just because you have total faith in something does not make it fact. I could say Valhalla is fact and that no matter what you say, your beliefs are wrong. Is that going to change your mind? No. Quoting a religious text, no matter how much you personally believe in it, does not make it a rational argument. It just gives you less credibility as there are so many people who have other faiths, beliefs, values who believe themselves to be just as right and you practically insult them by throwing your faith in their face while saying those who believe otherwise are always wrong.

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by Rosha

 

no one said I was...are you? something wrong with "slinging" scripture as opposed to lieing, personally slandering or accusing? people bring up information to back a position or ideaology all the time everywhere-even freedom of speech right? freedom of information? where do your ideas come from...which writings/words of other people? does truth set free if so where does it come from/originate? legal codes? you?

For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.-2Peter1

from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete.-2Timothy3

edit on 25-10-2010 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

You have been and are picking and choosing scriptures to suit your arguments..go back and read yourself.

What of " I am in you as you are in me" or " As you judge so you will be judged" or the command to " LOVE one another".

No..those peaceful and loving scriptures dont get a look in when your writing in hate.

Is spewing vitotrol and stirring up hate against women who are forced to make choices you wont ever have to face a loving compassionate act?

There are only ten commandments, and one command given that embraces them all.
Hating, condeming, judging and marginalising women who ar confronted with extreme choices doesnt come under "Love one another". Not in anyones book.

Not one of the ten commandments says its ok for you to use Gods name or His word to proove reproove or elevate your ego either. In fact there are several writings saying not to do that lest HIS name be made meaningless.

Christ died for ALL ...not just pretty people or people who've never sinned.

...again...

IF you have not sinned...THEN you can judge...THEN you can start throwing stones..THEN you can feel justified to sling your ego around...but you like everyone else, have sinned havent you?

Its not a matter of 'degrees of sin' either..sin is sin..so you stand equal to every woman who has had an abortion..before God you are no different.

Isnt it written the whores and theives will enter heaven before you?

God is my judge..all my endings and beginings are in Him..not in your opinion of what you think is written in scripture....and I do thank, God for that.



Rosha

reply to post by Rosha


Why do you feel the need to quote scripture? It was written by some guys who wanted everyone to act and behave the way they wanted them to. Don't you believe that the ALL Powerful could delvier His message in a better way than just asking for a few men to tell the rest of us.

Originally posted by amc621
reply to post by Rosha

 

Why do you feel the need to quote scripture? It was written by some guys who wanted everyone to act and behave the way they wanted them to. Don't you believe that the ALL Powerful could delvier His message in a better way than just asking for a few men to tell the rest of us.

I was quoting in contrast, and only then, responding to being 'scriptured on'...as, instead of replying with reasoned argument, Monts continued to reply to my post writings with quotes from the bible.

Please read the entire thread before you comment.

Rosha

reply to post by Monts


Having had an abortion at the age of fifteen, it was an extrememly difficult thought process. I came to the conclusion it would be the best for the child an myself.
I was single, homeless and in an abusive relationship. I tell this story not for sympathy but for a more broad veiw of life and it circumstances.

reply to post by splashcat

abortion is NEVER a facility solution !! it is a very very difficult decision to make for a woman but once she decides to do it she is already convinced that this embryo is not " hers "
so there is no love implicated, no relation with that embryo, it's like a tumor inside her she wants to get rid of because rape or huge difficulties to accept that child in her.

reply to post by Monts


Ever considered the child whose mother is considering abortion? Every wonder what its like to be an unwanted mistake?

If you are a Christian you believe an innocent baby goes to heaven. An aborted baby thus goes to heaven.

So I ask you if you asked the 'child' do you want to be born to parents who arent sure they want you or do you want to go to heaven? What do you think the child would say.

The only person selfish are those that wish to impose their desire for others to live likely derived from their own selfish desire to survive.

I used to have a great deal more respect for the anti-abortion perspective. Until I discovered that the most major organizations against abortion, work just as hard against birth control.

That was a little like the day I woke up to the real nature of PETA.

So I quit looking at it like a good intention to spare lives, and began looking at it like the 'front' for an activist politicized idealogy seeking to control everyone else's behavior to fit their own subjective views. Which would be ok if it were out front, but usually that element is behind, and the most 'socially sellable' ideal related to the topic is pushed out front like the poster child for intent.

So in this case, the "save the babies" movement is the front for the "don't have sex" movement.

I just can't wrap my head around any organized effort that does not attempt to *prevent the need for* the action they are trying to prevent/make illegal.

RC

reply to post by Rosha


["I too find abortion-as a-flippantcontraception repugnant, even deplorable and I personally find late term abortions utterly wrong and for me, totally unconsciencable.']

hmm

the word of God is not chained.

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by Traydor

 

Well I think morality is situational, think of sex. Rape is immoral yet consensual is moral... Same act, different situations.


Take murder too, Self defense is okay but murder isn't a life is taken both times.

edit on 23-10-2010 by Xiamara because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-10-2010 by Xiamara because: Found better Example

No - you're wrong; sex is immoral unless within marriage and in the missionary position because the Christians know best.

Sorry i just had to! xD

I couldn't agree more with you. Morality is subjective and like you said applied according to the situation with reason and logic.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Thank you!!! I wanted some one to say that.. I was hoping a fundie would... Now I leave this topic before I go GRAAAAAAAAH...

Support freedom of choice... Its gonna happen if you like it or not... *disappears in a dramatic cloud of smoke*

Originally posted by Traydor
Sherlock - Men do need to take responsibility for their actions as men do play a major part in making babies, you are insulting the decent men out there who take their responsibility seriously, you are also insulting the decent women out there who are put in situations they didn't ask for

Men don't need to take responsibilty, because it's the entirely the woman's choice whether the baby is created, or not.

There are no women I'm insulting.

The only time a woman becomes pregnant, and it's not her fault, is in the case of rape.

I've already mentioned about 27 times already on this thread - although everybody seems to want to ignore this - that I approve of a woman's right to abort in thecase of rape.

Clearly, in in this instance, it's not her fault or responsibilty that sexual intercourse takes place; ergo, it's not her fault or responsibility if she conceives from a rape.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...the difference, sherlock, is that you could commit murder, rape, armed robbery, burglary or arson... you can NEVER get pregnant or give birth...

I still don't get it.

No, I can't get pregnant or give birth, neither can a woman be castrated; does that make a woman's view on castration less relevant than a man's - if that was what you are referring to ?

Originally posted by Maslo
Surely it is wrong. But is abortion murder? Considering that human person begins to exist in 4-5 month of pregnancy, it is not a murder until then.

But this just comes down to the fundamental difference of opinion between pro-abortionists and anti-abortionists.

Any definition of a ''person'' is based on someone's own personal opinion, not demonstrable facts.

Originally posted by Maslo
Its just prevention of someones existence - in the same way birth control pills or condoms are not murder.

Again, it depends on someone's personal definition of when ''someone'' starts to exist, not a factual definition.

Originally posted by Maslo
Do not forget that human life is NOT legaly protected, only human persons are. Thtas why it is legal to kill (or disconnect from life support) for example humans without functioning brain (even tough lots of them could live on life support equipment for long time).

The legality or illegality of an action, doesn't always correlate with the morality of it.

Laws would never change if we just accepted something because it was legal.