Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by clay2 baraka

 

yeah its a ram air marker...whether they had pepper balls is not clear, VERY doubtfull at the range that these would be used , as much chance of peppering yourself....and id rather be facing one than a real m4 .......

nothing "weaponised " about it...and far less deadly than an iron bar imo...tbh

Peppering yourself. . . while firing CS gas. . ?!
I can think of no assault force in the world. . Including the Khazakhi's (sorry Borat) , that decide to charge in an assault without head/face/lung protection.

[edit on 5/31/2010 by clay2 baraka]

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by makeitso

 

We cannot know what goes on the Israeli government's minds, but it is pretty simple to see that blockading aid will result in shortages.

The specific law says its illegal to have a blockade just to starve the people. It says nothing about shortages. You have not provided evidence the law is broken based on your statement above.

The blockade is not a total stoppage of humanitarian aid. Its sole purpose does not appear to be to starve people. Rather it is a method used to check all goods going into Gaza, to help prevent weaponry entering.

Since January 2009, more than a million tons of humanitarian aid have been transferred into Gaza. In the first quarter of 2010 alone, almost 100,000 tons of supplies have been provided, including 48,000 tons of food products, approximately 550 tons of milk powder and baby food, 2700 tons of rice, 40,000 tons of wheat, 185 tons of aggregates, 2000 tons of clothing and footwear, 20 tons of iron, 25 tons of cement and more than 1000 tons of medicine and medical equipment. The fuel and electricity needs are similarly being met, and hundreds of Palestinians from Gaza come to Israel for medical treatment.

gov.il

b) is an important point. The blockade is out of proportion to the threat. It is not just me saying that, government officials say it. Heck even Tony Blair said it 2 years ago.

I agree. b) is important. But someone saying it is out of proportion to the threat is not evidence. An International Court will require evidence that b) is being broken. In fact, b) is a little vauge. It does not provide a means to measure what out of proportion means. It will be difficult to prove in court without a means to measure it.

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by clay2 baraka

 

yeah its a ram air marker...whether they had pepper balls is not clear, VERY doubtfull at the range that these would be used , as much chance of peppering yourself....and id rather be facing one than a real m4 .......

nothing "weaponised " about it...and far less deadly than an iron bar imo...tbh

Peppering yourself. . . while firing CS gas. . ?!
I can think of no assault force in the world. . Including the Khazakhi's (sorry Borat)

, that decide to charge in an assault without head/face/lung protection.

[edit on 5/31/2010 by clay2 baraka]

well in the video , many assaulters dont appear to be wearing protection , hence mentioning it.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

o.50 1 soldier in standard idf mask ..one wearing no mask

Could anybody provide a link to casualties before the assault , as I cannot find any evidence , just heresay?same as shelling from IN ships..

[edit on 31-5-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by FredT
Whats really odd about the IDF footage is the way they are repelling to the deck. Its almost as if its recreational repelling (ie taking ones time) rather than an actual combat repell from a chopter. Ive seen an entire Ranger team egress from a Blackhawk and they had a large number of people on the ground in a a really rapid fashion.

They 'fast-roped' down into a crowd on a deck of a ship on "high seas" (some deck roll involved), common sense would dictate that you do not rappel down at speed, blindly.

You have obviously witnessed a demonstration by rangers or if it was in an actual operation then it was not directly into a crowd on a rolling deck.

Originally posted by Concept X
Israeli army releases 'flotilla footage'

news.bbc.co.uk...

"Pro-Palestinian campaigners say the soldiers opened fire unprovoked when they landed on the aid-carrying ships." - Doesn't look that way to me...

Watch the video on that please, you can clearly see Israeli troops coming down onto the boat via helicopter and as soon as they land, the activists on the boat rush in and start to beat and attack the soldiers.

In my opinion, its no wonder shots were fired and people died, to me it looks like self defence.

I don't think any of it is right, but i don't think people should start to blame Israel so quickly when they are greeted in such a manner (Obviously they are not going to be very welcomed, but if the activists didn't start attacking and throwing the Israeli soldiers overboard as soon as the landed, i don't think it would of ended with death).

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Concept X]

Watch the long version of the video...not the cut down/sound bite.
Before the comandoes repel onto the deck the protesters had allready sustained casualties and death's...
Look's to me like the protesters were acting in self defence to me.

Originally posted by FredT
Whats really odd about the IDF footage is the way they are repelling to the deck. Its almost as if its recreational repelling (ie taking ones time) rather than an actual combat repell from a chopter. Ive seen an entire Ranger team egress from a Blackhawk and they had a large number of people on the ground in a a really rapid fashion.

Are you implying that the footage could have been staged, after the assault?

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by FredT
Whats really odd about the IDF footage is the way they are repelling to the deck. Its almost as if its recreational repelling (ie taking ones time) rather than an actual combat repell from a chopter. Ive seen an entire Ranger team egress from a Blackhawk and they had a large number of people on the ground in a a really rapid fashion.

Are you implying that the footage could have been staged, after the assault?

Quite possible

Originally posted by mack37
Watch the long version of the video...not the cut down/sound bite.
Before the comandoes repel onto the deck the protesters had allready sustained casualties and death's...
Look's to me like the protesters were acting in self defence to me.

Do you have a link to this longer version of the video? Apologies if it has been posted earlier, but things tend to get lost or missed in threads this large.

Here is a fairly recent article on CNN regarding the issue.

Headline: Security Council holds emergency session on storming of flotilla


www.cnn.com...

Why does the USA continue to give Israel billions of our money? Is it they big of a deal to have them in our back pocket now that we are in Iraq? wtf? Screw Israel. They're nothing without the USA and Britain.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

Hamas was working with European politicians and an 86 year-old Holocaust survivor?

(Yes I will keep bringing this up until it is addressed)

Well it looks like Hamas found itself some corrupt politicians and an 86 year old patsy. So what else is new? The question is...... Do you believe that Hamas is a terrorist organization?

[edit on 31-5-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Originally posted by little_green_man
Quite possible

REDACTED. Unnecessary for this thread. My apologies.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by gambon
well in the video , many assaulters dont appear to be wearing protection , hence mentioning it.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

o.50 1 soldier in standard idf mask ..one wearing no mask

Which is odd. . . if you have deployed tear gas. .

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Good coverage, even though it's Fox.

You can see after they threw the IDF soldiers to the ground and stole their weapons, they fired the guns... After 5 minutes, the commanders gave the go ahead to engage.

Yes I sure can see IDF Soldiers illegally boarding a craft with a military aim and being attacked by people armed with makeshift weapons at their disposal.

This makes the Israeli's innocent of what?

Now as far as the news piece, it's a pannel of COMMENTATORS and spin doctors talking more about politicized history to justify Israeli agression and past attrocities than what actually happned in relation to this event.

Commentators who in fact were rather subdued and shifting their eyes either guiltily or jovialy because they knew they were purposefully engaged in a propaganda and disinformation effort meant to distort facts.

Pretty shameless, that people consider such here say and politically aimed speculation to be news.

reply to post by clay2 baraka


No, I cannot say that based on just this one video, but when you watch the repell they seem to be going really slow compared to other times i have seen a fast rope live. Its

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Actually that is not the question. I have not stated that Hamas is good.

I asked if Hamas is working with European politicians and a woman who survived the Holocaust, whose entire family, except 2, was murdered by the nazis. Yeah, she would absolutely be prone to working with terrorists who fight Israel.

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by gambon
well in the video , many assaulters dont appear to be wearing protection , hence mentioning it.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

o.50 1 soldier in standard idf mask ..one wearing no mask

Which is odd. . . if you have deployed tear gas. .

YES...exactly my point , hence me doubting they used pepper balls or any tpe of gas , substance, equiptment which would make visibility worse on a relatively small ship

basically using gas on a windy ship is a bit pointless

[edit on 31-5-2010 by gambon]

I'm looking forward to the "sure to happen" SANCTIONS imposed on Israel.


Kim Jong will be sitting around saying, "WTF?"

On Channel 4 news, George Galloway reports that he recieved a text from one of the activists on the Mavi Mamara as they were just pulling into the Israeli port of Ashdod reporting that 29, REPEAT 29 passengers are confirmed dead.

www.channel4.com...

The video is loacated at the bottom right hand side.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Good coverage, even though it's Fox.

You can see after they threw the IDF soldiers to the ground and stole their weapons, they fired the guns... After 5 minutes, the commanders gave the go ahead to engage.

thanks for sharing that with us I heard a local political party spokesman over here on the news saying the exact same thing about UNRWA, they dont starve up there, while they have high unemployment over there, thats because its run by Islamic terrorist/criminals who only care about weaponry getting into Gaza..
So then, i would dare all the ATS-ers over here what they think about the Egyptian (sout-western)blockade of Gaza, how about that? I'll happily wait for your answer..

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Foppezao]