Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

This whole thread makes me so sad, to see such gulllible people. Secrets are secrets. Page after page, after the original opening post, you are all still discussing, and villafying the poster.

Don't any of you have anything else to do?

Nothing you will post here, and some remarks are, oh my gosh, so rude, will get you answers, unless from the original source.

Not happening.

Next?

reply to post by KSigMason

I'm glad you appreciate it. I respond to people how they address me. You give hostility, I give it. You are civil, I am civil.

I am not quite so submissive, just because one person is ill-mannered towards me, doesn’t mean I have to stoop to that level. I consider responses to be intellectual, and considered, while I consider reactions to be emotional.

To truly be a Master one must first Master them selves, and allowing others to set the tone for any encounter in such a binding way, surely would require the other being in control.

I do though, quite naturally find it more productive to engage people on the intellectual versus the emotional level.

Can you prove that Freemasonry has stolen anything? Our charity is funded through private donations and some fundraisers. We steal nothing. Can you prove any wrongdoing on the part of the Fraternity? Anything concrete?

Why yes I can! Freemasonry in fact stole most of North America from its original inhabitants, after conspiring to defraud and rob the Kings of England, Spain, the Netherlands, and France, from the lands they had conspired to steal from the First Nation’s peoples themselves.

Though they were more adept at defrauding the indigenous natives, than their European Masters, they then conspired to steal from, and defraud, the profanes of Europe, inhabiting said American continent, to tax them, to pay for the purchase of the stakes of the European Monarchs in order to establish a ruling, controlling and governing body.

It’s all in the Treaty of Paris and the United States Constitution, laid out in black and white. Reading can be your friend!

As for other occurrences, well, I try not to sweat the small stuff.

While many of meetings are private, we hold many events where our wives can attend and we also strive to keep the women involved.

It’s always a good idea to make some attempt to keep the women folk happy! Much luck with that?

You never answered me nor my other posts about my credentials as a Mason. Would you like pictures? I have no problem posting some pictures.

That’s kind of you, but entirely unnecessary, it matters not one hair to me, who is a Mason and who is a profane.

At the end of the day, both must render unto Caesar, that which is Caesars’, and my particular fascination and investigative study of the World Wide Roman Shadow Government, is what piqued my interest in Vincent’s story.

I was naturally disappointed some, did not exercise greater care, in eliciting the details of it.

What’s done is done, no use crying over spilt milk. Perhaps Vincent will return to ATS one day, and we will all have another chance, at questioning him, more civilly and objectively.




[edit on 23/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


the great "red" dragon.
it's "fiery serpent" a seraph, a dragon.
an angellic being from an angellic race of serpents.
et. al, from the outset, the serpent was a serpent (not a snake)
and they were also around god's throne. they never stopped being
around god's throne, so that means some dragons are not bad.
it's a logic puzzle. however, the details of the dragons around god's
throne who are not bad, are not identified as dragons in the text,
even though they are dragons!
which means it's gonna be real easy to confuse people who don't
study the text that indepth, or who have studied it from a different perspective, in an attempt to dismiss it entirely. that's where the real trouble will start.

Way to go guys, some one brings something to the table and you jump on them, smash them to bits, then continue to fight amongst yourselves for 30 pages. Yep, thats gotta be the way to get to the truth. And now Ive joined in, why?. Because negative mud slinging is contagious, every one wants to be the one to have the final word. Its a shame that I wont be that "one", because some one will surely have to knock me too, even though I haven't mentioned the topic of this thread yet, but hey that was never that important right? so long as ATS is a place where people can negatively and unnecessarily bag the crap out of others, it will never be a place of real progress. ATS conspiracy website, yeah right, ATS is a Conspiracy.

Now, tell me what a dikhed I am...

Wow that was quite a thread.

Did not learn a thing about the thing that was I should have learned.

By the way where is Vin did the bunny rabbit get him.

On to the next thread.

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


I'm interested, have you ever been a mason?
And if not, where exactly did you gather this information which you seem to state as fact?
Also, have you spoken to this Satan (there is more than one, as I'm sure a learned scholar such as yourself is aware) in order to have heard first hand which titles and epithets he likes and dislikes?

reply to post by undo


I absolutely concur. As I stated earlier, it's only reasonable to assume that Lucifer would have the same form as the angelic race he fell from. However, I think the Bible is pretty clear that we should not worship angels, fallen or not.

Originally posted by Saurus
But then again...

Have a look at their photo page. They show a ceremony of theirs in the Rosslyn Chapel.

Pics

Now one must be a seriously impressive conman to get that sort of permission...

[edit on 22/4/2010 by Saurus]

Sorry for coming to this thread so late. No con necessary to get permission to hold this ceremony at Rosslyn Chapel. Sir Ian Sinclair is a direct descendant of Sir William St. Clair, the founder of Rosslyn Chapel. In fact Sir Ian is the keeper of the secrets known only to direct descendants of Sir William St. Clair, secrets which are only passed down to direct male descendants.

I have been in Sir Ians company on a few occasions, and have been inside his house at Noss Head, in the far north of Scotland. There can be no doubt that Sir Ian Sinclair has a direct connection with the original Knights Templar, however the connection between modern Freemasonry and the Knights Templar must remain circumspect.

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


what's the definition of an angel?
son of god
what's the definition of yeshua?
son of god
how are they the same?
sons of god
(don't worry, i know the difference)

ever read anything by michael s. heiser? he's a scholar of ancient hebrew, etc. here's his findings on the word "Elohim"

excerpt from WHAT IS AN ELOHIM? by Michael S. Heiser

It may surprise you, but there are other beings in the Old Testament that are called elohim besides Yahweh and the gods of the divine council. Demons and the spirits of the human dead are also called elohim in the Hebrew text! Angels may also be called elohim, depending on how one takes a text or two. If we don’t come to grips with just what an elohim is, it can create a lot of confusion. We can’t very well have God, the gods, demons, angels, and the spirits of dead people all interchangeable with respect to their attributes! That just makes no sense—and highlights why understanding the term elohim as denoting a certain plane of existence is so critical to getting the Bible’s worldview and its theology right. With Chapter 3 fresh in your mind, you’re familiar with the

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

this guy is a treasure trove of info
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

so what we see there is the phrase "sons of god" and "gods" used interchangeably. when people don't know or read the original languages the texts were written in, they start drawing conclusions on the available english translations that are missing important information and give impressions the text never intended.

i think i've found out what the problem is but it requires you accept sumerian texts as having relevancy to biblical texts, and sitchin has kinda ruined that for most christians.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

I'm interested, have you ever been a mason?

No, by the grace of God.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
And if not, where exactly did you gather this information which you seem to state as fact?

Specifically which "information" might you be referring to? Most of the information I've provided has either come straight from the same books that adorn the shelves of every Masonic lodge or first-hand testimonies from ex-masons.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
Also, have you spoken to this Satan (there is more than one, as I'm sure a learned scholar such as yourself is aware) in order to have heard first hand which titles and epithets he likes and dislikes?

Again, no by the grace of God (and thank you for your kind patronization BTW). I was alluding to the fact that most Luciferians will outwardly deny that Lucifer and Satan are the same entity, but when it comes down to the core of the matter, there is simply no getting around it. Honestly, I can see why they would want to deny association with that name. Satan just sounds so much more sinister than Lucifer, the morning star doesn't it?

reply to post by Afewloosescrews

Then I would say, continue following your path if it suits you. As a 32nd degree mason, you're bound to possess the "seething energies of Lucifer" which your brotherhood patriarchs have promised you soon. Just know that there will be a point of no return (if you haven't already reached it).

Interesting.. because the stories told in Masonry are allegories on Biblical text.. specifically from the Old Testament (Scottish Rite) .. all teachings of morality are derived from the most common used Holy Book of our Membership, the Bible. If we are adhering, accidentally or purposefully, to such evil as "Lucifer" then we have only the Holy Book to blame.

You're the one who should have the answers to those questions...after all, I could never know the full extent of your "secret" dealings.

But.... if you don't know ... how can you be so sure? It's a pretty bold statement to say someone worships Satan, especially without proof? It's like me saying you're a child molester. You can tell me all you want that your not, but I'm not swaying my mind.. you're a child molester until you can prove your not.

Lovely logic huh?

for ample evidence of the clear Luciferian philosophies which permeate Freemasonry.

I've read some of those books already, and some of Pikes work (I admit I am not a Pike fan) .. but I have never seen anything specifically evil about Pikes work (except that it's boring).

reply to post by Lindsay


Welcome to the Secret Societies Forum. It can get bitter here.. but, all in good fun of course. I don't think I've ever seen a thread last more than a few pages before the usual brawl breaks out.

reply to post by undo


All very interesting. I know that the term elohim was used in the Bible to refer to different heavenly entities. It is very clear to me that there are powerful spiritual beings that dwell in a different plane; some good, some not, and we should have a healthy reverence for them, but this does not mean that we are to worship them. Scripture makes if very clear that Jehova, the Almighty God is the only being who is worthy of our worship.

Not trying to be difficult, but I'm still a little bit uncertain as to where you stand, and what point exactly you're trying to make? Could you possibly elaborate on what you believe in terms of God, Satan, the angels, etc?

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


Some interesting Etymology (I love Etymology, it's a past time of mine)

O.E. Lucifer "Satan," also "morning star," from L. Lucifer "morning star," lit. "light-bringing," from lux (gen. lucis) + ferre "carry" (see infer). Belief that it was the proper name of Satan began with its used in Bible to translate Gk. Phosphoros, which translates Heb. Helel ben Shahar in Isaiah xiv.12 -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" [KJV] The verse was interpreted by Christians as a reference to "Satan," because of the mention of a fall from Heaven, even though it is literally a reference to the King of Babylon (cf. Isaiah xiv.4). Lucifer match "friction match" is from 1831.

www.etymonline.com...

Lucifer in Latin was the name of Venus (Morning Star) .. the brightest object in the sky before the sun rose and the moon fades. The reference to the Babylonian King being Lucifer (Morning Star, bearer of Light) was probably a poetic analogy of a King once considered Enlightened to fall from grace.

Christian Scholars butchered much of the text while translating the Bible into English (even into Latin) and other languages.. I would not put so much in store to names .. but into actions.. we very well could worship a God and call it Lucifer.. but if our actions are genuine, if our hearts are pure, and our intentions well founded... are we still evil men? You're simply to quick to accuse and judge people based on your own belief system and a misunderstanding of what it means to actually be "evil" ..

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


Just to add.. I don't care if you like Masonry or not. But if you're going to hate us, I'd prefer it be on a rational reason and not a fabricated one.. blind hate is a curse on this planet and our race ..

Click here for more information.

I dont know much about the masons but I knew that they were connected to the knights templar(i read it in a book at barnes and noble.)
From what i have read here, that is about the only thing vinny has stated. If he indeed really did go to the meeting and if he really does feel he could be endangered by saying info he learned, then why keep nagging him for it? Apparently a life doesnt matter now a days.
Take his word or not.
A bunch of you are being ignorant just because you've been masons longer and you feel it is your esteemed duty criticize harshly for no apparant reason. Apparently manners arent apart of the masonic code.
Go read a book.
And for the stars and flag boosting comment, why does it really matter? Stars and flags are some made up shiz like you call this story. You cant hold on to em, cant sell em for money. So at the end of the day do you lay in bed saying "gee today has been a very productive day. I got 5 stars on a thread i wrote. God im amazing"
I never knew punctuation was so important to tell a lie from a truth.
I hate egotistical people
But you can sell jewelry
Enough said


[edit on 23-4-2010 by Destiny Curious]

Click here for more information.

'Christians may be offended by Masonry's obsession with things Egyptian, although agnostics may feel the afterlife offered by Osiris is more attractive than the Christian prospectus of Purgatory, Heaven or Hell.

Either way, 'profane' students suspect that today's Masonic spokesmen are denying the brotherhood's past embrace with the gods of the Nile, just to keep present-day Christians at bay.

In Australia, they are not so coy. In 1978 a new Masonic Royal Arch Temple was built in Petersham, New South Wales. The Mayor and other town dignitaries came to the opening and admired the painstaking care with which an Egyptian room had been transferred from the old temple.

Around the walls was a mural of paintings taken from The Book of the Dead, and including images of Isiris 'the god of light and the god of the quick and the dead'

One Royal Arch Mason remarked that his fraternity's love affair with obelisks was nothing more than 'a bunch of pricks in search of needles', but can dabbling in ancient cults be so esaily dismissed ?

Despite the bluster, might any part of Freemasonry go beyond sun-worship or the commemoration of ancient gods into the realms of devil worship ? '

'Inside the Brotherhood
Further Secrets of the Freemasons'
Martin Short
Copyright 1989
ISBN: 0-586-07065-6


'There is a Masonic motto -- Lux e tenebris -- light out of darkness. There is, of course, another bringer of light: the Morning Star. It is odd that the phrase, 'bright morning star' is the only allegedly Christian reference left in the Craft Rituals.

When the two warring Grand Lodges in England -- the Moderns and the Ancients -- were united in 1816, the rituals were revised to exclude all Christian elements

Somehow, the 'bright morning star' was left in, even though it is said to be derived from the last page of the New Testament: ' I Jesus ... am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star' (Revelation, 22:16).

It seems inconceivable that the men who revised the rituals could have accidentally retained a phrase whose derivation and meaning was so obviously Christian, when they scrupulously deleted almost every other New Testament phrase.

Might it have another, another, non-Christian, interpretation which has been overlooked ? As it happens, there is another bringer of light who is also known as the 'morning star': Lucifer

Once common as a poetic name for the planet Venus, Lucifer was the rebel Archangel who fell from Heaven as he tried to dethrone God: ' How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! ' (Isaiah, 14:12). But Lucifer had a great career ahead of him, for he went on to become Satan or the devil -- at least that is how Biblical interpreters saw him.

Is it possible that the Morning Star remained in the ritual, not by mistake, but as a deliberate but cryptic Masonic reference to Lucifer, Satan, the devil ? If so, this would invert the meaning of a crucial section of the third-degree ritual (as follows)

.... ' Let me now beg you to observe that the light of a Master Mason is darkness visible, serving only to express that gloom which rests on the prospect of futurity . . . Be careful to perform your allotted task while it is yet day: continue to listen to the voice of Nature, which bears witness, that in this perishable frame resides a vital and immortal principle, which inspires a holy confidence that the Lord of Life will enable us to trample the King of Terror beneath our feet and lift our eyes to that bright Morning Star, whose rising brings peace and salvation to the faithful and obedient of the human race '.....

To the men who drew up this ritual in 1816, who was the Lord of Life and who was the King of Terror ? Could God be Lucifer and Lucifer God ? Might they be sitting in each other's seats ? Are Masons today inadvertently worshipping the devil instead of a benign God ?

The works of Albert Pike and Aleister Crowley show that men preoccupied with paganism, the devil and the occult are attracted to Masonry, if only (as in Crowley's case) on the way to somewhere else.

It is also true that Crowley's appetite for mystical satisfaction was matched by his insatiable sexual hunger.

Occult symbols are often also sexual symbols, and in these Freemasonry abounds. What about that vesica piscis which is formed by the square and compass ?

For obvious reasons, the lozenge shape came to symbolised a woman or womankind. In medieval heraldry it became an acute diamond

In Masonic ceremonies the square-and-compass's feminity is complemented by the masculine tools, the level and gavel. The level has the shape of a tau cross

Sigmund Freud was not a Mason, but Freemasonry would have given him unlimited opportunities to enhance even his perceptions of repressed sexuality. It seems 6 million men alive today (in 1989) have been conceived and incubated in a Masonic womb, then 'born again' through 'mother lodges' consisting entirely of men. No wonder they do not let women join !

There are times when the whole of Freemasonry seems like an overgrown schoolboy's morbid fantasy, with war-games thrown in.

The bathos of the Knights Templar, and indeed all Freemasonry, is captured in one tiny old newspaper story:

....' A human skull found at Marple Bridge, Cheshire, has turned out to be a ceremonial relic used by Dukinfield Masonic Lodge. It was thrown out in a pub spring-cleaning'....

selected excerpts from:

'Inside the Brotherhood
Further Secrets of the Freemasons'
Martin Short
Copyright 1989
ISBN: 0-586-07065-6



Interesting are the 'heads' worshipped by the Templars, one of which was claimed as the severed head of Christ, allegedly discovered beneath the alleged Solomon's temple --- and which is believed by many current-day Templars/Freemasons, to now lie beneath Rosslyn Chapel in meticulously created vaults.

Interesting also are the numerous obelisks erected in major world capitals such as Washington, London, etc. Many of the obelisks were removed from Egypt and transported to the West. Others are copies. It's claimed that virtually every town and city in the US contains at least one such obelisk, the vast majority of which were erected by Freemasons

Today Freemasons may deny that any part of their cult hearkens back to the pagan gods of the Nile. Yet in Freemasons' Hall, Dublin, home of the world's second oldest Grand Lodge, the Holy Royal Arch Room contains two large sphinxes and other sculptures aping Ancient Egypt.

In Philadelphia, USA, the Masonic Temple boasts 'the finest specimen of Egyptian deoraction outside Egypt'.

Even London's Great Eastern Hotel at Liverpool Street staion has a magnificent Egyptian Temple for lodges to rent for their ritual nights out.

The most blatant sympbols of Freemasonry's obsession with Egypt are not hidden in its temples. They stand on public view in the centre of London, Paris, New York and Washington.

How they came to erected shows both the immense power of Freemasons in the nineteenth century and their love affair with the most evocative of all Egyptian religion: the obelisk.

Why the obelisk ? To early Egyptians it was the shape sacred to the Sun God Re or Ra: the creator of humanity, the source of all heat and light, the being on whom man was totally dependent. etc.

'Inside the Brotherhood
Further Secrets of the Freemasons'
Martin Short
Copyright 1989
ISBN: 0-586-07065-6


And by this point, people might be remembering the gigantic pyramid recently erected in Paris ?

Not to mention a recent landmark in London, i.e., 'The Eye '


.






[edit on 23-4-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by VinnyboyXI

Obviously no true mason has responded to this post. And if they did I apologize. But it is no secret that the knight templar is apart of masonry. It is just one of many of the lodges and degrees of of masonry. Also have many questions of your visit to this lodge. One you have not state to what degree mason are you. You would never been invited to the lodge of master masons if you where not one yourself. And your interpreter would have to been a mason himself also. Not to say couldn't have been there, and I don't know what the protocol is for attending a lodge of the knights templar. So I am unsure 3rd degree could sit in a lodge of templars. And even so if you could they would only open the lodge to the degree of masonry you are. So if you are a EA then you saw nor heard any more then a EA is allowed to. To me personally there much more to masonry then secrets, mystery and myth. Which for me makes the whole suspect, cause a true mason knows this.