Stock broker friend of mine, says all traders are buying land, gold, silver....

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


you are absolutely right, what was I thinking when I thought I could depend on the government. thanks bud.

reply to post by Oldnslo


That's a good recommendation, if people have a good local dealer, cash and carry is the best way to go.

Will the various governments ever try to grab all the gold, or silver from the people? Actually, I don't think they will, at least not yet. My reasoning is pretty simple. No one really has any gold to speak of!

Since I have been in the precious metals market as a seller for years, I can tell you many people do in fact worry about confiscation. Some will spend more money per ounce, just to obtain a form that seems "less likely" to be confiscated. BUT again, almost no one has any gold!

The average person has a bit of gold in their wedding band. If it is a "she", and she is a bit allergic, perhaps she has a tad bit more gold in her earrings.

This is why it seems very unlikely the government would even go to the trouble of trying to get gold. This is not 1933, gold is now a memory. Some of the replies being posted in this thread say a lot about the mentality out there too, they say things like "you can't buy food with gold!". Our master's plan to divorce that "old relic" from the popular idea of money, it worked.

Not to mention, the people who have any gold to speak of are the tiny tenth of a percent that is causing most of the trouble to begin with!

I should say something to those people out there who will ignore you great recommendation to find a local dealer. They may feel like they live paycheck, to paycheck, and can never "afford" precious metals. Consider the following please:

If the biggest global meltdown in history comes down pretty soon, wouldn't it be nice to have something, rather than nothing? Silver is dirt cheap. Anyone with a job can figure out how to get $20 for a silver round or something, and put it away. Cut down on your smoking maybe! But if the SHTF, you will be in good company with some silver. Historically, silver has been money in more times and places than gold.

One of the best kept secrets is that silver may be rarer than gold. Of course, few could even entertain the notion, but research it, and see what you find. Could be that even some paycheck-to-paycheck folks could do OK, by just having SOME silver, rather than none.

Certainly people in your area should be asking you who you trust for your cash and carry needs. If someone out there needs suggestions, just look to other local members. Better to do something, rather than nothing.

JR

Originally posted by kozmo
The things you'll need to survive won't come in the form of material items. It will be knowledge - survival knowledge. How to grow food, hunt, live off the land and remain unnoticed etc... There won't be commerce and no one can eat gold, cloth themselves in gold or shelter in gold.

Well heres the thing with that...I know where the dear are around here and how to get them....but so do about 100 other guys. I can rasie chickens and rabbits but would have to watch over them with a shotgun. And its hard to feed some livestock if you cant buy feed at the mill, lots of work. And better learn how to do many things in the dark not just for security but there will be no fule or batteries for lights.


Get a self charging radio, learn to make candles, cut firewood with an ax, get an ax or two, learn about edible wild plants, fishing poles, old abandoned properties have wells on them somewhere even long after the house has been gone, look into hand pumps now, learn your wild nut trees and nuts, get a fishing cross bow, casting nets, trotlines, leghold and body traps will save lots of time used in hunting, caning jars and lids, most of these things are better than buying gold.....if your really think the @#^% going to hit the fan.

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo
cant believe that many people on ATS actually believe that

Like any online forum... there are real usernames (real people who promote personal views based on their own conclusions) and there are fictitious usernames (fictitious people who promote views that may not be their own). As in most forums, the fictitious usernames greatly outnumber the real usernames.

Originally posted by ANNED
I can then travel around the southwest in the old mining country and with the motor home i will have a place to live while gold mining.

If all else fails i can file mining claims to park on while mining. about $125 a year.

Plus if the cost of everything goes up my veteran pension goes up with the cost of living index.

Well if you file mining claims you have to provide some personal info, If you collect a pension they must know where to send it… and if you travel around in a vehicle they can pull you over, seize your vehicle and any gold you may have within it and of course they can cut off your pension anytime.

Originally posted by Terces_Pot_Evoba

Originally posted by mordant1
reply to post by Terces_Pot_Evoba

 

When it comes to survival, your first mistake is also your last one.

who are we kidding? this is all a bunch of fear porn anyway. lets just stay positive and work together with other people. seriously, this is how we overcome

"Fear porn"...lovely metaphor, cheers..

So true, they are trying everything to prevent a positive concious shift which will leave them powerless, that's what I hold dear to my heart whilst embracing the fear(unfortunately)

reply to post by JR MacBeth


The people that say they understand why gold is at the price it is currently, IMHO, are just fooling themselves.

I keep hearing about this inflation hedge in a DEFLATIONARY ENVIRONMENT. The old saying is gold takes the stairs up and the ELEVATOR DOWN. I got quasi caught up in the hype and the bullish chart but it looks like it is totally stalling where it ideally shouldn't.

If you were reading I was going to sell my .2 unit of gold at SP1000 and buy 1050 calls.. really wish the ES would have went to 999 instead of 1001.5 or whatever the hell the number was. So now I sit still with gold..

And I am not touting myself, I am certainly wrong an average of at least 40% or greater of the time. I don't touch daytrading anymore anyway, I just literally got caught in the hype of gold like others. Everything else is automated, and if you were smart you would do the same. You will be a eventual loser without a significant sample size in an ideally longer time frame than 15-30 minute candles spanning > 500+ trades for your sample data. I see programs just continually yield less and less and less... so much competition these days in less than a 1-5 minute resolution time frame..

There are far too many factors involved right now to really understand the gold price. IMO it is vastly fueled by relentless retail speculation and I hope people understand the market is set up to hurt the greatest quantity at one time. That could not be more glaring than the environment Palladium, GC, etc. are trading.

I dont think Ben Bernanke is lying at all when he says he is perplexed by the movement of gold. If you are NOT, not you (again), you are most likely kidding yourself. In 5-10 years we will know and most likely the correlation with the dollar will break off to extremes before it comes back.

It will, and if you could buy 1 US DOLLAR INDEX FUTURES CONRTACT and SHORT 1 GOLD (GC) starting tomorrow with enough capital I think you will be doing EXTREMELY WELL in not too long. These stories about the dollar falling are nothing but people on the other side giving the MSM something juicy for "webclickz" and in general misconceptions about the US Economy + global equity and fixed income markets

I guarantee the people that say they are going one way are definitely not in reality. They certainly don't need to tell you the truth. I hear all this Soros talk etc.. OMG seriously, get real. Yeah, so now professionals tell everyone when to get in and get out so it makes it more competitive to move extremely huge amounts of contracts and shares? lolololololololololololololol.

Hell, just call down to the NYMEX, the top independent floor trader is giving everyone epic advice on Thursday mornings before the inventory report on Light Sweet Crude. He wouldn't lie to us, right?

Did this all crazy range and volatility movement all spur because of the crude oil movement in 2008.. ? I am really starting to think that. When the CL contract totally went the other way of the SP500 in HINDSIGHT should have been a major sign of something seriously messed up.

But again, you are at the mercy now of guys like Reinhardt and John Titor - because these guys know the real "inside" guys. If you always talk in hypotheticals and jargon, couple that with the decoder ring you needed to decipher what "R" was selling, you deserve every kick in the nuts that is coming to you.

Why does it seem like so many on this site are willing to believe anything they hear in the media or economyincrisis.org? Yeah, they have been all spot in for the past 1.5 years. Enjoy blowing up much? It hurts, I know, I've been there too.

Half the membership on this site thinks it is just some government computer making up fake volume all day and printing trades on the NYSE and the CME. Like it is just "obvious". I guess if you lived in a hamster wheel as well it would be obvious that the whole universe definitely fits in a cubic ft cylinder.

There are almost an infinite amount of reasons for commodities to act like this. As soon as you think you have cornered the market in my experience it is time to seriously reevaluate your position in the marketplace.

I just have to literally LOL when I see about 30% of the membership here say the called the top in the SP500 like they would be shorting at 1600 on the ES (LO f'in L) and they coverered right at 666 because Gerald Celente and that one other internet god for 8 months (Reinhardt) told them so in cryptic code. Don't forget to send in for the decoder ring btw, it's on sale for only $699.99, but what would you pay for infinite knowledge? Fortunes untold, no doubt.

And yeah, I am making fun of most of you. But so what, it is funny, and everything I just stated is the absolute truth. I will most likely end up apologizing for remarks later, but IMHO it couldn't be more clear.

Just get real.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
In that video, two things are happening that deserve comment. One, you have a local economy where food has become scarce.

Hi IAG. During the peak of the Zimbabwean currency crisis food became scarce and store shelves empty because the gubmn't instituted price controls...producers were not willing to sell goods at a 50% discount and receive rapidly declining Zimbabwean currency for their efforts...would you ? Ergo: they wanted Gold. Same in 1923 Germany...farmers refused to bring crops to market in exchange for valueless deutschmarks (their fields were looted by hungry townsfolk on a regular basis)...but they eagerly accepted Gold/Silver.

Two you still have a thriving Western economy where gold is highly sought. You have demand for food, where gold is available, and a demand for gold where food is available. I am not surprised that the people are willing to trade food for gold.

The sun may set in the West, but it doesn't rise there. Gold trades in a highly liquid global market. Eastern investment demand for physical Gold dwarfs Western demand...China, India, even the tiny country of Vietnam...yes, Vietnam. On a per-capita-income basis, Vietnam consumes twice as much gold as India...10 times as much as China. Obviously Gold's universal appeal as a store of value extends to Zimbabwe...this fact was especially evident during that countries recent currency crisis [video].

If there were no population that were not starving, food would be more valuable than gold, and no one would trade food for gold.

The bull market in Gold is unrelated to food shortages in the country of Zimbabwe, or global hunger for that matter...rather, study sovereign debt, currency risk, currency debasement.

Gold is awfully high right now. When is it good to buy high and sell low?

I've heard that statement on a yearly basis...ever since I began making serious allocations in 2003....had I listened, and not applied fundamental research, I would have missed +300% and counting. By 2006 I was 60% liquid net physical Gold/Silver and related mining shares...as of my last physical allocation in May, I'm 80%, have a cache of staples, and currently hold a 2yr cash reserve, 50% of which I will gradually re-allocate to PM's as conditions warrant.

People tend to see price "bubbles" in rising sectors where they neglected to invest and that they don't really understand. Now feeling priced-out...it's all about sour grapes.

I say Gold is still cheap (Silver much cheaper). A year from now that statement will make sense.

Just sayin. That video is not, to me, evidence that gold is the thing to buy in all situations. Its evidence to me that food is the god of all living things.

While I agree that food storage is advisable, it's obvious that the majority of the population won't follow...the question for those that still have capital to protect (many) is what to do with those remaining $ ???

Protect yourselves in whatever manner you choose...but please, protect yourselves to whatever degree you are able.

reply to post by mordant1


Depending on the type of SHTF scenario, picking up and running might not be an option. Regardless whether you have food or gold. Remember when they tried to evacuate in Texas for Hurricane Rita and everyone got stuck on the freeway?

search.creativecommons.org...

On Wednesday, Houston mayor Bill White urged residents to evacuate the city, telling residents, "Don't wait; the time for waiting is over," reminding residents of the disaster in New Orleans. [21] After heavy traffic snarled roads leading out of town and gas shortages left numerous vehicles stranded, he backed off his earlier statement with, "If you're not in the evacuation zone, follow the news," advising people to use common sense.[21] However by 3:00 p.m. that afternoon, the freeway system in Houston was at a stand-still. [22]

Being mobile may or may not be your best option. It may not be an option at all for some. (Those with no cars, or if gas isnt available) And, if communication has shut down, how do you even know if where you are planning to go is safer/better than where you are?


You are right, we did go to gold and other currencies because they are easier to store and transport. They are convenient that way. They are also easier to steal. Convenience is something that works both ways. If you have a small group of people with a large stockpile of food, and a small group of people with the equivalent in gold, one traitor in the group would have a much easier time grabbing all the gold and abandoning ship than he would moving a whole stockpile of food by himself.

Im not saying gold isnt a good idea for some, in some situations. Just that a store of food is more likely to get you through a wider variety of situations, and would be the wiser choice for many right now. Say someone with only $1200 buys an oz of gold, and the S doesnt HTF, and gold corrects. By the time the average person realizes they need to sell, they will lose money. A person with a store of food who figures out the S isnt going to HTF, can just eat his stockpile, and save back the money he spent on it by buying less groceries for a while. In the one scenario, you could lose a lot of the value you invested in the disaster. In the other, you lose almost nothing. (of course gold could continue to rise indefinitely and the person could make a lot of money by selling higher, you would have to consider the odds yourself)


Not to mention if the majority of people began stockpiling a years worth of food, that entire group would do better than the same group of people if they all stockpiled gold. (Who would then have to find people who stockpiled food to take advantage of their gold.) It would be less of a disaster, in other words, overall, if a lot of people had essential resources piled up to get them through a rough patch. Like humans have been doing successfully for much longer than we have been stockpiling gold.

Originally posted by Mr.Hyde
Bullets will make you a killer

They also make you a Survivor.

Or you could say a Winner...lol

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


while all your 'ifs' are technically correct, there is one that's not.
There is no 'if' about something hitting the fan, it will fairly soon happen and it will be worse than any imagining. It's now mathematically impossible for it not to, and all the worldwide trendlines aim straight for it.
Those that poopoo it are responding to the realization that they can do nothing substantial to survive it given thier talent set, therefore it dont exist or they figure they will ally themselves whith whatever big dog becomes available. Short of the capacity to be self sufficient in all things, the option is limited to join the mob or smoke a barrel.

Originally posted by jtma508
...I do want to point out one as yet unconsidered aspect. The Weimar hyperinflation and other examples given were localized phenomena brought about by local economic issues. The 'next' one is likely to be global.

It has often been said that what got the U.S. out of the last Depression was WWII. The 'logical' leap then is that what we need is a big-ass war to set things right. The problem is that back at the time of the Great Depression, the U.S. had massive industrial capacity and a huge trade surplus. Neither of those things are true today.

So, in today's reality, can we assume what will happen based upon patterns from a distant and vastly different reality?

First, I really like your signature line, nice! I,m not sure I agree that the infamous Weimar hyperinflation was merely "local", there was a worldwide Depression going on after all, and the Weimar hyperinflation reflected a course of action prompted by the same forces that were hitting other nations. The specific dramatics that played out had more to do with the fact that Germany had been left with so few options in comparison to other nations (so it seemed).

It's interesting that in this thread, gold and silver are being entertained as possible alternatives. Personally, I am an advocate of using precious metals as a means of diversification, but even more importantly, as a conservative means of preparing for a possible "Weimar" situation that could literally come at us anytime. The people who are in control of exactly how and when get to decide that, but each of us can do something small to conservatively prepare.

You mention WWII as being what probably got the US out of the Depression. A lot of people seem to hold that, history has been written, as such. But it's actually not true, upon closer inspection. What actually happened, was what always happens (even today). Our masters created a situation, and then offered a "solution". Usually, the misery they offer to mitigate the first misery they created, is worse, but somehow it works.

Specifically, the banksters of the world almost a century ago, were finally able to put together a sophisticated plan to hose the entire planet. The banksters worked together quite well of course, but why not? It's the same people who own them all! The plan was to simultaneously set off a far-reaching "world" war, while having the finances in place to create severe worldwide economic havoc after the war.

Ever notice how the Federal Reserve dates to 1914? Coincidence that England suspended specie (gold) in the same year (the War was a good excuse!).? The scene was already being set for the subsequent phase. Only a small bit of "prosperity" diverted the masses post WWI from what was being planned.

All along, the real culprit was the GOLD STANDARD! The banksters knew this of course, and allowed the deflationary pressures, in concert with what they allowed to be done to Germany at Versailles. In a monetary system where gold must ultimately be coughed up, Germany was screwed. They had none left after the War, which is why they were forced to use fiat.

The central banks laughed of course. With a gold standard, they could even claim innocence, since they literally were not "allowed" to lower interest rates. Perfect plan, yet few seemed to understand how they were being played.

But there was a fly in the ointment. Stubborn China was seemingly "immune" from the Depression! Why? Because they retained their traditional SILVER standard, and if anyone noticed, it would be all too obvious what was really to blame for the Depression. Not to mention, how easy it would be to get out of it. (i.e., NO World War required!)

But some nations were figuring it out nonetheless. The countries to dump the gold standard, like Australia, were among the first to recover. The misery in US lingered of course, but it was only because of FED policy, and they dallied, finally only confiscating gold in 1933. The true US recovery really begins there, even though it was very slow.

And just when the rest would realize what had happened to them, the third phase began to conveniently distract them all. The well-planned WW2. Quite a distraction! Later, the vile banksters would even have the audacity to claim that it was WW2 that got the US (the world) out of the Depression! And all these years later, amazingly, it is still a "fact"...

Your last point I'd like to comment on too, "can we assume what will happen based upon patterns from a distant and vastly different reality?"

Today's reality is no different in it's essentials. The same people still run the world, but their power is even greater now. They make plans, and they "execute" them (forgive the choice of words!). We, the sheeple, are of no consequence. When the time comes for "depression", we get one. When the time comes for millions to kill each other, we obey. Such has it been, such is the way it is even now.

And the point you made that led up to your conclusion? "...back at the time of the Great Depression, the U.S. had massive industrial capacity and a huge trade surplus. Neither of those things are true today."

On the contrary. This is most especially true of CHINA today, and should be considered huge global over-hang. Perhaps things don't always play out exactly the "same", but as Mark Twain once observed about history, it sure seems to "rhyme"...

OK, so after all this, pointing out the little-known role the gold standard played in Great Depression I, why would I still advocate having gold and silver? This may be a question some will ask. But real, physical gold was never the problem back then, rather, it was banksters who got to peg the official inter-currency exchanges. Gold itself did just fine, and those who resisted turning their gold in back in 1933, were soon rewarded with a big return, as the US dollar devalued, basically screwing everyone else who had no gold (don't worry, the rich took the heads-up in time, just like today).

I think history is in fact a good indication of where we are headed. And if there are any timely adjustments to be made, I would cautiously prefer to "assume the worst", not out of some sort of "fear mongering" inclination, but only because it has ever been the prudent way to be. The Boy Scout isn't taught to be scared, rather he is taught to always "be prepared"...

JR

reply to post by JR MacBeth


One small point of disagreement, nothing actually solved the depression, it was just that the war allowed ignoring the concept of debt and that it needed to be repayed to keep value stable. Bebt was assumed to be a temporary evil, to be payed off eventually but was only subsequently ignored and everyone had a cashflow party. Were it not for the fact that the US had the only surviving industrial infrastructure and that the world needed to buy from us at our price, we would have been right back into the shiznit in 1946. The war disconnected debt from the public consciousness, that's all and continuing to pretend that one could profit indefinately off cashflow screwed the pooch, it was clearly predictable that as soon as other industrial nations no longer needed to buy from the US, the bill would eventually come due (and the cashflow party would end,) you know that bill that's been acruing interest since 1929 and less directly from 1914.
There is no way to pay the debts applied to everyone by govt spending, there is no way for govt to provide promised benefits.
Depopulation and confiscation, with inflation before or after really unimportant, that's all that can possibly balance the balance sheet. Property bought on cashflow credit will be repo'd and those that created have made arrangements to be held harmless and rewarded for leading their respective sheep into the pens, You can die fighting it or you can die from abandonment exploitation and betrayal but if you run most likely you'll just die out of breath, scared and further from home

[edit on 18-7-2010 by mordant1]

[edit on 18-7-2010 by mordant1]

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by anubis9311
Well its all nice and good for people to buy gold and land and silver. However land can be seized at any time if the government really wants to. and no don't go telling me that you will shoot anyone trying to come on the land. why do you think they are trying to take away the guns? besides you might get off a couple of shots before the army that was sent gets you. but it wont be enough cause those 2 or 3 people you kill will be replaced by 100 others when the government does a crack down and says you want to eat? you work for us.

As for gold and silver, didn't anyone learn from history. the Germans grabbed all the gold and precious stuff when they took over every country. including their own. So yeah go ahead and buy that gold coin. better put it under your bed and pray your neighbor didn't see you walk in with it. He will probably be the rat that informs to the government on you. Or better yet when his family is starving and he goes over the edge, your bed might be easier to rob then the bank he was thinking of.

Everyone is an expert on when TSHTF...

So what is your plan? To work for the government?

Well here is something to think about so how is the government going to pay that army they are supposedly sending after little ole me on my acreage out in podunk township? Financial and economic collapse is also collapse of that military's supply train also. Soldiers don't kill for free and someone has to grow the food and build the shelter that feeds and houses them how will they be paid? If they force them to work as slaves they will just create more insurgents.

It seems to me that people think the collapse is just for the peasants and the military industrial complex has unlimited resources manufacturing and food... Oh wait a minute it is the peasants who do all the work that supports all that.

No military on earth can control the entire land mass of America it is logistically impossible, especially with a rifle behind every blade of grass. They will have cut off thier own supply lines. They can't control Iraq or Afghanistan how they going to control the U S of A?

Gold and silver have been a stable store of value for thousands of years and they will continue to be. Sure there are times when food is more valuable because you can't eat gold and silver and we might see that for a short time but eventually society will reform to some degree and begin to trade and gold and silver will be the medium they turn to.

People will band together and form local militias for mutual protection and trade it is the basis of all society.


[edit on 18-7-2010 by hawkiye]

Well sadly It may be that gold and silver will be the commodity of choice. however don't we all already work for the government? we get paid in their green worthless money that they print. If it comes down to it and TSHTF then they can always use food or their ability to hand out land and houses to loyal people. if anything they can just change the color of the money and then only give it to anyone who works for them. Don't always assume gold and silver is the way to go is all I'm trying to say. The past has always had slave labor too. it's only recently that slavery has become a bad thing. how did the Egyptians have such a huge army and still maintain a slave force? they gave valued goods to their soldiers. Not always gold. But bread for their tables to feed their families. If it came down to it and there was resistance they would still maintain the army. Think of the sheople out there that will listen to the government, granted you and your militia group of 100 might not listen, maybe even plan on how your going to strike back at the government. That's all fine and dandy but when your 100 highly trained soldiers come up against 10000 Government Military and all the fancy weapons you might hold off for a few days or even months. However chances are your going to get nuked one day if your a big enough threat. when TSHTF what do they care if they nuke a couple of towns to get ride of a few 100 idealists? The more towns the less people they will have to feed, and the less they will have to fear of turning against them. besides most will be moved to fema camps or something anyway. Those in the town that are already serving with the government will just be told to evacuate out of the region before the bomb hits.

As for your gold that they will rip from your cold nuked hands it wont have fed your families. cause that guy down the road making hot bread doesnt need gold, what he needs is some meat to put in the bread to make a sandwich.

reply to post by anubis9311


There was a day that patriots fought for principle if not for them then for their children, now they go for the cash. As Carl Malden used to say in the commercial, 'what do you do? What DO you do?'..

Originally posted by OBE1
The bull market in Gold is unrelated to food shortages in the country of Zimbabwe, or global hunger for that matter...rather, study sovereign debt, currency risk, currency debasement.

The fact that the villagers are panning for gold to buy food is not directly related to currency risk and debasement either. It is in one way, (the food sellers dont want their paper money) but the FACT that they have no food is because of other issues.

I did go and take a look, (briefly) at Zimbabwe after watching your video. My comment is on the plight of the villagers themselves, not the country. They are needing gold to buy food because they have no food, and they cant make the land produce it, (the real old fashioned way) because of;

search.creativecommons.org...

Large parts of Zimbabwe have previously been covered by forest, the African bush, with an abundant wildlife. Poverty, population growth and lack of fuel has led to extensive deforestation which together with poaching has reduced the wildlife considerably. Deforestation and woodland degradation are a major concern[6] and have led to erosion and land degradation which diminish the amount of fertile soil. Poor mining practices have led to localised toxic waste and metal pollution[7].

and

Zimbabwe's current economic and food crisis, described by some observers as the country's worst humanitarian crisis since independence, has been attributed in varying degrees, to the government's price controls and land confiscations, the HIV/AIDS epidemic, and a drought affecting the entire region.[39]

If the villagers could still make land produce enough to feed them, they would not be needing to pan for gold all day every day just to eat. No one would want their paper money, but they could just barter food or other things for things they needed other than food. Their situation is more complex than a simple economic collapse, and if they HAD food, they wouldnt need gold to buy it. Regardless whether or not their paper money was worthless.

For the villagers in that video, (not discussing Zimbabwe as a whole) gold is a middle man on the way to food. If they could "pan for food" directly, they would. But they cant right now, because of environmental issues and overpopulation. (And technically overpopulation is an environmental issue, but we dont tend to recognize that) Hence the video says to me that for the average person, buy food directly while you can do so cheaply, (if you are really worried about a SHTF scenario) rather than buying gold high, and then buying food at inflated prices as well. For the person without a lot of assets, their net worth will go further that way.

Originally posted by OBE1
I've heard that statement on a yearly basis...ever since I began making serious allocations in 2003....had I listened, and not applied fundamental research, I would have missed +300% and counting. .....................

People tend to see price "bubbles" in rising sectors where they neglected to invest

and that they don't really understand. Now feeling priced-out...it's all about sour grapes.

Maybe. You could have said that about the housing market before the collapse too. But it was a bubble. Its really hard to know, and people just need to go with their gut on the gold issue as an investment. I wouldnt buy right now, I would buy real estate.

A lot of these people on ATS arent concerned with buying gold to increase an already considerable net worth. Some are, and I dont have sour grapes that some are making money off the rise in gold. In general, as long as the person isnt cheating, I am very happy for others who succeed. (I do loathe people who cheat to win, however.)

Originally posted by OBE1
While I agree that food storage is advisable, it's obvious that the majority of the population won't follow...the question for those that still have capital to protect (many) is what to do with those remaining $ ???

Yeah, you and I are really talking to different audiences. I am talking to the person worried about starving if the SHTF, and you are talking to people wanting to protect assets. I definitely agree with your closing. Protect yourself, regardless which category you fall into. I stand by my assertion that if you have to choose only one because of your financial situation, you would be better served storing up supplies. Diversify if you can, but if you cant, buy what you need directly, dont buy the middle man.

I would prioritize food/supplies, arable land, and then gold. The first, because you need it immediately. The second, because it can produce food, which can be sold for gold or eaten, the third, to hold any value I wanted liquid.

Gold market is manipulated. 4000 $ an ounce will be the new minimum in a year or two (according to specialists). Then it could climb to 1 million an ounce.

You decide what to do with this information. Ignore it, or buy gold/silver.

reply to post by mordant1


I really dont "pooh pooh" the possibility that the S may HTF. Trust me. I moved recently to an area that I both like better climate wise and landscape wise, but that is also imho a better place to be if the SHTF than the high desert. Much better growing conditions here, and much more ground water. Springs everywhere. Not to mention cheaper arable land.

I just dont claim I KNOW that the S will HTF. I dont. I feel it is possible, likely even, but I dont know for sure, and I am not comfortable saying things in a strong tone of voice unless I am pretty darn certain, and honestly, I am not about this one. Its very, very possible. But I dont feel really, really sure.

I am not saying those of you who DO feel really, really sure are wrong. I promise. You may just have better intuition about this than I do.

Do you think its as easy as you see on T.V.? Do you think you could deal with killing someone... I don't think so, it's not like in the video games you play. It haunts you, it eats away at you....its not as easy as it seems.

Survivor, winner - cheapens the act. Dealing with the aftermath of hearing someone in fear and pain, their screaming and crys for help, for anyone to save them ..to help them as you stand there the winner, the survivor is not easy to cope with. Yeah you live and they die .. its not that simple though ...

Im not advocating you don't defend yourself ... but killing is not as easy as you seem to believe it to be.

Originally posted by Boomer1941

Originally posted by Mr.Hyde
Bullets will make you a killer

They also make you a Survivor.

Or you could say a Winner...lol

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Well at least youre hedging your bets. You'd be better off taking my advice, you may forget it soon, but you'll remember this conversation later I guarantee it. Oh yes, do consider EMP as a reality as well.