Question: Why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on?

You know what really makes me angry about Alex Collier? Its the way he uses psychology rather than the weight of his evidence to back up his claims. The question " Why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on?" is a great question, dont get me wrong, but it has nothing to do with the subject matter. The subject he speaks about is SUPPOSED to be about alien life, UFO , and so on. To be frank, I couldnt give a dying mans last breath about the politics of the alien, all I want to know from a person claiming contact is when, how, who saw it, and where are the photographs, the reams of data any sufficiently intelligent person would record on dictaphones, with video cams, with samples from aboard ships, and perhaps even from the aliens themselves.
This guy however uses psychology in order to make his message (which actualy ends up having almost diddly squat to do with aliens) seem totaly righteous, and thats the most maddening thing. Most of what he says about the way humanity lives is accurate as far as I can tell but I have two problems with that:

A) No one asked the fat useless sack of crap to examine the human condition and give a report on it to a bunch of aging hippies , then circulate the astoundingly bad video of it round the world.

B) He uses that accurate assesment of the planetary populous and the way it lives, to make his otherwise unsupported (possibly unsupportable claims) seem more plausible. Sort of like this "The worlds in a terrible state and everyone hates on eachother and unless we stop we are all going to die, which is why we should adopt the method of the alien , horray for 'holographic' systems of government! " .

Hes using the truth to promote lies, using peoples unhappiness with the way the world turns to lever open gaps in thier intellectual reasoning, enough that he can start a clan of blindly sheepish people, people who can be relied upon to pay him to talk, and pay for the DVD of him talking.
Heres an idea Alex, if your information is so godamned real an important, why dont you hand it ALL out for free? Why dont you get your alien buddies to explain what the hell a holographic government is, because here on earth that term has NO MEANING AT ALL YOU IGNORANT S.O.B.
Hes nothing but slime with a big mouth and an adoring audience.

Originally posted by xtcsx
You are confusing societal conditioning in relation to the toddler who says 'mine mine mine'. Not one child in the history of children has ever said "My AIR! MINE MINE MINE".

That's because there's no one threatening to take it away. If there was, he'd certainly object to it.

I think your definition of greed isn't accurate either. Greed isnt getting 'as much as you can while its around' because these people were nomadic and you cant kill an entire heard of wooly mammoths because your not going to be able to carry it all. These nomadic people took what they NEEDED and used all of it. And you are labeling lazy what would be considered 'efficiency'.

You say po-ta-toe, I say po-tah-toe, and I think that you are going a little too far ahead in time for the greed part -- as I said, in tribal groups, this stuff worked out a little better, I'm thinking more of the times when there was a glimmer of intelligence that sorted out scarcity of resources and times of plenty.

However, regardless of perspective, I think that this method of collection wasn't particularly efficient: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
This whole video is very interesting, but this one question at 38:30 really got to me.

Okay ATS members, why in sam hell do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on.

Who in the F owns the water, the seas, the air, the sky, the dirt - it should belong to all of us - who came along and claimed, "this is mine".

The human goons, the ones in our government and military that have sold the rest of us out need to be pushed aside.

We, united as one need to take back our lives and the life of our planet.

You've answered your own question quite clearly. Like anything else, we pay for our security, freedom, and luxury for cheap resources. I highly doubt you've been outside of the states in European or even Asian countries. Otherwise you would realize the vast difference in thought existing between us all and the desire to accumulate wealth and power for one's own self-preservation and ultimately self-actualization. Animals, plants, and all sorts of life fight for space, for resources. If you have a hard time believing me, take a closer look at these creatures, ourselves included.

I was like you once, I wanted everyone to just get along and live peacefully, but our views on this planet are too radical. We stand divided and emotionally we are weak. Until proper management of resources via government action is attained, we will continue to have weak-minded individuals. Plants without proper soil nutrients will grow thin or dry. It is the same with us. And in such conditions, where our basic needs cannot be met it is very likely that we will never reach our full potential--or blossom.

Conflict is what life thrives on. From the big bang, to the creation of a planet, to our race called humans. From wars shaping great empires, and religions toppling them, we have come a long way, but our basic nature has changed little. Conflict. It is even the major recurring element in all great stories. Whether it is Luke fighting his father, or Jesus fighting the Roman Empire. The fight between good and evil or merely just a fight with words, swords, inner character turmoil, or even acts of nature recounting our creation. What it really comes down to is forces of nature vying for control.

And so let me put this quite clearly, there will never be absolute peace in all forms of conflict. Perhaps one day we can live peacefully and rest our arms with one another, but eventually some other race will want to conquer due to an intellectual insult or misunderstanding. So to become little hippies living on the land and forgetting the rest of the Universe is quite foolish and lends us open to death, slavery, torture, or worse.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I'm reading what you have to say, and coming back to check out your comments. It's all a nice idea but unrealistic. you say people need to get their heads out of the sand, that we need to demand changes. Well...times have changed. Technology has changed. We as people have changed. Nothing is free, and say all of a sudden we didn't have to pay for our necessities, you think this will bring peace...unite us? It would be chaos. I'm willing to bet you have water come out of your shower, and lights to turn on, and drive in a car. So when you have to go fetch your own water to clean yourself, or go kill some animals to feed your family, or make sure you have enough fire wood to keep you warm through the winter, then you will realize that having these things for free will change your whole life. I'm not saying someone can't do it. I'm asking, can you? I think you need to get your head out of the sand. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but in our lifetime, we are gonna have to work to get what we need. It is reality.

reply to post by adjensen


First of all with the risk of sounding derogatory I have never been to a renaissance fair and have no frame of reference as to what a 'heel' of bread is... So for the purpose of this I will just assume a heel is something like a 'loaf' of bread.

Who needs an incentive to stop eating bread? How about you are full? The fact that someone would need to stuff themselves with 2 instead of 1 comes from the mindset that bread is somehow scarce... its not. Now granted I am sure the people that MAKE the bread would love to promote the idea that bread resources are scarce... but thats only because it allows them to justify a 20 - 30% price increase and similarly profits. There could never be an abundance of bread because people that make bread make less money. And you can see that across the board.

Your argument sounds scarily similar to the arguments Thomas Malthus was preaching... the exponential growth of population and the arithmatic growth of food wil lead to massive starvation people dying... blah blah blah. Malthus didnt account for technology and automation which given our caloric output vs the energy we produce in most things as a result of technology has gone from about 1,400 calories to something over 30,000 per year.

Now this is a paradigm shift that most people cant wrap their heads around. It goes against most social and cultural memes that we have been raised to think to be correct. All thats needed is to question the integrity of the system itself to understand that its at best not sustainable and at worst a criminal form of indentured servitude. This world we are discussing is not for us... Americans today are too effing stupid to grasp a concept like 'help somebody other than yourself' or whatever narcissistic and self aggrandizing programming they allow to run through their empty heads. This is a world for our children or our grand children to inherit. If they can break through the tyranny of thought that is that somehow says we are all different and we should keep fighting amongst ourselves because we are from one land-mass on this world or another... or to commit horrible unspeakable acts to one another because someone told them too, or someone told them that brown people or yellow people werent actually people.

It's like taxes. We need to pay the government in order for roads, schools, hospitals, police/fire stations, and among other things to get built.

If we want clean purified water, we need to pay so the companies can actually present it to us.

Nothing is free. If that was the case, nothing would get done.

Originally posted by xtcsx
reply to post by adjensen

 

First of all with the risk of sounding derogatory I have never been to a renaissance fair and have no frame of reference as to what a 'heel' of bread is... So for the purpose of this I will just assume a heel is something like a 'loaf' of bread.

lol, sorry. The "heel" is the end piece of a loaf, I used it as an example because I really like them, but you only get two pieces in a loaf, along with 20 "non-heels". The point is not "eating", but rather "wasting." If I didn't have to pay for bread, I might consider picking up a loaf every day to get my heels, and throwing the rest in the bin.

(I probably wouldn't do that, but you see the point, I hope.)

Malthus didnt account for technology and automation which given our caloric output vs the energy we produce in most things as a result of technology has gone from about 1,400 calories to something over 30,000 per year.

However, as I pointed out, resources are finite. Sure, we can become more efficient, and produce more and more per erg, but that's not sustainable forever. Eventually you'll reach a tipping point, where you simply cannot keep up with demand, and that's when a lot of bad stuff is going to happen.

Charging for this stuff slows the process, by making people like me be less wasteful with our loaves of bread, but unfettered population growth, while we remain fettered to this planet, will eventually end in tears.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Pre-Paid
Pre-paid is very simple. The entire economy is pre-paid. Look at it this way: We have a car sitting on a dealer’s lot. You walk up to buy the car. Does the dealer ever tell you "I am glad you are going to buy this car because we have to find out how we are going to pay for this car to be built." No is the answer you would get, but that is exactly what they are doing when you go to the bank to get a loan. When do they ever build something and then talk about how they are going to finance it to be built. The product was paid for when the contract was put in place to collect the industrial recourses through the Army Corp of Engineers, EPA, DOT, and OSHA in Flint, Michigan to build it. Even more precisely, the item was paid for when the census did a per-capita poll to identify how much money those agencies should put into the economy based on our productivity, (unfortunately take a quick look at Marxism and Keynesian Economics to make a connection with your worth and your previous status). Now everybody with a head (per capita) raise your hand. Good they loaned against you to finance the operation, that is the "Principal Account." Making the item pre-paid for the acceptor. This is another reason why you are the principal. The principal reason you are Pre-Paid is because Christ's acceptance of the sins in the Garden of Gethsemane and His death on the cross, created the Pre-Payment of all your liabilities both temporal and spiritual because they are inseparable because I wasn't here two thousand years ago but My sins were pre-paid on the condition that I accept the Redeemer. You are the source of economic production being the principal and your interest accruing from you i.e. a per-capita census statistics was pledged as the collateral to be the sponsor of the monetary systems' credit. That is why when interest that accrues from the principal gets returned (tax returned) to the principal, there is a decrease in tax liability (a deduction). The vendor is paying his taxes to you. That is why it is a tax matter. Tax is just a return of the interest to the principal.

There will be a lot of bunk posted here, but TPTB know that WE own everything and when we all come to realize that and claim our property the world over, they are done. The scam is over folks, wake up to the theft of your Divinity and your Dominion.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
It's like taxes. We need to pay the government in order for roads, schools, hospitals, police/fire stations, and among other things to get built.

If we want clean purified water, we need to pay so the companies can actually present it to us.

Nothing is free. If that was the case, nothing would get done.

This is exactly what is wrong in the world, people have been educated by the Public Fool System into believing this crap, corporations are GIVEN the PRIVILEGE to exist by OUR PERMISSION. These corporations pay for everything because they use the resources and the roads FOR PROFIT AND GAIN. Do you use them in that way, and if so, how do you profit?

Sad people believe this crap. We owe nothing. WE have all the power and authority. Responsibility and accountability are the main things most people lack or do not understand.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by daddio]

reply to post by adjensen


I would agree... but I would like to point out that we are no longer tribal societies any longer. Even though we spent more time at that stage and can still feel the effects of whatever biological traits have made us more efficient in this manner it still is non-existant and we have the power to change it.

Not sure how links work on here but this is worth watching if you still arent sure.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by daddio
These corporations pay for everything because they use the resources and the roads FOR PROFIT AND GAIN. Do you use them in that way, and if so, how do you profit?

Are you saying that you don't use the roads? Then you probably don't pay a whole lot of the cost of their upkeep, since a fair amount of it comes from gasoline and commercial use taxes.

If you do use the roads, then you profit from them in the same way that a company does -- it benefits you. Instead of taking an hour to walk to work, you can drive in ten minutes. That's an hour you'll never get back if you have to hoof it.

Even if you don't drive, the bus you take, the UPS, Domino's and postal service trucks that deliver junk to your house, the food wholesaler that brings food to your local co-op, they all use the roads, and you continue to benefit.

We take everything for granted, we believe that somehow things will be the same one way or the other.
With naive eyes we just browse through the world, turning our heads when the terrible truth jumps from the flowers in our gardens...

People please!
I haven't been on this planet for long, but of course I can tell that things have changed from when I was a child, no doubts cross my mind when people say things have to change or else we wont be here much longer.

There where more trees, the food tasted better, my work was paid much more better, dozens of wildlife where still around when i was but a kid, you can ague and get as angry as you can, but there is no denying, things have changed for the worse, we get less for our work, we are treated like cattle, and are manipulated like blind children, you may be doing OK, or might have struck gold, great, use that power now to survive, and prepare, but for the rest of the world, in any country, the ship is going down.

As Mr C. tells in the video, everyone knows the government is corrupt, and that we poison the land and the water and the air, and soon, outer space. The system is designed to maintain not to progress in all ways, but what do we actually do about it? so you say, nothing can be done, that's the way it is, and it will as long as we believe it so.
Thought is creation, mankind is indeed gifted, but we wont do anything about it, we keep with our wills this impossible structure called reality, we are so afraid of it ever toppling, we could easily will something much better, we could be free, yet we choose slavery within the walls of a jail made up of words and concepts, we are trapped in air!

But we will change one way or another, its inevitable.
I invite everyone to feel the land under their feet. Get out of your comfort zone, feel the rigors of "real" life, sleep under the stars once in a while, unplug yourself from those tiring routines, get away from the city for a while, eat fresh, crap even better and listen to HER through yourself, its not that hard, this rock hurling through space really speaks to anyone that listens, and that is not a rumor!

If we continue living the way we are, there is only one possible outcome, no comfort can compare to life.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46a29a1cb703.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 31-8-2010 by TheOneEyedProphet]

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
There are a lot of nuances to this, but the simple answer is because human population is well beyond the point that we can live as hunters and gatherers. Metaphorically speaking, we were kicked out of the Garden of Eden long ago.

Everything you eat or drink requires human effort to produce it in a form that won't kill you and to bring it to you. You pay for it to ensure that you are contributing your fair share to this process (as presumably you or some benefactor worked for your money).

Or do you expect everyone else to do the work to feed you?

You should study the Tragedy of the Commons.



[edit on 30-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

So basically, before the aqueduct, all human beings died from drinking water? Then why, if all water is being purified do you have the designation of "spring" and "distilled"?
The idea here is no different than a point Jesus was making when he said that birds don't beg for food and water. It exists here in nature for you to get off your lazy butts and go get it. That's right, pick up a bucket and go get it, not pay people and have to worry what they put in your, em, water.
Now of course within the matrix, you can't do this. If you believe the PTB want you to have free water and energy, please think again.
www.justmeans.com...
"But a word of warning: Some states carry laws against collecting your own water. Colorado, Utah and Washington State have some existing laws on collecting water, though they are being challenged by consumers and lawmakers today."
I even read where a woman in the US was forced to remove her solar panels because they were toxic or something. I can't find it now but will look for it.

The reason why we have to pay is this.

There is social evolution going on. The main driver is selection for power when there is scarcity. If two people need one thing (with modern examples):
- the weaker one can run away to different place (off grid remote living)
- the weaker one submits to stronger one (nation submits to government)
- the weaker is killed bu stronger (wars in Middle East for resources)
- the weaker on imitates the stronger one (Japan imitated West after WW2)

One way to eliminate this social evolution distortion is to create actual abundance.

COMPLETE ABUNDANCE OF EVERYTHING

Originally posted by DaWhiz
So basically, before the aqueduct, all human beings died from drinking water?

Obviously not. But you were a lot more likely to get your good old Oregon Trail diseases like cholera. There's a reason life expectancies in ancient times were a lot lower. There were more Darwinian selection pressures.

In any case, this is a very wide deviation from the point of my post.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
It's like taxes. We need to pay the government in order for roads, schools, hospitals, police/fire stations, and among other things to get built.

If we want clean purified water, we need to pay so the companies can actually present it to us.

Nothing is free. If that was the case, nothing would get done.

Not true.

Government takes a lot of money in taxes and provides very little in return. Private sector is more efficient at delivering roads, fire stations, schools...

The only thing is - they will go out of business, if there will be abundance. That means, we have to pay because of self interest of business people and governments.

Otherwise technology could provide everything for free years ago.

We will see massive technological unemployment in coming years in manufacturing and service sectors.

There will be a day in future when there will be no jobs, no money, massive starvation and homelessness, but at the same time there will be immense technological capability to sustain life for all the population of the Earth.

Oh these type threads are so hilarious.

Let me explain to YOU why things are NOT free and easy.

Your government does not allow you to own property or yourself.

It is is called individual liberty and property ownership.

If you have to pay a tax on your property, you do not own it.

If you have to pay a tax on your labor, you are a slave.

When you are required to continually pay into a system of governance where you will lose your property if you do not continually pay into the system, there is NO escape. There is NO freedom.

Most of the people that go down this road love to blame corporations, what I find Ironic is that instead of doing what they should, they attempt to demonize them.

Let me ask you, what if we did not allow corporations to not own any property? What if they were only allowed to operate by renting their land? What I am getting at is just installing just a little change to corporate law instead of attempting to change everything.

Anyway, the reason it costs you soooo much to survive, is because you are NOT allowed to keep what you create. You are forced to continually work FOR the system.

Make any sense?

See, when corporations were created, they were meant to be able to expand our ability to work less and create more. They were not allowed to have human rights. Now, they are allowed to be set up where they own property and have rights.

Then the governments switched the parameters. You are not allowed to own property and keep what you produce.

Kinda sneaky of the old government and their corporate whores, aye?

If you realize one thing and one thing only, corporations do not pay ANY taxation. Not one dime. Their expenses ALWAYS equal their profits. ALWAYS. All profits above the expenses are either reinvested or are distributed as percentages of their shareholder's holdings of stock.

Oh well, there is some sand around here somewhere to bury your heads in.

POSSIBLY IMPORTANT CONNECTION!

Hey guys.

I'm not sure if this was pointed out earlier, but he mentioned something very interesting. Hear me out.

He was talking about one of the earlier messages he received from the Andromedans, about how "Tyranny appeared in our galaxy suddenly...".....somethnig like that.

Then he said that they travelled back in time to our particular point, because our focus right now is what will decide the "shift"- we either become a decent species, or succumb to tyranny.

Does anyone here remember Alcyone of Mars? The supposed time traveller from the year 10800+?
She allegendly came back and said the same thing.

She warned us of the greys (Dows). That they want to make us advanced beings at the cost of free will.

I was sitting on the fence about Alcyone. But i'm leaning off to her side. Still on the fence, mind you. But leaning a bit.

Jesus christ this man is pretentious, has his head so far up his ass that he looks like a sea snail.

Within the first 5 minutes he says something stuck up thinking he is holier than thou

reply to post by Segador


Yea. He's selling it like it's a religion right?

The whole...
"you are special... deep down you are special...." -makes someone feel special.
"Damaged DNA... TPTB being really good and shrouding your vision" -Sympathy, or promote self-pity.
...But there's hope! Hear my words for there's hope in it! - sort of thing.


a religion. but still pretty interesting info.