Question: Why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on?

reply to post by tigpoppa


The problem of course with both the original posting in this forum AND the response from the user I am replying to in this section (though I am, in truth replying to everyone involved) is money. That of course is always the root of problems such as these. We all have natural rights, but due to mankind's obsession with printed paper as the solution to everything (financial bills, political contracts.....charmin toilet paper) nobody will do anything for free.
If things WERE made free though, you would have the most greedy and criminal of mankind try to horde it all selfishly anyways, and we'd STILL not be getting what is ours, even in the absence of TPTB.
Of course, this just makes it all the more obvious that at some point in man's history, somebody invented money out of fear that they'd be killed for goods they owned if they should refuse to share. Whether the inventor of money was a scheming trickster, or just a small person who didn't stand a chance otherwise, who's to say.....but rest assured, money is the reason TPTB ever BECAME TPTB in the first place. They didn't invent the problem, they're just it's investors.

Originally posted by neowakko
reply to post by Segador

 

Yea. He's selling it like it's a religion right?

The whole...
"you are special... deep down you are special...." -makes someone feel special.
"Damaged DNA... TPTB being really good and shrouding your vision" -Sympathy, or promote self-pity.
...But there's hope! Hear my words for there's hope in it! - sort of thing.


a religion. but still pretty interesting info.

The way he says "if you want information on me, there is some on the web." and calling the non believers "the herd" all within the first 8 minutes.

It makes him seem like a very large douchebag, almost like those attention whores you see on facebook.

Originally posted by artofjaymz
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

..but rest assured, money is the reason TPTB ever BECAME TPTB in the first place. They didn't invent the problem, they're just it's investors.

Wow. I like this line. Never really heard it being put that way before.

It's kinda like paying for tolls for using the highway isn't it?
Sure we can choose not to use the highway and go through a more difficult road, or we could use it and pay the guys that made it.

Like Collier said, "we're stuck between a rock and a hard place".

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Long time lurker, first time poster... I just caught some BS and needed to speak up...

I would take Mr. Collier more seriously if he didn't quote the story line for Torchwood's Children of Earth where he said some of the aliens wanted our children for their chemicals?

Did anybody else catch that part?




++ LogiCircuit ++

It's kinda absurd to think that just because you were born on this planet you have the right to everything. It's the same thing as those "god-given rights."

Our resources are limited, everything we do has a cost.

Why is there an abundant amount of hostility against Alex Collier? I think this is the first time I've watched a Alex Collier conference(43 min in) & I've yet to find a reason to bash him?

A lot of of what he says matches with sources I've seen/read in the distant and recent past

[edit on 31-8-2010 by la vie]

Originally posted by Romekje
The point is that even though you are free to live FROM the land, you are not free to live ON the land.

Every square inch of our planet has been "claimed" as property by either a private institute or a government, and in order to be allowed to live on that land, you have to fulfill certain obligations.

It's the contract you get born into as soon as your parents sign your birth certificate and state the country (company) you are born in.

Board Games

If anyone has played Monopoly

The TPTB are Also playing a Real Life Pay Day

as we are Still Playing CLUE
of what The Powers That Be Are... ( Suspect)

Romekie is Saying the same thing just in a Global Scale Strategic Board game Well Ancients played Chess Romans did too at the Colosseum but with Real Players it the TPTB is playing this Game Win Lose Repeat

well some Leaders Practiced with board games here is one
Diplomacy

In its catalog, Avalon Hill advertised Diplomacy as John F. Kennedy's[4] and Henry Kissinger's favorite game. Kissinger described it as his favorite in an interview published in a games magazine.[5] American broadcast journalist Walter Cronkite was also reported to be a fan of the game.[6]

Kissinger LOL BilderGroup Man Himself ! Someone Need to Sneak in the
Closets of the White House to see what Board Games They play !

Hey I Wonder if Gorbachev and Ronny Reagan Play some boardgames
as Gorbachev is a Master at chess .. as Reagan was a Political Chess Player

The World is a Board Game LOL

Yeah Im A Little Board i ment Bored LOL

reply to post by Segador


I'd be inclined to agree... I got pretty deep into it because the message itself is interesting. It coincides with much that I have researched and believe (human beings should look at themselves as a species and not a collection of 'races'... there is only 'the human race') as well as what I have just figured out on my own. And since I have, you start to realize that people just making up statements without any backing of physical proof even minute outside of the persons reputation are probably why there are so many easily led eople in the UFO community (for example nobody just burst out laughing when he was talking about time travelers coming back from the future to save us from tyranny... they didnt seem to do a good job in nazi germany and as far as saving people they couldn't time travel back to nazi germany to save the jews did they?).

The interesting paralell that I can see is how similar it is to a religion this guy is talking about. Utilizing cult tactics (like humans are somehow special now? let me guess... a human is the one who made that bunch of sh*t up..) to propagate the idea that we are all special and have special DNA or something? Says who? If that was the case why not come take some of our DNA then be on your way. It seems to rival religion in that sense in the way religion was before it became an institution...

reply to post by die_another_day


Its interesting you have a George Carlin quote in your signature and thats exactly what Carlin believed... Whats absurd is how the values of the indoctrination in our culture tell us the only way society could work is if we have a few people at the top we slave our lives away so they can maintain their leisurely lifestyle while everyone else starves or goes out and has to commit crimes to feed their families.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Who in the F owns the water, the seas, the air, the sky, the dirt - it should belong to all of us - who came along and claimed, "this is mine".

The water... no one is charging you to go to a lake and fill your bucket, or dip your hand into a stream and take a drink, or collect rain water in a barrel..

What you are paying for is the CONVENIENCE of having someone treat it to make sure its clean, have it piped into your house so you have the convenience of it close at hand and don't need to make daily trips to the lake

You are not paying for the water, merely the service

The air... I don't recall ever getting a bill for breathing the air...

The dirt... well any animal on the planet will claim a piece of dirt and mark and protect its territory. Try to move into a cave occupied by mountain lions and see if they understand they can't claim it as theirs... so its a natural part of evolution... claiming your turf.

You can still go many places in the world and in America and just squat on the land... but very few will put up with the hardship that requires

The food... lots of food around, the forests are full of things like pine nuts, wild berries, mushrooms and other edible plants, the fields are filled with herbs, many with medicinal value..

But how many today even took the time to learn what is edible? Dandelions make a great salad Bet ya thought they were weeds. Easy to grow your own food on even a small plot of dirt, or even a balcony in the city.

Go fishing or hunting for meat... perhaps a small fee to ensure you only take your fair share, after all I want fish too, and so do my neighbors

Energy... that too is free... it is relatively easy to get off the grid

A simple black bag laid out in the sun and in a few hours you have enough hot water to take a shower. We do that at camp all the time...

PVC pipes on the roof and a solar powered pump... heats water for pool or other uses

Solar cells... yes there is an initial cost because you are paying someone to make the cells but after that the energy is FREE

Wanna heat your house, buy a wood burning stove... I did. My three trees produce scads of wood annually. You can even cook on it or put a pot on it for humidifier

Cooking... use a fire pit if you have a yard, many available from Lowes or such places

The problem is... most that complain about the cost of living are unprepared and unwilling to give up the conveniences of our modern life



[edit on 31-8-2010 by zorgon]

Nice thought but will never happen thanks

The simple fact is I don't believe that humans will evolve beyond property ownership. You could give everyone in the world a job producing something and make all goods free. Give everyone an adaquate dwelling and equivilant amenities.

Human nature would make one person want to live in a better place. Perofrm a better job. Not work at all. Eat more or better than their neighbors. Keeping up with the Jones's.

As of now everything is produced by someone and all land is owned by someone. The goods and property must be sold. It's not like the early days of America when they simply gave away tracts of land.

Human nature prevents true communism from ever working without a supressive force behind it. And if that force exists then the equality is simply an illusion to begin with.

If you want to live free, not pay taxes and answer to no one. Build yourself a large ship. Live at sea. Build in Antarctica. Build a cabin in the remote wilderness somewhere and just live off the land. Otherwise your beholden to society.

reply to post by doctornamtab


What a brilliant post! Hope everyone here goes over to this other thread you posted.

We're up to around 230 years of utilizing democracy and capitalism and its gotten out of hand and unstable. We're at the mercy of economic oligarchs that use money and food as leverage to wrestle our lives away from us. We've reached the limits of capitalism and what it can do for human society. Its time to move to a more creative, individualized approach to the problem of "how to contribute to the well being of society while still making myself happy?" Free Labor tries to actually provide a choice while maintaining the current system as a voluntary, as opposed to mandatory, employment option.

You'd be surprised how many people would farm their backyards or grow a greenhouse if they had the time and knowledge. The desire is there; to be independent and self sustaining while still being a part of the culture. This was the original goal of capitalism but its monstrous leaders have perverted the ideas of independence and self sustainability into dependence on the economic system. They use ideas like Puritan work ethic and pride in one's work as an attack on "welfare". Basically, they make it shameful to be dependent on the state because they want you dependent on them. Work, withholding food for labor, is how the the rich make us dependent on them and, thus making themselves and their products relevant to society.

The public, you and I, pay taxes to offer free food and shelter to the poor in exchange for nothing. Extended to everyone (not just the wretchedly poor) this "welfare" is freedom to finally become independent. We do it for millions of prisoners and welfare recipeints, why cant we do it for everyone?

doctor, I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this. We do need a new way, what that way is yet, I'm not sure but you hit the nail on the head with your previous post.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Okay ATS members, why in sam hell do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on.

Money is part of most societies. Before that we didn't have to pay anyone but then again we couldn't head over to the grocery store and buy all the food we wanted, we had to chase down mammoths to get our meals.

There are still places in the world where people live like simple hunter-gatherer tribes. So I guess it depends on whether you accept the money system as worth it to get all the luxuries we have or whether you'd rather go back to living off the land and being hunter-gatherers.

Take away society and it's capitalist translation of the basic facts of life and what you have is survival. It's never free, period. Give thanks to whatever you give thanks to that you have a society where even the weak and the feeble minded can find a way to eek out an exsistence. Pretty soon the ship is gonna hit the fan, and among the survivors I suppose there'll be a few of those that complained endlessly about the high cost of everything who will remember how lucky they were to live in a society with some semblance of order. Take away the high cost of everything and you got anarchy, survival of the fittest. People better wise up, it's in our genes to be hunter gatherers and we might be getting back to that pretty soon, for the ones who can't adapt it's evolution's big recycle bin. Human race has been living way beyond it's means and a reality check is just up around the next bend.

After all, it's only money.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Who in the F owns the water, the seas, the air, the sky, the dirt - it should belong to all of us - who came along and claimed, "this is mine".

The water... no one is charging you to go to a lake and fill your bucket, or dip your hand into a stream and take a drink, or collect rain water in a barrel..

What you are paying for is the CONVENIENCE of having someone treat it to make sure its clean, have it piped into your house so you have the convenience of it close at hand and don't need to make daily trips to the lake

You are not paying for the water, merely the service

The air... I don't recall ever getting a bill for breathing the air...

The dirt... well any animal on the planet will claim a piece of dirt and mark and protect its territory. Try to move into a cave occupied by mountain lions and see if they understand they can't claim it as theirs... so its a natural part of evolution... claiming your turf.

You can still go many places in the world and in America and just squat on the land... but very few will put up with the hardship that requires

The food... lots of food around, the forests are full of things like pine nuts, wild berries, mushrooms and other edible plants, the fields are filled with herbs, many with medicinal value..

But how many today even took the time to learn what is edible? Dandelions make a great salad

Bet ya thought they were weeds. Easy to grow your own food on even a small plot of dirt, or even a balcony in the city.

Go fishing or hunting for meat... perhaps a small fee to ensure you only take your fair share, after all I want fish too, and so do my neighbors

Energy... that too is free... it is relatively easy to get off the grid

A simple black bag laid out in the sun and in a few hours you have enough hot water to take a shower. We do that at camp all the time...

PVC pipes on the roof and a solar powered pump... heats water for pool or other uses

Solar cells... yes there is an initial cost because you are paying someone to make the cells but after that the energy is FREE

Wanna heat your house, buy a wood burning stove... I did. My three trees produce scads of wood annually. You can even cook on it or put a pot on it for humidifier

Cooking... use a fire pit if you have a yard, many available from Lowes or such places

The problem is... most that complain about the cost of living are unprepared and unwilling to give up the conveniences of our modern life



[edit on 31-8-2010 by zorgon]

Brilliant point. Not really sure why this is in the Alien/UFO forum, but the OP posted and hour 43 minute video from Project Camelot, c'mon...almost 2 hours? Next time please let us know what time in the video your topic comes up?

Basically you're saying everything should be for free? Or we live off the land and the life expectancy rate drops dramatically?

There used to be a barter system, now we have currency...what is your point?

I'm guessing we "pay" to live on this planet, because at one point the strongest men beat up the weak ones, and named themselves King? Something like that?

I understand a little bit, what is the point of barter or money...

People should work together, all the resources for everything we have, came from Earth...

Or did they....

But maybe you pay for labor, not everyone can build a car, what can you offer to the person who built you the car, or the people that built you the car? A thank you?

Maybe instead of a car, everyone works together to build a spaceship!!

I have a question, even without money, are people still selfish? Can the world unite and work together? There are still indigenous people all over the world that practice working together as a whole community.

Maybe we pay for things because slavery no longer exists in most parts of the world.

This question can easily be answered with a bunch of different reasons, I'm missing the catch, and the Alien connection...

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
It is all about control and those that are posting without viewing the video are allowing themselves to be controlled.

No, a different system is possible.

Long ago, our ancestors, the ones that left Europe decided to change things.

Where has that spirit to seek something better, to think outside the box to try something different gone.

No, things are not fine the way they currently are.

Again, please watch the video before you respond.

From the video: Food, the growing of food; water… Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the technology to have all the drinking water we want – just build desalination plants. We have all the water we need. But they won’t spend a dime on any of that, because if you don’t have water, they have control over you.

We have so much technology. We have free energy on the Earth. Tesla did it in 1902. We know it exists. Okay?

A hydrogen engine in a car was built in 1955 and did 110 laps at the Indianapolis 500 Race Track. The plans were bought by Gulf-Western Oil and never seen from again. That’s 1955.

It's all about the few controlling the many because the many just won't take their blinders off.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]

one suggestion would be Economics 101. if you dont want to be controlled and live off of barter good luck.. besides if you want to desalinate and filter the water from whatever source no one is stopping you. it`s not about control as it`s about efficiency. if you were left to your own devices you would have to not only produce your own food which would be relatively easy, but provide your own so called "public goods"- government`s domain- for example build your own missile system because someone is always out to get you (i believe reason many are on this site). or consider this- would this be possible to make transactions on the Internet without some government regulations? would you be 100% sure your money goes where it should and fetches you what it should if you were to buy something over the Innernet? how about the patent system? if you were to invent something and worked day and night and someone came along, took your idea, made bucks off of it without asking you or paying royalty wouldnt you be outraged? patent system in place guaranteed by your gummint makes sure it wont happen. in fact explosion of innovation the world enjoys today was/is due to patents. all that tech you are talking about didnt come from nowhere- someone worked his behind off to come up with that. it`s that person`s right to charge you for that. and you say "we have technology and how come it`s not free?" but let`s leave gummint alone and talk about the world where everything is communal. with current amount of population and the stage of development of the world you would have to be jack of all trades. that is build your own integrated circuit for your computers, implement your own protocols to deliver your posts to this site, treat your own tumors, design your own IPods, sew your own condoms, pave your own roads etc.

reply to post by tigpoppa


exactly, a friend's aunt and uncle have a home built into a hillside here in ohio that is completely solar and they recieve checks from duke energy. want free food? learn to hunt, fish, and garden.

Originally posted by xtcsx
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Its interesting you have a George Carlin quote in your signature and thats exactly what Carlin believed... Whats absurd is how the values of the indoctrination in our culture tell us the only way society could work is if we have a few people at the top we slave our lives away so they can maintain their leisurely lifestyle while everyone else starves or goes out and has to commit crimes to feed their families.

Is not about slavery, is not about a top few, is about work, almost everything must be worked, and when you work you spent resources, time, strength, so, why somebody would work free for you?

Do u really think if that people doesnt work for free is because they are indoctrinated?

Want free electricity? well, take a electricity plant from a tree, want clothes? take them from the trees, want food? hunt, fish and take from the trees, want a computer? take one from a tree, want a car? take a car from a tree.


[edit on 31-8-2010 by MonteroReal]

because some were born to steal others
money is the best way to do that
the church have done that
now the government is doing that to enrich some rich people pockets
if at least they would do reall LOGIC good stuff with it
i would agree to pay any tax
but since Irak and Afghanistan costed almost 3 trillions dollars
while people are dying of famine in the streets
it disgust me to pay tax
they have stolen our dreamed futur because they wasted trillion of dollars in the military budjet ...

[edit on 8/31/2010 by Ben81]