An appeal from a cop...

Originally posted by trlcker98
Oh, its me again ^^^

I forgot about the times I was driving my ice cream truck, which I did for 3 summers.

My first day, I didn't realize how long the truck was and I scraped the fender of an undercover cop car parked outside a house. I knocked on the door of the house and it was the cop, off duty. I explained what happened and he said "Well the police chief is going to have to come down here". They made me get in the back of the car and grilled me and gave me a ticket for reckless driving, which I later fought and got reduced to something else - careless driving I think.

The next summer some cops pulled me over and made me sign a search warrant, giving them permission to search the truck for drugs.

I never did anything wrong! Everyone gets in a fender bender from time to time, but hit a cop car and you get thrown in the back of a patrol car and have to go to court.

Out of curiosity, how exactly did the cops ' make ' you sign a search consent form? Did they use coercion, threats, intimidation or what? If you had nothing there, then had you refused consent the cops would then either go away like they LEGALLY should, or will proceed to search anyway and risk several things..specifically losing any case If contraband were found due to the exclusionary rule, and also risking a lawsuit for obvious violations of rights.

No offense intended, but it sounds like you do not take a stand and are easily bluffed...not many cops will risk being fired, investigated, perhaps by the FBI, charged or worse just so they can search a car that they have no articulable reason to believe contains anything anyway!! Most cops play the bluff to the hilt but will not go too far...if they are asking for a signature they are just hoping you are weak...if you prove strong and unwilling to give away any rights, most cops will relent lest they risk a lot.

Of course some cops are maniacs...every dept. has at least one...a guy that uses maximum force at all times and gets off on seeing people in pain.
They too will trip up and get caught someday...or face worse if they go far too far...but that is a rarity.

What gripes me is the weakness and FEAR that most Americans have of the police. Let's face it, a substantial number of people in this nation are factually guilty of some minor infractions, including mostly drug and alcohol, etc. offenses...the VAST majority of these people are guilty of nothing more than personal possession of small personal use amounts, and thus have great tendency to fear the cops, whereas if the Prohibition era was over, this would not be the case. Prohibition is the root evil of all this drug mess.

With the exception of a few cops that adhere to the spirit of the law and our Rights, most all cops are trained today to act very differntly than in past era's. Why do cops have to tackle people who are surrendering and are following all orders? Why must all arrests start with a citizen having to get face down on the filthy ground, while a cop screams petty commands.." Don't look at me!!"?? It used to be that a cop, all alone, would walk up, handcuff the guy, and be done with it...now they will not approach anyone until they are on the ground. No risk for them.

It is MILITARY influence, and it is not good. People are trained in military thinking to see the ' enemy' and then there are the soldiers on their side...no one else. So we civilians become the enemy when the military mindset is placed on the cops. it is dangerous. SWAT teams are used in MOST cases to execute misdmeanor warrants or for probation violators. Overwhelming force is the starting point and not the ending one.

Think about this for a moment: Cops are smart enough to know that the drug war is and has been a total failure. They know, like anyone with an intellect not marred by a special interest , that for the good of the nation, and the people, and the future, and the kids...we ought to be regulating and controlling all manner of substances so that the criminal cartels will not. It only makes sense. BUT, of course most cops, with the exception of the brave LEAP members,fight this common sense tooth and nail.

sadly, police unions and prison unions, etc, all scream bloody murder every time an intelligent and useful approach is mentioned. Why? MONEY. What else could possibly make this group of people choose personal aggrandizment over the common good? To keep their job security, cops do not care how many people have to get slaughtered around the world...or how many people rot in prisons here for long terms who have done nothing worse than supply a desired market when the governments refuse to do so?

Mere possession for personal use accounts for a VAST majority of the arrests every year...it is like guaranteed court overtime and good stat's..and so easy..the young and foreign are easy pickings for a savvy cop...threaten a dog..pressure..intimidate...badger..just GET THAT CONSENT because there is a 10% chance ( ten percent chance!!) that some minor bit of weed or whatever will be found and voila!! A bust!!

this happens almost a million times a year, affecting huge numbers of otherwise law abiding people who want nothing more than to be left alone...but that is too much to ask in a police state. I KNOW we are NOT technically a police state. but we are close...and I fear the day and dividing lines are drawn.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish

Originally posted by JWH44
Our biggest problems is corruption. But even that is one that we have battled vigorously and with great success.

Failures aside, can you elaborate on your successes?

Can you provide any specific cases of corruption that were closed and ended with successful prosecutions recently?

If this is your biggest problem, perhaps it would be good to share what you can about how successful you have been at fighting it?

Have you ever known a case to be closed arbitrarily, or where there was any conspiracy to cover up a case that was a part of an internal investigation and an external probe?

Just curious...

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Walkswithfish]

I will respond to this valid question, make a few closing statements and then I am bidding this place f-ing adieu.

First of all, I never said I was FBI. That being said, there is an internal Homeland Security website known as "Trust Betrayed" that is hosted by the DHS Office of Inspector General. Unfortunately, you won't have direct access to it because it in internal website meant as a stark reminder to all of us about the presence of and battle against corruption within our ranks. Nevertheless, it doesn't take much of a google search to come across several references to it in outside publications.

This website gives information about roughly 50 instances of corruption and other crimes committed by federal agents. Most involve convictions for misuse of their positions to facilitate illegal activity; usually smuggling. It also highlights their punishments. All have been terminated. All have been convicted in federal court. All have been sentenced for their crimes. Of these, I would say that 80percent have received sentences of incarceration in federal prison for periods exceeding three years, most of those in the 5-10 year range and a healthy number even more than that. All of these have been coupled with significant monetary fines.

I know, I can't show you the site. I have no reason to lie to you. The site exists and the cases are real.

So, now that this thread has spiraled down into an exercise in debate futility, I must leave. But first,

Snarf; I don't know who you claim to work for, but if you worked for me I'd have your conduct either straightened out or permanently dealt with before you embarrassed yourself or your agency anymore. Guys like you feed the image that cops are on power trips. Your attitude and approach to conflict resolution is an anachronism. Your way or the highway; by God I'm the law and you do what I say. . You would never work for me with that attitude.

I just want to thank everyone that tried to have an intelligent discussion. I enjoyed it.

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
You've got to be a certain type of person, psychologically, to begin with, to even WANT to be a cop.

Power-trip A-Holes all the way.

I agree...

Most police officers are the type of guys, that while in junior high & high school, were not popular, did not date, did not play sports and generally come from a childhood of some sort of abuse, whether physical, sexual or emotional.

Basically, cops are very insecure people with lower then average IQ’s and are very easily manipulated or controlled. The state does not want people that think for themselves or ask alot of questions about their orders/directives…hence, they love prior military. Why? Because unsuspecting 17/18/19 year olds, can be very easily broke down to nothing mentally and then "re-programmed" to think/act/respond the way the establishment needs them too.
(not saying military/prior military have low IQ’s.....just that the “IDEAL” candidates who become police officers, were for the most part, MP’s in the military)

If you give a person as described above, an abundance of power and authority, you have created a monster!

Now, they have everything they never had in life = RESPECT!

They almost become local “celebrities” of sorts in their communities – they can now stand up tall with a backbone (gun & badge) and they finally get a girl (ever notice that alot of the girl’s that date/marry cops have dated or been married to cops before? – like cop groupies or something?) and they automatically have a group of friends to socialize with, that excepts them for who they are (other cops and their wife’s)

Basically, it’s a trade off – we (the state) will give you all this power and authority so long as you do these police state deeds for us…

"Edited and sensationalized, many of the videos that show alleged instances of police brutality are actually depictions of unfortunate chains of events that led to physical encounters."

I don't have to edit and sensationalize my dealings with police officers to realize that a great deal of them are people who are on a power trip manipulated and controlled by a corrupt system.

"the pharmacist that knowingly fills illegal prescriptions; the banker that practices predatory loan practices? Are these isolated incidents enough to call for the elimination of the profession?"

Sorry, but I wouldn't shed a tear if the pharmaceutical and banking industries collapsed tomorrow.

"What if we all quit and walked away? Who is going to protect us?"

I have a loyal dog who cares very much about me who will lay her life on the line for me. I don't need a human being who doesn't give a damn about me pretending he/she wants to "protect me".

And last time I checked, cops are only interested in protecting the elitest scum who keep throwing taxpayers money at the police state. Treating innocent citizens like criminals and entrapping people with demented laws is NOT protection.

And one more thing. Since you claim criminal activity by police officers is rare, why do police officers insist on investigating their own in matters of alleged wrongdoing? Could it be to keep criminal prosecution of Police Officers even rarer?

reply to post by scooterstrats


why should i care that YOU are frustrated for being arrested (or pulled over) when you break the law?

You did it.

Should i not do my job because you can't grow up and accept responsibility?

reply to post by JWH44


I usually do not post on the topic of Police brutality, I think it is very hard to make a informed decision when you don't know the whole story. I have been following some of your comments, and I have to say that you seem to fit the profile of the type of officer that should be the model for all. That being said, I am now a 43yrs old, I have never had a run in with the law outside of traffic violations. Even as a juvenile, when a lot of kids would get taken to the station and have there parents called for getting in trouble, for small things like drinking, grass fires, snowballs, ect I would not dare have that happen because my father would shove his foot so far up my @ss I would not be able to walk for weeks. My father was a high school Vice Principal. When the trouble started, I always had the intuition when it was time to go home. The reason I tell you this is because I like to think I was rased with good morals and respect for authority.

To get back to your post, Please understand that from my point of view, lately things have seriously gone wrong. I know quite a few guys I went to school with who are officers. The first problem is the fact that the hiring process is corrupt. I took the exam, I had the highest score in my groupe, 1st on the list. I was called and asked to take a physical, then physic, and agility fitness test. After the interview, to make a long story short the guy they hired who I had beat on the exam by 20pts. and fitness test by 2.5pts on a scale of 10. happened to have some "friends". The reason I am pointing this out is that I find it hard for me to accept the "woo is me look how bad my job is" as an excuse for bad cops. There are some VERY good compassionate trustworthy, people who are turned away from being given the opportunity to serve there community because they don't play the political game.

Now the officers, To answer your statement as to the majority being good! being that I am a middle aged, educated, married 17ys to a teacher, father of 2 boys, went to a privet school, raised in a solid home. I think I can tell a head case when i see one. On a percentage of good vs. bad please, please, believe me when I say it is not even close. I am referring to officers ranging from State Police to County Police to Town Police. That I personally know. Of the guys I went to school with who are now or have been officers, One, was arrested by D.E.A. because he was with his cousin who was buying coke, while he was in uniform and allowing it to happen. Another has been suspended 3 times once for viciously beating and stabbing 3 black guys in a Chuck y Cheese parking lot while off duty because of an argument while driving,
another one was caught trying to sneak pot into the county jail for a friend of his.
here is one of the Best of all. Back when Mike Tyson was fighting the dispatch was not able to reach a single car for a whole hour because every officer on patrol was at the lute-net's house watching the fight. The fight was on Pay Preview, and he had a "chipped" cable box, in essence theft of services.

I could go on and on but really, I am sorry, and I feel for you, you seem like an upstanding, truly caring officer, and there are a few really good like you, I wish there were more. But the majority that I have known, or had an encounter with were an accident waiting to happen, to put it lightly. I also would say that the officers who I know who take pride in the job, and also know the others agree with me but also say they would never "rat" on them. But dosent that make them just as bad? see my point. It all starts at the top. One last thing is when you use the analogy of the other jobs in your post, you forget that first police officers should be held to a higher level than the others because you swear to an oath. Second the other jobs don't have the ability or authority to false-fully destroy peoples lives.

I look forward to your response. Hope you stay safe!

[edit on 4/3/10 by xyankee]

reply to post by marsvolta

yeah i was roughed up before by a cop for no reason, but it has nothing to do with what`s going on right now. you dont start hating cops for petty sh*t like that all of a sudden. you start hating them when they unlawfully enter your house when you are absent and do whatever they want. and other such crap.

Well my, my. You seem to be quite the victim when it comes to cops.

Its funny though, really, you give more first-hand accounts of police brutality than i've ever heard from anyone that i know.

So a natural, and logical conclusion is that you are either making them up, or you antagonized the use of force, and are not mature enough to handle the consequences.

Police officers, for the most part, have more important things to do than rile around with some idiot stoners some where and "violate their rights" by taking their paraphernalia.

The ones that do, i do not condone. But it happens few and far between, regardless of what your favorite TV shows might tell you.

reply to post by Snarf


Snarf, you have a u2u.

reply to post by JWH44


Before you go, let me just say that not all of us hate Police Officers, I have the highest respect for you an your fellow Officers.

reply to post by JWH44

There was some uncalled for nonsense posted here for sure. But there was a lot of truth also. The truth seems to have hurt. You asked, the public responded. But I hope that you got the mood of the populace that you work for. People who pay you salary are not happy with the status quo. If indeed you are concerned, even if you are not guilty of any wrongdoing it is incumbent upon you to do your best to mitigate the stated problems. You're part of the solution, or part of the problem. But I do respect you for having the nads to even broach this subject. You may not have liked the answers (perception is reality), but it seems (some) people have spoken. Take this info back to your superiors and quote the valid reasons given for the consensus shown here. Again, thanks !

reply to post by andy1033


warupdates.weebly.com...

Originally posted by JWH44


I will respond to this valid question, make a few closing statements and then I am bidding this place f-ing adieu.

First of all, I never said I was FBI.

And I never asked.

But your answers were nonetheless appreciated.

The fight against corruption will escalate to full blown war soon enough.

I hope you aren't leaving because of any of my questions.

Maybe one day there will be another opportunity, to have someone answer more directly from the agency.

Thank you for an interesting thread, and for your honesty.






[edit on 4-3-2010 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by scooterstrats

 

why should i care that YOU are frustrated for being arrested (or pulled over) when you break the law?

You did it.

Should i not do my job because you can't grow up and accept responsibility?

Because cops do it in a tyrannical manner.

In Mexico I argue with cops, there is human debate on whether I did something wrong or not. Hell in Mexico a good joke will get you out of a ticket.

Cops in Mexico have their own characters, their own personalities. They approach an elderly woman with more caution and respect than they would a street thug.

I have been pulled over for going 120 miles an hour in Mexico, I actually did not realise it was a cop trying to pull me over so i started racing him on the desolate desert road. I raced him for 2 minutes until he gave up. when he slowed down and i could see him in my rear view mirror I realised he was a cop so I pulled over. He raced back up to me jumped out of his car and screamed "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!" I just burst out laughing uncontrollably telling him I was racing him because I did not see he was a cop. The cops started laughing too!

50 bucks later we were best Friends. I asked him How fats he would let me go the cop thought for a moment and said "100 "

That's freedom you Americans ruled by the Iron Fist of the Law by those Amoral robots you call cops will never know.

There is no care no regard for human life in a US Cop, just like you Snarf have pointed out, you just don't care.

It's all about the quota with you US Cops.

Originally posted by JWH44
Snarf; I don't know who you claim to work for, but if you worked for me I'd have your conduct either straightened out or permanently dealt with before you embarrassed yourself or your agency anymore. Guys like you feed the image that cops are on power trips. Your attitude and approach to conflict resolution is an anachronism. Your way or the highway; by God I'm the law and you do what I say. . You would never work for me with that attitude.

If you're sincere in what you said above, then I can tell you I wish many more cops were like you. I'm sorry that angry people turned you away from this site, but by the very nature of this site, I'm sure you had to expect some of the responses. But again, if your words are true, you have my thanks.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by marsvolta

 

yeah i was roughed up before by a cop for no reason, but it has nothing to do with what`s going on right now. you dont start hating cops for petty sh*t like that all of a sudden. you start hating them when they unlawfully enter your house when you are absent and do whatever they want. and other such crap.

Well my, my. You seem to be quite the victim when it comes to cops.

Its funny though, really, you give more first-hand accounts of police brutality than i've ever heard from anyone that i know.

So a natural, and logical conclusion is that you are either making them up, or you antagonized the use of force, and are not mature enough to handle the consequences.

Police officers, for the most part, have more important things to do than rile around with some idiot stoners some where and "violate their rights" by taking their paraphernalia.

The ones that do, i do not condone. But it happens few and far between, regardless of what your favorite TV shows might tell you.

man, could you get more cliche than this? the only reason i found this site and signed up is because i want to find out why the heck what`s happening to me is happening at all. i dont do drugs. nor do i watch TV. you assume too much and convict in absentia and in advance. a typical cop i say.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by marsvolta]

reply to post by Izarith
In Mexico I argue with cops, there is human debate on whether I did something wrong or not. Hell in Mexico a good joke will get you out of a ticket.

Cops in Mexico have their own characters, their own personalities. They approach an elderly woman with more caution and respect than they would a street thug.

I have been pulled over for going 120 miles an hour in Mexico, I actually did not realise it was a cop trying to pull me over so i started racing him on the desolate desert road. I raced him for 2 minutes until he gave up. when he slowed down and i could see him in my rear view mirror I realised he was a cop so I pulled over. He raced back up to me jumped out of his car and screamed "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!" I just burst out laughing uncontrollably telling him I was racing him because I did not see he was a cop. The cops started laughing too!



Wow, I have got to call major BS, you need hip boots for this story. WOW.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by scooterstrats

 

why should i care that YOU are frustrated for being arrested (or pulled over) when you break the law?

You did it.

Should i not do my job because you can't grow up and accept responsibility?

Can you grow up and accept that you are ignorant of your duties and committing fraud against the Citizen?

If you are pulling over drivers for traffic violations then you first need to admit you don't know...

1st The actual law granting authority to the statute. You assume your training is in accordance with constitutional law. (Remember the constitution trumps any statute)

2nd That you don't know the legal definition of the words you ignorantly use out of context. (Such as driver)

What I mean is that all these traffic laws granting you the authority to arrest and issue citations to DRIVERS are being issued to people you assume are drivers. Because everyone ignorant to reality assumes if you operate an automobile, you are "driving" by lamens definition.

When in reality a driver is...

18 USC 31 - Sec. 31. Definitions

(6) Motor vehicle. - The term "motor vehicle" means every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo.

Simplified...

(6) Motor vehicle. - The term "motor vehicle" means every description of...and used for commercial purposes...

^^ See: "AND used"

FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES.

But we have to identify as being drivers with officers, because if we don't you suspend our rights anyways! And arrest us for driving without a license.

A LEO NEEDS TO REPLY TO THIS.

Can you explain US Supreme Court rulings upholding common law right to travel? Do you know about it? Ignorant, fraudulent in your capacities as an officer, making your actions illegal.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by marsvolta

man, could you get more cliche than this? the only reason i found this site and signed up is because i want to find out why the heck what`s happening to me is happening at all. i dont do drugs. nor do i watch TV. you assume too much and convict in absentia and in advance. a typical cop i say.

Okay - lets assume that what you say is the truth. And hey, i admit, it happens. Police officers are subject to human stupidity as well as any other profession on this planet. I'm not saying that i'll take any cops back any time of any day.

All i am saying is that based on my experiences both on the force, off the force, and before i ever became an officer, tells me that those who complain about the law are doing so out of spite and resentment....and those two emotions come from having been found guilty of breaking the law (in some form or another, that oculd range from being arrested to a simple traffic ticket)


*IF* what you say is true and you have experienced multiple accounts of police brutality & improper search & seizure, then i do honestly apologize to you for making the assumption that you weren't being entirely forthcoming.

And all i can say is get a camera and go public.

It does wonders these days

reply to post by JWH44


JWH44... you have a U2U

The question is not, "how many or what percentage of cops are corrupt?" The question is, "how can your average citizen ever stand up to an institution with so much power and an instinct to self-preserve?"

The USA was meant to be a place where people didn't have to submit to unreasonable search and seizure, harrassment and molestation. Now you've got police electrocuting American citizens, shackling them and tossing them in cars and driving them off to walled compounds where they are fully able to have their way with them if they so desired. Some would say, "yeah, but it's just a few of them doing this kind of stuff."

When your entire country is founded on the principle of personal liberty and rights, due process and freedom, then how can you put up with a single instance of this type of a abuse of power?

Can you believe that strange men could grab up your wife or daughter off the street and restrain her, strike her with wooden clubs or stun her with a taser if she resists? Then do what amounts to a kidnapping and take her off somewhere to be locked up? Does that sound like "land of the free"? Does it matter that this only happens occasionally? Oh yeah and I'm quite certain that they will produce mounds of "evidence" and lots of "probable cause".

I'm just not clear on what risks it is exactly that we are being safeguarded from that could be any worse than what I've mentioned above. Having said all that I should probably state that I have several cop friends and I am military myself. I just don't think anyone needs that kind of power.

Power corrupts.