Question: Why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on?

i strongly agree.
their has been has been ways to do things without cost/pollution/hastle.
nice and simple.
PLEASE WATCH VIDEO!

We are not really paying anything. We are just exchanging our goods for the goods that the other person produces.

In summary, we are not really paying for anything, we are just exchanging goods.

It is a misnomer to think that we are paying for something.

Our modern economic system may have come to a point which may be too complicated...

but nothing really has changed from now to 2000 years ago...

We humans are still the same. We work, and we trade for things that we want.

If we don't pay, then we all must be kings with slaves!

story of stuff is also a cool watch....

reply to post by mcrom901

The reason it’s a system in crisis is it’s a linear system being run on a finite planet and you cannot run a linear system on a finite planet indefinitely.

Thank you for sharing this real eye opening and educational video mcrom901

reply to post by latEsleepeR


Excellent post. Nice to know there are others that can think outside the box and see other possiblities.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


cheers.... glad you liked it....

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by wasco2
Ummm, no, Woody Guthrie was a devout communist and committed to doing his part to create a communist United States. He would best be described as one of Stalin's "useful idiots".

Clear-cut and decisively divisive.

You missed the entire point of my post by pointing to the personal beliefs of the singer, missing out that the song meant something, the song is the point.

Not the singer.

Yah, realized that after I posted. My point is the song was written and performed to further Guthries communist agenda. It is nothing more than communist propaganda designed to promote the idea that everything belongs to everyone. That policy of communal ownership is one of the main reason communist countries fail so miserably.

Well, white man speak with forked tongue, seriously wasco2.

Most of the land, was stolen, taken by force, and or swindled from the Native Americans.

Well, no, most of it was in fact bought. You don't even have to read the book, just the review will give you an idea, but what you were taught is wrong:

www.amazon.com...

Private property rights only came about because of federal laws.

Dude!! What have you been smoking?

Private property rights far, far, predate the United States. As I said earlier, private property rights are one of the cornerstones of our civilization and date from the beginning of it. There is no point in settling down and building permanent dwellings to till the land unless you can be guaranteed the right to keep it and the fruits of your labor.

Pure communism was tried very early in America by the settlers in Jamestown, VA in 1607. The predictable result was famine that killed nearly 2/3 of the original settlers. When they had no stake in the land or what it produced, the original settlers saw little reason to work. It wasn't until a new governor arrived in 1611 and did away with the communist system that the colony began to prosper. He gave each settler 3 acres of land and imposed a fixed tax of 2 1/2 barrels of corn. When the settlers were allowed to keep the majority of what they produced and use or trade it as they saw fit they had incentive to work the land and production vastly increased.

also... what it takes to be a human....

Sometimes I wonder how some of you get out of bed in the morning.

Seriously.

>>"Why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on?"

That is the dumbest question I have yet to see on ATS and I will tell you why.


1. You were in a structure while composing this thread.
2. You are composing this on a computer.
3. The computer is connected to your ISP.
4. Your ISP is connected to a backbone.
~ ~ earlier today ~~
5. When you got up this morning you (most likely) eat a breakfast you did not hunt and kill.
6. You also probably had coffee that was picked and processed by a South American
7. The water you are putting in the coffee is cleaned and brought to your home by pipes installed and maintained by others.
8. The urine you released into that bowl is carried by pipes to a plant that cleans it fo reuse.
9. The electricity you use to power your appliances (including the computer) was designed, built and is maintained by others.
10. The roads, schools, malls, theatres, and everything you see were all made and are maintained by others.

Should I go on?

Your MP3 Player? The Music you listen too? Your fave TV show? This website?
Should all this be FREE? Is this what you mean by "pay to live on this planet"??
Because I have yet to get a bill for being alive.


Oh, do you just mean, your food and water?
Do you believe that being alive gives you the right to resources?


It's legal to hunt, it's legal to drink from a stream or the ocean. Go for it. It's free.
It's also free to fish on the ocean, go make a boat out of sticks and go fishing. Did you know there are no restrictions on personal fishing? Need water and not near a lake? Boil the ocean water to remove the salt.
Grow some vegetables and you'll have a salad.

Now, don't expect an education, access to infrastructure or protection from the elements, the wild or fellow humans because that's not "free".

You guys are SO gullible it isn't even funny, you latch onto silly ideas and never take into account the reality of the situation. There is always a "bad guy" always "TPTB" always a boogeyman. Slackers ALWAYS whine about not getting enough and inventing false boots on their necks.


Bottom line is that you do NOT pay to live on the planet, you pay civilized humans to live like a civilized human.
Other people's work all day to make your life easier so it makes their lives easier. All this bull crap about "one planet, one person lets all get together.."

What the hell do you think we are doing now?
Farmers grow food, take it to market and YOU eat it. People develop products and services for each other and YOU partake. How is that not a great system?

Some of you are such whiny entitled humans...

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by daddio
These corporations pay for everything because they use the resources and the roads FOR PROFIT AND GAIN. Do you use them in that way, and if so, how do you profit?

Are you saying that you don't use the roads? Then you probably don't pay a whole lot of the cost of their upkeep, since a fair amount of it comes from gasoline and commercial use taxes.

If you do use the roads, then you profit from them in the same way that a company does -- it benefits you. Instead of taking an hour to walk to work, you can drive in ten minutes. That's an hour you'll never get back if you have to hoof it.

Even if you don't drive, the bus you take, the UPS, Domino's and postal service trucks that deliver junk to your house, the food wholesaler that brings food to your local co-op, they all use the roads, and you continue to benefit.

Please read your post again, I DO NOT "USE" the roadways for profit and gain, please explain to me in reality what that means to you?

I use them as a natural right, whether they be dirt or grass or pavement. It is your natural born right of movement and that can never be taxed/restricted or taken away. It is thinking like this that YOU post that causes the most problems. Ignorance at it's best.

Some people ride bicycles, some people walk, you can walk anywhere, in the grass, through a field, and yet you expect these people who walk to suffer the taxes of those that are SUPPOSED TO PAY THEM? The Corporations are supposed to pay for everything, and they pay for nothing, THAT IS A FACT.

It is how the rich get richer and we get screwed. Wake up already man.

Read your states constitution, not that you will understand it obviously, but read the first article of the Bill of Rights in it. What does it say?

Who is the "State"?

reply to post by MonteroReal


Thats not the point... its not a matter of working for free... why should we have to work in the first place? Think of all the jobs, the meaningless drudgery that people go through every day when it could be simply automated. We can automate the majority of the low paying crap jobs that are out there now. McDonalds? There is already a fully automated diner in Berlin... Bartenders? How long have we had coffee dispensers? Job Obsolescence as a result of technology is being prevented so we can have people pushing the broom of our economy. Thats the only reason why these jobs exist. Already we have machines replacing cashiers in grocery stores... why not just get rid of all the human labor and automate that task? So why don't we? Because Bartenders, window washers, cashiers and a myriad of other low paying jobs are necessary to continue our economy. The cyclical consumption. Take a look at the automation we have even in agriculture and how we could make that into ALL agriculture if it was planned that way.

Let a machine do it and start making self repairing machines... there goes your need to 'pay' for services...

reply to post by xtcsx


Positive ETs do so work. But not the way we do. An advanced equal positive system as opposed our very negative, slave one, is like this, for many planets.

There is no money. ALL have instrinsic rights to land and resources, but, they are far beyond dog eat dog, and primitive sovereigns duking it out. They live with far less regulations than us but far more advanced love and consciousness, not to mention health for many. Nonetheless, 50% women and 50 % men in counsels, local to planetary, like jury duty, (there is no one president or captain) with all being called to help organize things and manage, however no one is forced. An incredible intelligent education system, that is all current knowledge, transparent, nothing held back from the people, the same eager kids, trying on many roles and trying to decide what they want to be when they grow up.

All drudgery is mecahnised. All people can retrain. Everyone can give and take, but no one is forced, for some they may only take for a period, health, children, and keep to themselves more, but very few chose that, for they're very responsible and have pushed their consciousness into psi and telepathy.

They don't just build their homes on choice land, all landmarks such as lakes and rivers, and pristine parklike areas are shared and equal, yet beauty is considered essential for health of all as well.

There are many choices and options, and people retrain when they wish.

Hobbies, crafts, artworks, laboratories, extra interests there are many things equivalent to guilds with tools, equipment, instruction no how, and anyway can choose and re-choose as often as they wish
.
No one is forced, yet no one is homeless without substence, and most contribute, working as much as 4 hours, several days a week for the common good, but having abundance, bounty and beauty, in the receiving end.

This is the opposite of what a pyramid system works like, this is the inverted pryamid.





[edit on 2-9-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by gormly


U have Said

It's legal to hunt, it's legal to drink from a stream or the ocean. Go for it. It's free. It's also free to fish on the ocean, go make a boat out of sticks and go fishing. Did you know there are no restrictions on personal fishing? Need water and not near a lake? Boil the ocean water to remove the salt. Grow some vegetables and you'll have a salad.

IN AMERICA

1 Yes Its Legal to Hunt BUT... You Need a License (Paying a Fee )
in doing so and a Training Course for the Know How To hunt and how to clean the Animal that you do Hunt You can always Argue with a Ranger or a ECO Environmental Conservation Police Officers About it
that you need to hunt in ONLY Certain Seasons All in which you pay a Certain Fee to the State or Government If you are Caught in any of these you will pay a high Price Fine Refuse to pay the Fine can lead you to Jail The Only Exception you have if you Hunt on your OWNED LAND and even this has Limitations .

2 Its not Legal to drink in JUST ANY stream as again, The Ownership of the Property May be Owned by Someone else that a Stream might Run through it Try to Jump Over a Fence of a Restricted or POSTED Area and try to Hunt or Drink in a Stream or River.. Its ONLY Legal If they the Government , State or the Individual Say it is !Unless you have Permission to do so ..

3 Well you can make a Boat Tho. Every State Has restrictions the the Process of Licensing it if Motorized and the Rules and Regulations of Operating it .
Fishing its the same thing as Hunting Rules and Regulation and you can Only Fish that is particular Fish in certain Time Frames catch a BASS
when its not Bass Season you be Paying over a 100 Dollars for Each Fish you catch... by an ECO for example .. that there I would say takes the kink out of Personal Fishing

The Only way you can Avoid this if you Own a Large Amount of land and have a Stream that Flows with in it then you will be paying Land Tax up the wazoo ! and you then you'll find out that your in this Constant Loop of paying to Live

Unless you do it Illegally or Live On The Reservation ( Native American Indian Land )


ohh here a site of the NY State Hunting Regulations

www.dec.ny.gov...

Hunting Regulations
www.dec.ny.gov...

Hunting & Fishing Isnt Free! In NY State Unless on the Reservation

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Wolfenz


The right to sustain life INCLUDES the right to gather food. YES, you can hunt and fish WITHOUT a license.

A license confers a privilege to do something that without the license would be unlawful. Again, WHO IS THE STATE?

Answer, YOU and ME. So....did I surrender my right to gather food? NO

Prove up your claim. Show me the constitutional authority from which DNR agents and the legislature draw their power, please.

They get the authority from OUR consent. I am not in business, therefore I do not NEED a license. I must abide by the "regulations" to make it fair for all, I must be responsible for my actions, but that is where it ends. I have hunted and fished for years without a license and I travel without one too. No registration on my auto either. It is private property.

Ignorance is truly bliss is it not?

Remember, the "state" can legislate ONLY FOR the people and NOT TO the people. They may not restrict anything, only regulate, no license required as a license is a restriction that gives one an advantage over another.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
who came along and claimed, "this is mine".

Simple - the guy with the biggest gun of course.

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

The right to sustain life INCLUDES the right to gather food. YES, you can hunt and fish WITHOUT a license.

A license confers a privilege to do something that without the license would be unlawful. Again, WHO IS THE STATE?

Answer, YOU and ME. So....did I surrender my right to gather food? NO

Prove up your claim. Show me the constitutional authority from which DNR agents and the legislature draw their power, please.

They get the authority from OUR consent. I am not in business, therefore I do not NEED a license. I must abide by the "regulations" to make it fair for all, I must be responsible for my actions, but that is where it ends. I have hunted and fished for years without a license and I travel without one too. No registration on my auto either. It is private property.

Ignorance is truly bliss is it not?

Remember, the "state" can legislate ONLY FOR the people and NOT TO the people. They may not restrict anything, only regulate, no license required as a license is a restriction that gives one an advantage over another.

Either you Live Outside the United States
Please Do Hunt in Fish IN New York Sate see the Hunting Regulations and Law Enforcement in my last Post Please thanks
Ignorance is Bliss yeah tell that to the ECO of NEW YORK STATE IN America

Here Ill post it again this is ONLY New York State I wouldnt Know about Other States as i would hve to do some research in all 50 States

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) w

Regulations
www.dec.ny.gov...

Permits and Licenses
www.dec.ny.gov...

Permitts
www.dec.ny.gov...

Regulations and Enforcement
www.dec.ny.gov...


Unless your American Indian and skipp to different reservations
the Above Would NOT really apply on the Reservation within the Reservation Treaty of Course

if it is Private Property Claimed Ownership you still have Limitation of Seasonal Hunting and Fishing

and yes you can have a car on you own Property Unregistered Uninsured with No Plates
but as soon you put that Vehicle on the State Owned Land & Roads
then youll will have a problem .

Example
My Uncle went on the road into his other part of Property he owned probably 1/8 of a mile at his (Farm) so he can park his car and put a for sale sign on it .. at the same he did this As a State Trooper went by No less and he got Nailed with No Registration No Plates and Uninsured He paid a Hefty fine big time and had his License Restricted for a year
thats what Happens when you have state Roads that is divides your Property

Listen im just going by what i know about New York State Law Codes and Regulations and the Experience i had .. im not here to make a Unnecessary Argument But the State loves Making these Law to make MONEY beside the State Taxes... & Town or City Taxes

I do not know what State , Providence or Country you live in
the only ones i heard that had less restrictions than most states was
New Hampshire & Tennessee from what i can remember...


[edit on 2-9-2010 by Wolfenz]

Woah woah woah.

Why does this man have the mindset that he knows all of this. Orion wars? Hybrid leaders?

He has no idea. He talks about this big global change with in a year and its been just about that time. I still buy food at the market on the daily basis and I am low class.

Originally posted by daddio

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by daddio
These corporations pay for everything because they use the resources and the roads FOR PROFIT AND GAIN. Do you use them in that way, and if so, how do you profit?

Are you saying that you don't use the roads? Then you probably don't pay a whole lot of the cost of their upkeep, since a fair amount of it comes from gasoline and commercial use taxes.

If you do use the roads, then you profit from them in the same way that a company does -- it benefits you. Instead of taking an hour to walk to work, you can drive in ten minutes. That's an hour you'll never get back if you have to hoof it.

Even if you don't drive, the bus you take, the UPS, Domino's and postal service trucks that deliver junk to your house, the food wholesaler that brings food to your local co-op, they all use the roads, and you continue to benefit.

Please read your post again, I DO NOT "USE" the roadways for profit and gain, please explain to me in reality what that means to you?

I use them as a natural right, whether they be dirt or grass or pavement. It is your natural born right of movement and that can never be taxed/restricted or taken away. It is thinking like this that YOU post that causes the most problems. Ignorance at it's best.

You have a very weird sense of entitlement if you think that you have a "natural right" to use a road, and you seem to require money to be part of "gain". Roads cost money. If you want to use them, pay for them, you've no inherent right to use them.

Some people ride bicycles, some people walk, you can walk anywhere, in the grass, through a field, and yet you expect these people who walk to suffer the taxes of those that are SUPPOSED TO PAY THEM? The Corporations are supposed to pay for everything, and they pay for nothing, THAT IS A FACT.

No, that is a naive delusion. Roads are paid for mostly through gasoline and use taxes. Transportation companies pay taxes on gasoline commensurate with how much they use, which is way more than you do (obviously), they pay license fees and use taxes, as well. If you walk everywhere, you pay none of those.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, bub. Not for the corporations, not for you.

Originally posted by xtcsx
reply to post by MonteroReal

 

Thats not the point... its not a matter of working for free... why should we have to work in the first place? Think of all the jobs, the meaningless drudgery that people go through every day when it could be simply automated. We can automate the majority of the low paying crap jobs that are out there now. McDonalds? There is already a fully automated diner in Berlin... Bartenders? How long have we had coffee dispensers? Job Obsolescence as a result of technology is being prevented so we can have people pushing the broom of our economy. Thats the only reason why these jobs exist. Already we have machines replacing cashiers in grocery stores... why not just get rid of all the human labor and automate that task? So why don't we? Because Bartenders, window washers, cashiers and a myriad of other low paying jobs are necessary to continue our economy. The cyclical consumption. Take a look at the automation we have even in agriculture and how we could make that into ALL agriculture if it was planned that way.

Let a machine do it and start making self repairing machines... there goes your need to 'pay' for services...

A machine must be build, machine need alloys, plastic, circuits, etc etc, so they will have a cost, and that cost will be charge into the products, machines need software, machines cant make software, must be a human, that is more cost, so ok, lets make machines and a lot of machines.

What give me the right to have the products made with machines for free?

Why should the makers of the machines invest work, time, etc etc in creating and machine and after that make and make and make products for free?

Oh cool, self repairing machines, better, lets make replicators like in Star Trek, you see, the only problem is that i cant change the economy thinking in things that doesnt exist in this moment.

And we have to work because if we take we must give, dont be a parasite.

Please read your post again, I DO NOT "USE" the roadways for profit and gain, please explain to me in reality what that means to you? I use them as a natural right, whether they be dirt or grass or pavement. It is your natural born right of movement and that can never be taxed/restricted or taken away. It is thinking like this that YOU post that causes the most problems. Ignorance at it's best. Some people ride bicycles, some people walk, you can walk anywhere, in the grass, through a field, and yet you expect these people who walk to suffer the taxes of those that are SUPPOSED TO PAY THEM? The Corporations are supposed to pay for everything, and they pay for nothing, THAT IS A FACT. It is how the rich get richer and we get screwed. Wake up already man. Read your states constitution, not that you will understand it obviously, but read the first article of the Bill of Rights in it. What does it say? Who is the "State"?

Your natural right is a road made of dirt or grass because it can be made by use, not a roadway made of pavement, your natural right is to walk trough a forest, a mountain, not to a road made in them.

If you use a road of pavement your car or bike will suffer less damage, the time will be less too, so thats a profit/gain for you.




[edit on 2-9-2010 by MonteroReal]