Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



I agree with you post for the most part. I, for one, want to see Vinny explain himself further. I think his Masonic, affiliation, if any is relevant to the topic and he needs to demonstrate that he is indeed, as he claims, a Mason.

I have already asked him twice to ellucidate on the subject of what transpired at the meeting he purportedly attended. It would behoove him to exlain to all posters what, if anything, occured.

I will do my best to remain on topic but as much as your post was an appeal to do so you will see that not more than two posts later we are completely off topic with Kennedy conspiracies which have nothing to do with this thread. I think there is a serious divide here but I will do my best to bridge it with any help I can offer.

reply to post by jackflap


I'm glad that you brought your post in on topic JackFlap, this whole thread is brimming with vitriol and to no purpose but the espousal of personal prejudices.

I was interested by the "Pagan Mystery School" reference and especially in the context of Emanationist Philosophy.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I think there is a serious divide here but I will do my best to bridge it with any help I can offer.

That is very kind of you sir. I would ask you, after reading your credentials, if Vinny's claim of the Masonic religion being that of some Pagan Mystery Schools has any credence? Does this line up with anything you've learned?

reply to post by jackflap


Masonry does not have an official religion. It is incumbant upon the indivdual Mason to bring his own beliefs to the Fraternity. No one ever asks what religion you are, only if you believe in a Supreme Being.

I have been asked many times, "What do you call God?"

The answer, to me, is simple, "God."

The Pagan Mystery school aspect has not been something I have come across and I am involved with several Masonic research and awreness committees as this aspect of Masonry interests me. There are similarities to some of the older mystery school but overt Paganism is not something I would attribute to Masonry.

Hopefully this helps, but the best person to answer the more esoteric portions of the Fraternity is MasonicLight as he has much more experience with other schools and systems.



[edit on 23-4-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by jackflap

This is by far the least interesting thing Vinny mentioned in his opening post and I really believe we should concentrate on the other aspects of his claims with the same fervor. Like when Vinny said that he was told that they hold the secrets of the ages. Or that their religion is in fact that of some Pagan Mystery Schools.

Vinnie touched on some very interesting and thought provoking things in his hasty way.

Hopefully if at all possible he will rejoin the thread at some future point.

The New Atlantis concepts of Bacon are a fascinating potential part of Masonry, and whether they stem from some direct and inherited knowledge of Atlantis.

So to are the Pagan Gods, many of them whom represent the critical elements for sustaining human life.

One could argue that we still know so little about the actual mechanics of the universe and life.

Religions have been known to get in the way of those explorations and investigations.

Of course while someone might claim they have such secrets, to someone like Vincent, doesn't mean that Vincent was told the secrets, or might have understood them well, or retained them well if they did.

Still I would have loved to have had the opportunity to interact with Vincent and find out more of what he might be willing to reveal and share.

Thanks for the kind words my friend, and those keen observations!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Masonry does not have an official religion. It is incumbant upon the indivdual Mason to bring his own beliefs to the Fraternity. No one ever asks what religion you are, only if you believe in a Supreme Being.

This we all already know. The real question is not about what someone has to believe when they join, but about what they are taught to believe as they progress? Or is it just the natural course of the belief system for someone to end up at the Pagan Mystery Schools as they progress?

Have you ever noticed anything along these lines as you've progressed? Is a belief system implied and than brought to fruition as you gain more degrees?

I always read these type threads and I am always let down. If it is true then the only way I would believe it is if you posted a pic with YOU standing next to Joe Biden at the lodge in Italy....Wait...Joe Biden a nights templar (LOL)...

Anyhoo... The next person that wants to talk about how they have been a part of some secret meeting better include a pic of YOURSELF and some head of state cheesin' while discussing the end of the world!!

Otherwise don't bother... it just frustrates me

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

 

Ditto. Vinny was bullied by those he esteemed - after asking for leniency. Now he is gone. Mission accomplished: Witness silenced. I'm out of here too. Let this become a Masonic Templar denial thread. RIP


GS

reply to post by jackflap


No, there is no progressive movement to push your towards any different belief or religion. There is no goal to reach religiously, it is more about self improvement and helping others. Spiritual satisfaction and improvement are the goal, not trying to alter a members religious belief system.

if what he is saying is true, and that PDF file is true i am all for it. Religion has no place on Earth. Look at how the Christians and Catholics hate the jews, look at how the Muslims hate the Christians. Look at how we don't help the Africans because they do not have a religion worthy of "your" religion. It all has to stop and we need to make this world safe for everyone.

I believe every word of your story. Heck I've seen stateside EA's turn into Tree-Tu's, in a day....part of some state's recruiting due to lack of young blood. It's not cool because you're basically told everything to say. No real study and retainment of what's truly important.

Once you enter this world, lot of things open up to you. However, if you haven't learned already, security is key and the details you gave in your initial post, SUPER Easy to find you if they wished. The choice is now in your hands. Also there are always recognizable people and you got your first taste, is a shock to some people. In a small town it's the Pillars of the Community, pun intended. When it's a large city, especially in a Mediterranean Lodge in Italy these are natural venues for traveler’s and is quite normal. Use MS Word when composing correspondence (F7 Key is Spell-check). Not everyone is a wordsmith but if you’re going to write something of value, take the time and effort to make it worthwhile. Plus as an added bonus, simple minded douche-canoes will have one less thing to pick at. Remember; do not throw pearls before swine. Let a fool suffer a fool’s folly. It’s not necessarily the secret that is important either, it’s how it is guarded. If I really had information that was valuable, I would give you the craziest bit of reasonably believable information that I could and watch you. Please self-reflect on this and realize your error. This is the way of initiation, until the student is ready the teacher will come. Knock on the door sure, but don’t whisper what you see to others who won’t believe you it’s fruitless.

Realize, most of the people on here are at worst porn addicted basement dwellers and at best hard working people intermittently interested in juicy stories. It’s cool to have an open mind, but not so much your brains fall out.

BTW, I am not a FM, but simply a veteran of the human experience at the lowest and highest levels of society. Live your life as you see fit, drop all guilt, and press on seeking light, not bogged down in the darkness with rumor mongers. Secrets are Sacred Things to those who are WORTHY, let the worthless suffer Knowledge. Knowledge changes, Truth is eternal.

Prudence is key. Fiat Lux!

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Vinnyboy is an EA as far as I know. He asked me for some help and I contacted EMSED1. From there I think he made the proper introductions. I have no reason to think Vinnyboy is anything other than truthful at this time. I wanted to make sure all the masons know they are most likely addressing a brother, not a crack pot.

Now whether or not he was initiated or not, to me as an ATS member, is irrelevant. He was in contact with masons, full stop.

I cannot find any reference to this particular issue being resolved yet. 2 masons on this forum can conclusively answer the question that other masons are asking. Do the masons confirm or deny his association with them?

I have no bond here. I'm nothing more than an initiate.

These weren't run of the mill masons.

Can you prove that you are a Free Mason, op?

I have family members in these organizations and while I cannot directly dispute your claims because I'm not in any myself, I do not believe my family would ever be involved in this sort of criminal enterprise that you describe.

The fact that you have yet to name any names and the fact that you have yet to prove in any way that you are any more of a Free Mason than I am and the fact that you have been called out on this and ignored it really shows just how 'valid' your story seems at this point.

This is ATS, people are going to believe your slander because they want to. They want to believe that you got into a super secret meeting and were just freely told of the evils of the organization with them not knowing you at all.

I find this hard to believe because my own family doesn't tell me anything except that the Masons "can't even organize a fundraising dinner effectively."

I really feel like you are attacking a large group of very good and noble people for the purposes of shock and fame on ATS. I don't think you understand how wrong it is to bear false witness against others (and I am not religious).

Why didn't you take any pictures with your cell phone, or use your cell phone's 'audio record' function?

At this point your entire story is hearsay, I could have easily done the same and I would have been able to seem more legitimate than you because I could have called for instance my uncle and begged and begged him without saying why to tell me "something cool" about the masons that "most people wouldn't know" and used that to prove that I was a mason.

You on the other hand claim to have been invited to an extremely high up event as an extremely low level mason to be a "translator" who by your own admission helped not at all, and on top of that you say that things were translated to you, which I don't get.

As I said before while I don't know the secrets of the Masons I don't need to, they are not Satanists, my grandfather is a devout Catholic. What have you done for your church? My grandfather built parts of his with his hands.

What have you done for your community? My grandfather built parts of it with his hands.

Because of the good works and high honor of my grandfather I know that you are bearing false witness. My grandfather would not be best friends with one of the highest masons in the entire country were they evil or doing the things you claim. You underestimate people in your story and that is what gives it away as false. The free masons are not the skull and bones society or the illuminati.

Also, being an initiate you would not be invited to a secret mason meeting with "names who cannot be named." Seriously man, my family are masons and I've never been invited to anything.

This idea that because you are an initiate you suddenly have all these dark secrets is absurd. I want to see proof of your status and proof that you were at that meeting.

Here's a question.

Did they keep a register of attendees?

[edit on 23-4-2010 by sremmos]

Originally posted by harryhaller
Now whether or not he was initiated or not, to me as an ATS member, is irrelevant. He was in contact with masons, full stop.

So are you saying that if he were lying about that aspect of his story it would not affect your opinion of him in regards his truthfulness?

I cannot find any reference to this particular issue being resolved yet. 2 masons on this forum can conclusively answer the question that other masons are asking. Do the masons confirm or deny his association with them?

Only Vinny can confirm that right now. He was asked two very easy questions to answer which would immediately prove or disprove his claims. I can think of several more which would also verify or dispel his claims.

Originally posted by VinnyboyXI
reply to post by Rosha

 

I have no bond here. I'm nothing more than an initiate.

That really is good enough for me to accept his credentials. Despite some conflicting statements, he makes it clear he is not a "full" mason.

Do you have reason to doubt this statement? If so, why? (and his non appearance is not really a suitable answer. I imagine his head is a busy place right now, if indeed he's followed this conversation) Be creative.

Is there some factor that stops one of the masons from confirming this information? Or am i even correct in assuming that this information is accesable by any mason who has contributed to this thread already? Can i ask these questions?

I feel like i'm playing poker with someone who insists on seeing my cards, but won't return the favour. I would also like to note the lack of curiosity by the masons as to exactly what was going on, in their name.

To be fair ... it's a 50/50 chance that this story is true, and if it is, and even if only a partial view of the whole story, still merits investigation.

What happened in Italy?

Originally posted by harryhaller
That really is good enough for me to accept his credentials. Despite some conflicting statements, he makes it clear he is not a "full" mason.

You did not answer my question. What if he is lying, how does that affect your opinion?

Do you have reason to doubt this statement? If so, why?

Yes, I do.

I gave my reasons earlier in the thread. The time-line is much too short for this to have happened in the proper manner. By his own addmission he had not even been initiated in March. He never read Emsed's U2U on who to contact so I doubt he even was investigated by his prospective lodge.

Is there some factor that stops one of the masons from confirming this information? Or am i even correct in assuming that this information is accesable by any mason who has contributed to this thread already? Can i ask these questions?

This information is not readily available unless he provides his name and lodge number which I am not going to ask him to give to me, he would have to volunteer that data.

You most certainly can ask these questions, this is nothing secret or covert.

I feel like i'm playing poker with someone who insists on seeing my cards, but won't return the favour. I would also like to note the lack of curiosity by the masons as to exactly what was going on, in their name.

I think I have been rather forthright in my opinions and with answering questions. If you feel I have not answered you fully please let me know and I will elaborate as much as possible.

My lack of curiosity stems from the fact that this 'group' really looks like a psuedo-Masonic group to me. Their missions statement, for lack of a better phrase, is so counter to what I feel Masonry is about that I doubt their relation to any mainstream Masonic orginization. So I feel that they do not speak for Masonry as a whole but only for themselves. Their opinion, to me, is worthless.

To be fair ... it's a 50/50 chance that this story is true, and if it is, and even if only a partial view of the whole story, still merits investigation.

I agree. I have attempted to moderate my stance and await further information.

What happened in Italy?

I have no clue as I had not heard of this until the thread appeard. The only person who was privy to that information opted not to share it when requested.

reply to post by YourPopRock


What you mean by this? "Oh, and for our little Bob Marley fan (note, clearly an indication of his ability to think straight)"
For someone who knows Bob Marley work and life, he was a great mind, much bigger than yours, look into his work and see if your million dollars a years is anything compared with Robert Nesta Marley work!!!!!!

reply to post by harryhaller


I stepped in because I think Vinny was being truthful. To a point. I really think he misconstrued what he saw and heard. Like any part about it being a regular masonic event. Someone not involved with masonry would have a very hard time understanding what it takes to become a mason. I won't say it's hard work, it's rewarding work. And those who have done the work and continue to do so, are very critical of someone trying to trash what they are building. I don't think Vinny was intentionally trying to "bring down the masons", I think he got over excited and may have missed some key points in his information. (like verifying that the group he was dealing with was mainstream masonry and not some mail order money house as this seems to be)

If in fact Vinny is a young man who frequents conspiracy sites such as this one, then I can see how he could get over excited about what he claims to have seen. I will also admit that I am a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason in North Carolina and I have never been to a masonic even outside of my state. I have no idea what goes on in South Carolina, let alone Italy.

I wish Vinny would have had a chance to tell some more of his story and be asked some questions before he was gassed up and set aflame. But I have no control over that.

I was not aware of the fact that Vinny had not read Emsed1's U2U. that is an interesting twist and needs to be answered.

To my brethren on this site: Please don't take anything I said here personally, had I not been involved first hand, I may have been in the same frame of mind.

Originally posted by network dude
To my brethren on this site: Please don't take anything I said here personally, had I not been involved first hand, I may have been in the same frame of mind.

Never, and the same goes for you.

Except this.....

I get beer.