Nazi Atomic weapons in 1943

Originally posted by Manhandler12
I keep reading people saying things like that but when pressed for corroboration they usually don't have any.

Do we have a source for this claim?

not a real source, just someone who likes writing fiction on things like "Great Pyramid may have been a sophisticated kind of phase conjugate mirror manipulating the fabric of the physical medium itself"

author of a number of books on alternative history, Pseudohistory, historical revisionism, Pseudoarchaeology, and Pseudoscience/physics

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by Manhandler12
I keep reading people saying things like that but when pressed for corroboration they usually don't have any.

Do we have a source for this claim?

not a real source, just someone who likes writing fiction on things like "Great Pyramid may have been a sophisticated kind of phase conjugate mirror manipulating the fabric of the physical medium itself"

author of a number of books on alternative history, Pseudohistory, historical revisionism, Pseudoarchaeology, and Pseudoscience/physics

en.wikipedia.org...

Why would you go to the Wikipedia as an authority on something like this, especially while posting on a conspiracy site?

The Wikipedia is useful to let you know what the official fairy tales are. It is not *the truth* and in fact is laughable in many respects.

The only way for an individual to know what Farrell is saying is for them to read his books, check his sources, and then decide for themselves. Anybody who studies WWII seriously will learn that things are not as they seem, and surely the facts are not related to the modern fairy tales in any serious manner.

It is useful to know who the gatekeepers are, so thanks for your post regardless.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Anybody who studies WWII seriously will learn that things are not as they seem,

Yes, we know all about the people who claim to do that, known as "history revisionists" like David Irving....

and surely the facts are not related to the modern fairy tales in any serious manner.

But Farell only has fairy stories....

reply to post by hellobruce


That's not true at all. Farrell is well researched and revisionism is necessary when the official court histories are so badly tainted with lies.

Interesting that you would attempt to lump Icke in with Farrell. That's an amusing tactic. Also interesting is that you have no desire to attempt to defend your citation of the tainted Wikipedia.

A question - what are you even doing on a conspiracy site at all? Reading your history a bit is enlightening. I think you took a wrong turn trying to get to the discussion board of MSNBC!

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Interesting that you would attempt to lump Icke in with Farrell.

I never even mentioned Icke....

You seem to think the motto of this site is "Embrace Ignorance".... check again, it is "Deny Ignorance", which is exactly what I am doing here....

reply to post by hellobruce


How would you even know what ignorance is? Clearly you are averse to any investigation of the historical record.

The fact is that, since the early 1950s there have been reports of Japanese and German nuclear bomb tests. Eyewitnesses have come forward, the materials and scientists were requisitioned, etc. Whether or not the bombs were actually tested is of course up in the air, but it is not beyond plausibility.

Revision of history is necessary if ou want to treat the subject more like a science and less like a loose packet of fairy tales. Of course, admitting to yourself that you swallowed the pack of lies disguised as history involves swallowing your pride, first. Many, seemingly including you, don't have the balls to do this, but let me ask again - why are you here? You are prolific and your entire overarching theme seems to be "trust the man and go back to sleep." A very strange message for this place. As I suggested, maybe you are lost and ou think this is MSNBC or Huffington Post or Jezebel? HBGary in the house.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by Manhandler12
I keep reading people saying things like that but when pressed for corroboration they usually don't have any.

Do we have a source for this claim?

not a real source, just someone who likes writing fiction on things like "Great Pyramid may have been a sophisticated kind of phase conjugate mirror manipulating the fabric of the physical medium itself"

author of a number of books on alternative history, Pseudohistory, historical revisionism, Pseudoarchaeology, and Pseudoscience/physics

en.wikipedia.org...

Why would you go to the Wikipedia as an authority on something like this, especially while posting on a conspiracy site?

Fine. Let's check the Web site ran by Mr. Farrel himself:

Joseph P. Farrell has a doctorate in patristics from the University of Oxford

So he's an expert in early Christian sources. I think I may get a brain trauma just trying to think how it may be related to nuclear technology. I also looked at his book, the Giza Death Star and there is just too much bullcrap in it. Some of it is really stupid:

It is also built in a ratio of the mean distance of the Earth to the Sun, for its height times 10**9 equals the mean radius of the Earth orbit

With what precision, may I ask?

If I start multiplying dimensions of various objects around me by very large numbers, sure as hell I will discover some "sacred geometry". I'm certain that if I multiply the mean length of a piece of spaghetti in my kitchen by 10 to the power of "X", where X is to be determined, it may become apparent that my pasta is related to the rings of Saturn, moons of Jupiter of failing that, Phobos. I have a better idea - if I multiply my own height by a sufficiently large number, it will show once and for all that I'm related to Sun itself! Behold the living god.

But wait, Farrel doesn't stop here... He quotes who? Christopher Dunn!

It's a machine

Yeah, sure, why not.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
The fact is that, since the early 1950s there have been reports of Japanese and German nuclear bomb tests. Eyewitnesses have come forward, the materials and scientists were requisitioned, etc. Whether or not the bombs were actually tested is of course up in the air, but it is not beyond plausibility.

It is just as beyond plausibility as me becoming a billionaire in my lifetime. Which would be very sweet, but still remains impossible.

You see, the materials required in manufacture of a nuclear weapon are either very hard to manufacture, or very tightly controlled, but usually both. You can do some research of the US nuclear program to appreciate the enormous difficulties in just getting the stuff, not to even mentioned design and assembly of a nuke. Both countries you mentioned were:

a) in ruin
b) occupied by foreign powers

Nah.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
The fact is that, since the early 1950s there have been reports of Japanese and German nuclear bomb tests. Eyewitnesses have come forward, the materials and scientists were requisitioned, etc. Whether or not the bombs were actually tested is of course up in the air, but it is not beyond plausibility.

It is just as beyond plausibility as me becoming a billionaire in my lifetime. Which would be very sweet, but still remains impossible.

You see, the materials required in manufacture of a nuclear weapon are either very hard to manufacture, or very tightly controlled, but usually both. You can do some research of the US nuclear program to appreciate the enormous difficulties in just getting the stuff, not to even mentioned design and assembly of a nuke. Both countries you mentioned were:

a) in ruin
b) occupied by foreign powers

Nah.

When these countries were in ruin and occupied by foreign powers, the materials, apparatus, plans, and even the scientists were all either eliminated or in the case of humans intimidated.

Who is to say that the methods and technology used to build the bomb in the USA must be identical to anybody else's bomb attempts? The fact remains that even mainstream historians admit that both Germany and Japan had bomb programs, and that there were witnesses who said they saw test detonations. You can't argue with these facts, so you invent a hypothetical. Pretty tricksy!

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Who is to say that the methods and technology used to build the bomb in the USA must be identical to anybody else's bomb attempts?

Me. I'm educated in the field of nuclear physics. There is no infinite number of ways to create a fission bomb. I'm not saying the technologies must be identical, but the number of venues to pursue in creating such weapon is fairly limited, and it was even more limited back in the day. I assume you are familiar with the basic design of both uranium and plutonium based devices.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Who is to say that the methods and technology used to build the bomb in the USA must be identical to anybody else's bomb attempts?

Me. I'm educated in the field of nuclear physics. There is no infinite number of ways to create a fission bomb. I'm not saying the technologies must be identical, but the number of venues to pursue in creating such weapon is fairly limited, and it was even more limited back in the day. I assume you are familiar with the basic design of both uranium and plutonium based devices.

Of course I am familiar with the publicly disclosed designs of fission and fusion weapons, but I am not so delusional that I imagine that they are the only avenues of weapons design. And the fact that Germany and Japan devoted resources and brainpower to the creation of their own nuclear bombs is mainstream history at this point. As I said above, there is testimony from witnesses in both nations that claims that devices were tested. None of this is even controversial at this point.

As far as your analysis of Farrell, sure, he goes into esoteric subjects but this doesn't disprove his entire body of work. Issac Newton believed in alchemy but we still use Calculus. Same with Farrell - one aspect of him does not necessarily invalidate all of his work.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Of course I am familiar with the publicly disclosed designs of fission and fusion weapons, but I am not so delusional that I imagine that they are the only avenues of weapons design.

Put it this way - if there were drastically different avenues of weapons design, they would have become known in the 50+ years since the alleged events took place. And it doesn't even touch upon my point re: materials and tech availability (which was none).

reply to post by buddhasystem


It does not follow that a new weapons technology would become known. In fact, if anything it would be a heavily guarded secret. If a new technology with a military application is developed, secrecy is paramount because this technology becomes another ace in the hole. This is basic military strategy going all the way back to Greek Fire, the precise composition of which is still unknown! There are some recipes created in relatively modern times, by analyzing the properties of the weapon related in stories from the period, but secrecy was maintained for a very, very long time. Nowadays, security practices are stricter, and technologies more complicated, making leaks more difficult.

And yes, Germany and Japan had difficulties in securing certain materials, but this doesn't mean that they were unable to make progress. Again, if this progress involved an alternative route to the goal of atomic weapons, compared to the USA's route, how would we know what they lacked and what they didn't?

I find it difficult to swallow your story, because you are assuming that you have the whole story. Some of this information, such as that regarding the research program at Riken in Japan, is fairly new, and only recently revealed documents show that the Japanese at least were much further along than anybody suspected even in 2005.

I find it curious to meet such a closed-minded person on a conspiracy forum. Are you sure you're in the right place? After all, this place is sort of created in order to discuss things that do not fit into the official narrative. However lots of silly little games go on here as well. I hope you're not playing one with me.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
However lots of silly little games go on here as well.

Very true, like some people claiming Germany and Japan had the capability to develop a nuclear bomb..... very silly indeed!

Click here for more information.

I note that there is still absolutely no proof, in any way, shape or form, for the claim that the Germans ever created even a mini-nuke.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
I note that there is still absolutely no proof, in any way, shape or form, for the claim that the Germans ever created even a mini-nuke.

Of course there is not any proof. However, there are surviving statements to that effect in the historical record, and this, while not proof, is indeed evidence.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
I note that there is still absolutely no proof, in any way, shape or form, for the claim that the Germans ever created even a mini-nuke.

Of course there is not any proof. However, there are surviving statements to that effect in the historical record, and this, while not proof, is indeed evidence.

There are some statements from people who saw what was possibly a fuel-air bomb in the Ukraine, but not a nuclear weapon. There has never been anything, at all, to prove that the Germans developed a nuclear device. Given Hitler's propensity for destruction he wouldn't wasted any device on a Soviet unit in the Ukraine, he'd have used it to turn London into a smoking hole in the ground. Besides, given the German love of records there's no sign of the research/supply chain needed to create a nuclear weapon. Which reminds me, I need to get out my copy of Most Secret War by RV Jones, an excellent account of the scientific aspect of the war.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
I note that there is still absolutely no proof, in any way, shape or form, for the claim that the Germans ever created even a mini-nuke.

Of course there is not any proof. However, there are surviving statements to that effect in the historical record, and this, while not proof, is indeed evidence.

There are some statements from people who saw what was possibly a fuel-air bomb in the Ukraine, but not a nuclear weapon. There has never been anything, at all, to prove that the Germans developed a nuclear device. Given Hitler's propensity for destruction he wouldn't wasted any device on a Soviet unit in the Ukraine, he'd have used it to turn London into a smoking hole in the ground. Besides, given the German love of records there's no sign of the research/supply chain needed to create a nuclear weapon. Which reminds me, I need to get out my copy of Most Secret War by RV Jones, an excellent account of the scientific aspect of the war.

There are statements from people who saw a large explosion in the Ukraine. There are other statements from people in Japan who developed what they claim is a nuclear weapon at Riken. The idea that it is a fuel air bomb is supported by less proof than the idea that it was a nuclear weapon in both cases.

Interpolating Hitler's actions was impossible for the Allies, for the Soviets he betrayed, and is just as impossible for a person today. As I said before, while there isn't PROOF that Japan and Germany developed atomic weapons, there is some evidence to that effect. And as I said before, just because America developed a bomb using one set of technologies, this doesn't force Germany and Japan to have used the same methods or materials to achieve a similar effect. In fact, the Nazis were excellent masters at developing their own, completely different technologies so they could take advantage of the resources they did have. Quartz crystals, unique radio designs, synthetic fuels, advanced medicines, jet engines, advanced submarine designs, guided ballistic missiles, and such all prove that the Nazis were more than willing to take advantage of alternative paths of development, and they shared many of these developments with the Japanese.

If you read the excellent documents at www.cdvandt.org..., which is the web site of a radio-oriented museum in the Netherlands, you'll see how uniquely innovative the Germans were, and you will also have your mistaken idea that we have all the German documentation and records shattered. The truth is, during the occupation, the Germans in the war industries were extremely non-cooperative and they destroyed much more documentation than we obtained.

reply to post by Aleister


Otto Hahn was a radio chemist involved in identifying various elements created by nuclear transmutation and their fission products, properties etc. His role was vital in identification and separation of various radioactive substances and he was based at the Atomic Bomb laboratory at Tailfingen near hechingen from 1944.

Hahn also maintained correspondence with Lise Meitner in Stockholm who was the real genius behind him. Unfortunately for Hahn, she also worked for British intelligence in Operation Epsilon.