Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by TruthWizard
they had guns, not batons, not tazers, not sound cannons, not riot shields they had lethal guns, so yes they intended to shoot people.

If you watch the video at RealClearPolitics I linked to, the Israelis boarded with what appear to be paint-ball guns (though IDF says they were not paintball guns, rather some sort of non-lethal weapon), you can see one of the Israelis holding it at the 50 second mark, and sidearms.

Either way, your argument is a non-sequitur and an indictment of every single gun owner of the United States. Just because you have a gun, does not mean you intend to kill someone.

And again, if the Israelis' intention was just to kill people, we would be discussing a much higher death toll.

dear god! use some common since, Israel KNEW that the people on that boat were against Israel so by sending in armed soldiers they KNEW it would end combat. it's like sending the KKK to police a black panther rally.

and know i was not accusing all gun owners of wanting to kill people but if i saw a bunch of armed soldiers sliding down ropes next to me i would assume I'm under attack

I am still waiting for israelis to find iranian nuclear warheads hidden in the flotella.

The night vision video of israeli helicopter was funny though.Israeli commando slips down the line and about half a dozen peeps piled him ROFL!!! If i was the commando i would have climbed back up the rope into the heli.

After a few secs the commandos landed, everyone suddenly laid down on the floor after the pile up, was that the point the commandoes shot those innocent folks?

film here of what appears to be many people on the ship attacking soldiers with axes and batons......first ive seen tbh..not peacefull by any stretch..

idf autos appear to be ram paintball markers...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by chaosinorder
reply to post by MorfeuZ

 

www.youtube.com...

See the video

Do you really believe that this video shows the beginning of the operation?


With all the captions put in by the IDF? REALLY???




[edit on 31/5/2010 by MorfeuZ]

Originally posted by little_green_man

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by little_green_man
So self-defence is a crime?

I do not see self-defense there. I see an attempt to harm and kill.

Why are they harming those soldiers?


Because they're boarding a boat in international waters, while armed with guns.

If someone with guns, real or fake(but still somehow able to kill 16), invaded my home; I would attack them for sure

Especially if they have a background of stealing organs and killing children, also being anti-Semitic (anti-Iranian, anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab).

The terrorist organization Hamas, which controls Gaza, in collusion with Turkey, intentionally provoked this incident in order to discredit Israel yet again.

This incident had nothing to do with Humanitarian Aid. It had everything to do with busting a blockade, the same blockade that Egypt currently enforces against "terrorist controlled Gaza" from their side of the border.

I don't ever recall seeing "Humanitarians" severely beating people like I am seeing on television right now. The news footage is shocking. It is obvious that the Israeli's were merely defending themselves against a vicious brutal attack.

It is also obvious that most of the Jew Haters, Terrorists and so called "Humanitarians" who post on this site are doing so from oversees.

Judging from the ferocity of the beatings, I'm surprized that only 9 terrorists were killed. It seems to me that the Israeli's acted considerably restrained under the circumstances. I doubt if I would have been that gentle.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

( edit: the number of terrorists killed)

[edit on 31-5-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

[edit on 31-5-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Originally posted by lucid eyes

Originally posted by ElijahWan

Can you please show where how these humanitarians are "a collection of communist-extremists?"

Do it like me - I actually ran the passengers list through Google (some of us really do research background stuff instead of taking what the media says at face value).

Something tells me most will not examine the passengers lists because they have already made up their mind that Israel is 100% at fault.

These are the ones who have their mind made up about Israel no matter what event occurs.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by lucid eyes]

Oh boy you ran the passenger list through Google?

When you consider that 3/4s of the articles on Wikipedia are user generated, what do you think you are going to find through Google?

What’s more how do you independently verify what you found on Google is accurate and further pertains to the actual person you ran the name for.

For instance I can pay an Internet Background Checking Organization like Intelli-Choice to give me all the records of John Doe (insert any first and last name of your choosing) and it is going to give me all the public records available on everyone named John Doe. What it does not do is tell me which of them belong to my John Doe.

Further you are once again insinuating that this deceptive process of searching for internet based information on people yielded 100% results that everyone on the Passenger Manifest was a communist.

Yet providing no linked evidence to the Passenger Manifest or its authenticity, or the sources you supposedly found that listed them all as communists.

A source that no court of law would consider a verifiable source to begin with, and sources that may have been manufactured in places like Wikipedia for the purpose of yielding such information through a search.

In reality all you are doing is showing the desperation of a position that is so tenuous because of the circumstances even the Jihadist and Anti-Semite Cards don’t work, so you are just shuffling the deck to pull out the Communist Card.

Originally posted by TSawyer

Originally posted by little_green_man

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by little_green_man
So self-defence is a crime?

I do not see self-defense there. I see an attempt to harm and kill.

Why are they harming those soldiers?


Because they're boarding a boat in international waters, while armed with guns.

If someone with guns, real or fake(but still somehow able to kill 16), invaded my home; I would attack them for sure

Especially if they have a background of stealing organs and killing children, also being anti-Semitic (anti-Iranian, anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab).

Lets hope they leave the organs of those 19 killed alone!

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I don't know about you but when a force of PIRATES is taking over my vessel...I'm sure as hell going to fight them off dude....

Originally posted by gambon
film here of what appears to be many people on the ship attacking soldiers with axes and batons......first ive seen tbh..not peacefull by any stretch..

idf autos appear to be ram paintball markers...

news.bbc.co.uk...

They were weaponized paintball guns:

n the late 1990s and early 2000s police began to adopt a new pepper spray delivery system based on the equipment used in paintballs. A specialized paintball, called a "pepperball", is filled with liquid or powdered capsaicin, the active ingredient in pepper spray, and is propelled by compressed gas using a paintball marker similar to those used for the sport but operating at higher pressure. The impact of the capsule is immediately painful (a pepperball's shell is thicker than a standard paintball and is fired at higher velocity), and it breaks open on impact, dispersing the capsaicin with similar effect to aerosol-delivered pepper spray. However, to be most effective, pepper spray must contact the eyes, nose, or mouth of the target; pepper spray on clothing or tougher skin has a much reduced effect.

wapedia.mobi...

In one of the Israeli released videos, it shows a commando with the "paintball" gun leveled at a protester's face.

[edit on 5/31/2010 by clay2 baraka]

Originally posted by SpectreDC
See, I don't understand people saying "they know what they are provoking".

Whether or not this flotilla was provoking a response one way or another from the Israelis is certainly debatable. However, my comments are not concerned with that but only the incident that lead to this bloodshed. In that being that when you attack armed soldiers, for whatever reason, there is going to be a violent response. Blood will be spilled and lives lost.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ

Originally posted by chaosinorder
reply to post by MorfeuZ

 

www.youtube.com...

See the video

Do you really blieve that this video shows the beginning of the operation?

With all the captions put in by the IDF? REALLY???

Exactly. Considering Israel has had 24 hours to spin and cut and paste and concoct, I wouldn't be suprised if by this tomorrow they will report finding Adolf Eichman and Osama Bin Laden amongst the dead counted.


The crime scene has been tainted when the murderers are conducting the investigation.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Do you really believe that this video shows the beginning of the operation?

With all the captions put in by the IDF? REALLY???

Can you tell us why the video is wrong, does not show what it claims or is otherwise false? In response to video evidence, all you have managed is a weak "kill the messenger" non-sequitur.

Thumbs up Black ops, way up

reply to post by clay2 baraka


yeah its a ram air marker...whether they had pepper balls is not clear, VERY doubtfull at the range that these would be used , as much chance of peppering yourself....and id rather be facing one than a real m4 .......

nothing "weaponised " about it...and far less deadly than an iron bar imo...tbh

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by SpectreDC
See, I don't understand people saying "they know what they are provoking".

Whether or not this flotilla was provoking a response one way or another from the Israelis is certainly debatable. However, my comments are not concerned with that but only the incident that lead to this bloodshed. In that being that when you attack armed soldiers, for whatever reason, there is going to be a violent response. Blood will be spilled and lives lost.

When you assault a vessel on International Waters, you are committing piracy and those on board will typically act in self-defense. You are arguing the point AFTER the IDF boarded the ship...I'm arguing them boarding the ship in the first place....They had 0 reason to board the ship....Their were atleast 10 other options they could have used instead of assaulting the vessel. PERIOD

Originally posted by Dynamitrios
reply to post by Skellon

 

I'm sorry, but if you rappel onto someone's ship from a helicopter, nothing you subsequently do can be called "self defense"

Hi Dynamitrios,

They were warned about what would happen should they choose to attempt this.

They attempted it anyway. >.<

Added to this a few of the 'peaceful activists' were wearing gas masks and had melee weapons convieniently at their disposal. The use of gas masks was obvious; to counter the expected use of gas.

So lets go back over this shall we? You are warned to not proceed on your 'crusade' by an authority in the region that is your destination. Instead of realising that your journey will amount to nothing, you choose to ignore the warning and go anyway, packing a gas mask, metal bar and a knife for your voyage.

So, these 'innocents' had a plan before they left dock. Their plan was to defy a warning, resist any attempt to prevent them making it to their chosen destination and incite international condemnation on Israel through any confrontation it warned them about; The 'innocents' were well aware of the press onboard.

Hardly anything is black and white in the real world. If you believe everything you hear, Israel continues to commit atrocities and crimes against humanity, murdering poor innocents as a past time.

However I do not believe everything I hear.

I have noticed that when Hamas or Hizbullah fire rockets at the civilian population of Israel it is reported in a 'matter of fact' manner.

If Israel responds to an attack it is labelled as a bloodthirsy brutal murderer.

This brings me onto the controversial yet commonly seen example of Israel's 'atrocities'. Does it strike anyone as strange that no matter whom Israel targets, they almost always end up killing women and children for the most part?

Israel is known in the military community for being one of the most highly trained, highly experienced military forces in the world

The Israeli special forces 'Sayeret Matkal' were modelled on the British SAS and even share the same 'Who Dares Wins' motto, the same special forces you saw board that ship under orders. The very same special forces that did not fast rope down with guns blazing. They were there under orders to detain the passengers and search the cargo.

Yet if we believe everything we see on TV then they must surely train in killing women and children as a priority? I call Horse S*it!

I am sure we are all aware that teenagers, being easily influenced and hormonally imblalanced are drawn in towards violent opportunities like moths to a flame, check footage of riots throughout the world, it is the youngsters that usually see the opportunity to vent their teenage anxt by way of throwing missiles and sadly in some cases children firing arms in the air, inspired ny their older brothers or fathers.

An example: If you are a soldier and a teenager shoots at you with an automatic weapon, out of self preservation and orders to engage hostiles you return fire, killing him/her. Later that teenagers body will be on the news, minus the weapon and you will have brought international condemnation upon your country.

Conflict is a terrible thing, violence is a terrible thing but try to see through the foul smelling bulls*hit that is one sides propoganda. Civilian lives are lost in conflicts, it is very unfortunate but if you were not there when the shots were being fired, how the hell can you judge and then form an opinion based on what is, at best, third hand information of the event, and at worst, pure propoganda.

Both sides are guilty of killing innocents. Unless one side has not killed innocents, you cannot demonise one and make victims of the other.

Israel had no right to board that ship in international waters, however, had they left it until they entered Israeli waters, the same thing would have happened.



[edit on 31-5-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
In one of the Israeli released videos, it shows a commando with the paintball gun leveled at a protester's face.

Which will hurt like hell (I can tell you from experience) and could possibly (though not necessarily and in most circumstances not) kill someone. However, considering the mayhem on the deck, that is a reasonable response.

Good coverage, even though it's Fox.



You can see after they threw the IDF soldiers to the ground and stole their weapons, they fired the guns... After 5 minutes, the commanders gave the go ahead to engage.

Israel just looks for the smallest of excuses to kill every time.

Last time some Hamas terrorist shot a firework into israel and injured one person..... what do they do? Bomb the entire city, mosques, UN offices, schools, homes... killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians. And I bet no more than 10 of those killed were actually Hamas agents.


This time.... they board a ship in international waters, armed with guns. Then when they get hit by sticks and stones, they kill 19.

Pathetic.