Nazi Atomic weapons in 1943

Originally posted by sy.gunson
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Gamma rays are naturally occuring neutron emissions.

Sir, this statement of yours if fully and totally cr@p.

X-rays are artificially induced neutron emissions.

Likewise.

How about you learn some physics?

there is a lot of disinformation and misinformation across the board around the ENTIRE war!!

There was just so much going on that has since become inconvenient for individuals or nations or just the general narrative as told by western histories...

The entire era is best summed up in the hindenburg crash which basically destroyed commercial airships as a transport method in one fell swoop... no matter how horrific the incident looked 35 people died out of the 97 on board. Beats the hell out of TWA 800 right?

Just like that incident which is represented one distinct way ... THE REALITY is quite different.

reply to post by roguetechie


Would have been great if we had built a replica of Hiroshima out in area 51 complete with rubber citizens then bombed it in effigy wouldn't it? Unfortunately history tells us that the US annihilated 3 largely civilian cities and left the populations to die of radiation poisoning. The experts claim the Asian mind would only have been angered if we had demonstrated the weapon in Tokyo bay. A demonstration would not have shortened the pacific war according to the psychologists. We at least should show some respect for the victims.

It's highly unlikely the nazi's exploded a nuclear weapon. But I know for certain that the have experimented with Fuel/Air bombs. I think i read in a Farell book, SS Brotherhood of the Bell, that they had a pretty well documented Fuel/Air bomb test that had a shock wave that could be felt for up to 2km in diameter from the explosion.

Since the reports from the OP suggest that all of the russian soldiers were charred black that would suggest to me that the nazis hit them with an A/F bomb of some kind and not a nuke. Nuke victims flesh tends to just melt away and blister. It doesn't char black like a traditional burn from a flame.



Around the same time America had developed their own fuel air bomb as well and IMO they may have lifted their design during project paperclip.

Originally posted by Bordon81
Unfortunately history tells us that the US annihilated 3 largely civilian cities and left the populations to die of radiation poisoning.

Wrong actually, history tells us the Japanese refused to surrender after 1 city, Hiroshima a city of considerable military importance, containing Japan's Second Army Headquarters, as well as being a communications center and storage depot so another city Nagasaki, with the dockyards under control of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries becoming one of the prime contractors for the Imperial Japanese Navy, and with Nagasaki harbor used as an anchorage under the control of nearby Sasebo Naval District was bombed. The allies were also getting ready to bomb about a city a week until Japan surrendered.

this post and the replies are like a freaking physics lesson. i had a few years of physics in college but nothing like this. in the realm of possibility, most people would believe that towards the end of wwii, germany was able to make some headway into a fission based nuclear weapon, a dirty weapon of sorts. wouldn't an experimental explosion be able to be tracked and documented? but back on point. is the issue whether they had or not? or is the real issue that another country with the initials usa provide the technical info to the germans? and the horrific concept of that truth? just saying.

reply to post by Bordon81


I am not quite sure what your reply has to do with my post but just FYI the US military bombed TWO cities hiroshima and nagasaki with Enola Gay and Bocks Car dropping fat man and little boy Nuclear bombs...

See this is the key to posting online... Making sure you have your information at least halfway correct!!

I confess that as I am writing this post I have a google tab open which I just used to search the name of the second b29 that dropped a Nuke in world war 2. This isn't a social studies test you don't lose points for consulting your sources mid essay!

However you do open yourself to a total loss of credibility by saying things like 3 cities were bombed... and they left the citizens to die.

Yes they did in fact do this but what would you suggest they do? Japan was not just a HOSTILE combatant but in fact was readying it's homeland populace to resist and die for every square inch of their homeland!
If we had sent in forces to help (stupidly asinine hypothetical that it is) we would have been cruelly consigning those service men to a messy and SLOW death at the hands of the japanese ... I don't know maybe you've heard of bataan a time or two?

Beyond that I'd just like to point out for all of those "horrified" by the use of nuclear weapons on "civilians"
First off those bombs were in fact dropped to impact militarily or logistically significant targets as was stated by another poster....
Second: the two nuclear bombs were nowhere near as destructive as several allied firebombing campaigns both in Japan and Europe! that doesn't make the firebombings right or the nuclear bombs right BUT it does put a historical perspective on an incident that many INSIST on taking very far out of context.
THIRD: Every single major power in the war was in a desperate race to build viable nuclear weapons and design a strategy for implementing their usage on the battlefield. You can be DAMN SURE if the japanese had built them first and found a way to the continental US we would have seen one of our cities brew up in a nuclear fireball!

As I've pointed out in other threads and in this one too I think... there is substantial evidence that the one exception to this is germany who may or may not have had the capability and chosen not to use it. Which would not surprise me at all as they had several capabilities that mysteriously didn't get used even though we are told they were throwing everything they had at us at the end... There are too many things about World War 2 that do not add up with the narrative and storyline we in the general populace have been presented as the truth.
Much beyond what can be chalked up to "fog of war" as several things that would be understandable oversights on their own start adding up to agendas other than those stated by the history books of certain players at various points before during and after the war.

reply to post by roguetechie

agendas other than those stated by the history books of certain players at various points before during and after the war.

As a thought experiment put yourself in the position of the physicists and engineers who were tasked with developing war machinery. Some like Tesla tried to warn the others by journaling signals from Mars but was quickly mocked and swept under the rug. As far as German engineers were concerned, they used a different strategy. For example the Horten brothers who developed the Gotha Go 229 were tasked with designing a bomber that could fly across the atlantic and bomb New York. According to the historical records that project simply ran into too many problems to be completed, engines overheating, fuel capacity problems on and on. Once the German scientists and engineers were relocated to the US via operations like paper clip the glue and soot dreams of the German aeronautical engineers were completed. I'm sure the nuclear weapons program worked similarly and some scientists tried to stall the development of a nuclear weapons. Out in the desert the question of the day would have been, how could a scientist working under military control be sure the fruits of their labor would not be used to destroy the earth?

We may never know the truth about how far Germany was before we defeated them. Who knows, maybe the Trinity Test bomb was liberated from the Nazi's before they could use it.

If you are into history and research...get a plane ticket for Tinian and visit the National Historic Site where the bombs were loaded before they flew to Japan. There's a controversial story that says we had an accident there and one of the scientists died that day getting the Fatman/LittleBoy ready. I've been told there is a pine tree growing there that has coconuts growing on it.

DOD plans on bulldozing Tinian for the new Marianas Military Super Base. Get a plane ticket for Tinian and take a geiger counter and document history before it gets bulldozed up and hid from us.

I think the Germans actually did build nuclear bombs. We just got lucky and defeated them before they were able to deliver them. Maybe in 50 years we will be able to find out the truth.

reply to post by Bordon81


The records show that the scientists on all sides were genuinely working as hard and fast as they could to beat the other side to the punch...

As far as the other projects ... well we'll just say if you really look into certain projects and read up about the battles of a political nature around them and then you further look into whats known of the prevailing attitudes and beliefs in various time periods you'll see that many many projects "kept running into problems" because people at various levels knew their side wasn't going to win no matter what they did for various reasons and its already verified that many high level people inside germany were negotiating with allied intelligence groups for assurances of safety and comfort post war even BEFORE D day... and this is just what we know about!!!

That is what I allude to in other posts by agendas and stuff going on behind the scenes. The entire war was stage managed by various interests from beginning to end and was in fact just a small part in a much bigger longer agenda that you can catch glimpses of occasionally throughout the last hundred years.

It is proven and in fact ACCEPTED that ARMS dealers combined with certain banking and industrial interests Started and MANAGED world war 1 by the simple expedient of controlling the amount of munitions and FUNDING available to each side PLUS more OVERT acts to manage the entire scenario from start to finish. World war 2 was no different but the puppet strings were better hidden.

Then we have Korea... Korea and the BLATANT conspiracies behind the war and it's management behind the scenes by parties other than governments was the SMOKING GUN that really got me looking at the world differently... Specifically the facts pointed out in Jim Marrs Book Rule By Secrecy opened my eyes.

(note: I do not believe EVERYTHING in that book but the book is one I would recommend as a nearly IDEAL primer to REAL HISTORY and the REAL workings of the world. IF you want to introduce someone to the topic a copy of that book and wikipedia for cross checking information can be a good place to start someone's journey into the dark world we actually inhabit)

reply to post by roguetechie

Specifically the facts pointed out in Jim Marrs Book Rule By Secrecy opened my eyes.

A cursory check of JIM's book states that he feels the Illuminati are "An evolved 1700s order, of German origin,"

We can learn a lot about the PTB and the MSM from their activities in the past.

Prior to the invention of the printing press there still was an MSM and an Illuminati. They were just limited to prominent architectural monuments, artistic works and legends that would likely be seen and heard by the public.

Not wishing to derail the thread, but the idea of creating an atomic doomsday weapon may have been something Tesla discussed with Mark Twain back in the 1800's. Tesla did not experiment with explosives, so that limits the construction details.

Dear Mr. Tesla - Have you Austrian & English patents on that destructive terror which you are inventing? - & if so, won't you set a price upon them & commission me to sell them? I know cabinet ministers of both countries - & of Germany, too; likewise William II. I shall be in Europe a year, yet. Here in the hotel the other night when some interested men were discussing means to persuade the nations to join with the Czar & disarm, I advised them to seek something more sure than disarmament by perishable paper-contract - invite the great inventors to contrive something against which fleets & armies would be helpless, & thus make war thenceforth impossible. I did not suspect that you were already attending to that, & getting ready to introduce into the earth permanent peace & disarmament in a practical & mandatory way. I know you are a very busy man, but will you steal time to drop me a line? Sincerely Yours, Mark Twain

Time $ here's the full link.

www.nuc.berkeley.edu...

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The hollow charge was used by German forces in reduction of fort Eben Emal in 1939

Oh dear, you are wrong again, Fort Eben-Emael was not attacked until 10th May 1940....

Yup, that's the right time.

I was specifically referring to the information in his book regarding the Korean War... specifically the FACT that the Russian position on the security council meant that the war could be effectively stage managed by those in power directly rather than by proxy like in the past.

My personal feeling is his facts in that book on SPECIFIC INCIDENTS were right on and can be verified from other sources however I remain highly doubtful about the overarching Narrative he used to put it together. One of the things I see him as wrong on is the whole weishaupt illuminati issue as whatever we are dealing with is old enough and prevalant enough to have Created two major religions and tied in a third pre existing religion to use for their own ends (yes I do believe christianity and Islam are 100% not authentic entities and PERFECTLY DESIGNED to be in opposition to each other with Judaism as the perfect foil in the middle to prevent the two larger conflict points from EVER MAKING PEACE.

Now what this has to do with German nukes is pretty simple in that in the end the point is moot because in my personal view the basic narrative scripting of the war was established way ahead of the first shots being fired.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
I have previously explained that the driving of superheated Lithium into Deuterium (in this case a deuteride) forms X-rays. Those X-rays create sufficient neutron flux to mimic the equivalent effect of critical mass. Very simple.

Except of course to cause fusion you need temperatures of millions of degrees and massive pressure using X-Rays. Hence why a fission device is used to ignite the thermonuclear reaction.
So basically your saying fusion is used to ignite a fission weapon - that statement is completely backward and no you haven't proved anything except a lack of knowledge of basic physics.

The germans got as far as a small reactor that wasnt large enough to go critical, the scientists that worked on the project were picked up by the Alsos Mission, they were taken back to the UK and were informed of the bombing of Japan, there tried to hide their failure by stating they didnt want a bomb, check out Operation Epsilon where the German scientists were recorded secretly after being caputred

The truth is that the OSS had sabotaged the Vermork fertilizer plant, they produced small amounts of heavy water, which was essential to the Germans plans for the bomb and this put many experiments out of bounds

Wee Mad

reply to post by sy.gunson


Them nazis had some sick technology,so sick it granted the scientists that created it immunity from their war crimes.

Germany never could have detonated nuclear weapons, when the Americans captured the lead scientists on the German nuclear project they were interrogated saying that it would take over a thousand pounds of plutonium to make a nuclear, and were astounded when they were told America did it with 1-10 lbs

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by sy.gunson
reply to post by mad scientist

 

And whilst you struggle to prove your ridiculous claim you have no grasp how tactical nukes create X-rays do you?
If so I welcome your explanation.

If you know so much please explain how the American Swann device works?
I doubt you can.

It has become clear that you know absolutely nothing about nuclear weapons design or even how a nuclear weapon works. I have explained how the Swan device works using 2 point implosion and it resembles nothing presented in your ridiculous diagram of a supposed nazi nuke. You don't even understand what a critical mass is and how it pertains to a self sustaining nuclear reaction. Please go and educate yourself, there is tons of information at your fingertips, as well as information about basic physics. READ.

Everything you've claimed has no basis in physics.

You entirely evaded my question.

I previously explained that colliding Lithium with Deuterium causes nuclear fusion though what is called a plasma pinch. The resultant fusion imparts a rush of neutrons to the fissile target (uranium 233). That is a two step process.

If you had any grasp of nuclear physics you would be aware what a pinch is.

In addition this concept was considered by the Manhattan project in 1942 and rejected as too technologically challenging, thus the Allies took a low tech approach.

Typically however the Germans took the hi tech approach



To add further critical mass put loosely is the mass at which in the correct geometry 35-40% of neutrons will not escape the mass but rather stay to replicate collisions with other atoms causing the ejection of further neutrons from those atoms.

The detonation of a fissile mass however is not solely dependent upon critical mass. Critical mass is merely the natural state at which a given quantity of fissile matter will replicate at it's optimum rate.

Unless you understand the difference between critical mass and criticality, you will never comprehend how a smaller mass can also be detonated.

:?)

Originally posted by denynothing
Germany never could have detonated nuclear weapons, when the Americans captured the lead scientists on the German nuclear project they were interrogated saying that it would take over a thousand pounds of plutonium to make a nuclear, and were astounded when they were told America did it with 1-10 lbs

You should back up that claim with a quote... which you will never find, because the Germans did not call it Plutonium and did not have any.

They called 239Pu eka-Osmium

Prof Fritz Houtermanns however in October 1941 accurately predicted the neutron reproduction rate for both Uranium 235 and for Plutonium 239 (albeit not named "Plutonium")

At Farm Hall the interned Nazi scientists were baffled what the name Plutonium signified when the bombing of Nagasaki was announced to them.

And to guide you Heisenberg who headed the Nazi civil nuclear program was surprised along with his civil scientist compadres, however military scientists present like Diebner clammed up. Diebner knew quite well long before 1945 what was possible.

Originally posted by weemadmental
The germans got as far as a small reactor that wasnt large enough to go critical, the scientists that worked on the project were picked up by the Alsos Mission, they were taken back to the UK and were informed of the bombing of Japan, there tried to hide their failure by stating they didnt want a bomb, check out Operation Epsilon where the German scientists were recorded secretly after being caputred

The truth is that the OSS had sabotaged the Vermork fertilizer plant, they produced small amounts of heavy water, which was essential to the Germans plans for the bomb and this put many experiments out of bounds

Wee Mad

edit on 20/11/2010 by weemadmental because: (no reason given)

You simply never read my earlier post on page one of this thread did you?

The the Vermork plant was only out of commission for a month. It was dismantled in 1944 and reassembled in Germany. Harteck disclosed after the war that the heavy water shipment on the Hydro ferry was a low concentration decoy shipment and the actual shipment went by road and took six weeks to reach Germany.

furthermore Vermork was not Germany's only Heavy Water plant during WW2.

Germany also had the following Heavy Water plants:

# 1) Leuna plant south of Mersberg near Berlin (Harteck/Suess process - codename Stalin Organ)

# 2) Kiel Plant 4 km outside Kiel, wooded area (Dr K Geib’s hydrogen sulphide exchange process)

# 3) Hamburg Plant (possibly near Zeven, Harteck low pressure distilation process)

# 4) Munich Plant (Clusius-Linde, Nernst Distribution Process)

(in recent weeks I have learned they may have been other plants in Germany so there may be others to add to this list)


[B] Plants Outside Germany:[/B]

# 5) Vemork (Haber-Bosch process) Norway

# 6) Saheim (Haber-Bosch process) Norway

# 7) Montecantini plant at Merano, Italy (near Bolzano)


Nazis used the codeword SH.200 for heavy water and SH.220 for Trittium. They built a plant for Trittium after September 1944 in Austria near Melk. There was no other use for Trittium except to provide a Fusion boost for a fissile atomic bomb.