An appeal from a cop...

Well I think the real purpose of this thread has been established Op. Yes, the threat is real. Now you go report back to those you answer to and let them know that.

Don't ask me for a solution to the problem - I don't know - I didn't cause it. I only refused to continue to be party to it any longer.

You just go on following those orders and when the time comes reflect back on those whose orders you followed when they are the ones on the stand.

The system is broken. Period. You're still a human being. You may yet still have a soul. Its just a job.

The choice is yours.

reply to post by tgidkp


But none of that really matters when they bash in your door with warrants in hand and you choose to resist them.

Bang bang, you're still dead.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by kjburto
That's another very important issue people need to realize, and that is "citizens" do NOT exist and police do NOT have a duty to protect the so-called "citizens". It's been ruled in court cases over and over that police don't have a duty to protect the "citizens". Therefore "citizens" do not owe allegiance to any "city", "state", or "country". I don;t have the cases right off hand but if someone wants them shoot me a pm or ask on here and I will post some later.

See I think this is where some of the confusion stems from.

The STATE police are under no lawful obligation to protect non-STATE Citizens, i.e. US citizens.

The States constitution requires it to protect state Citizens. One of the myriad of problems facing our awakening is that we still think we are US citizens of a corporation established in 1871. I'm a State Citizen baby.

as i recall "police men/women" originate as tax collectors for the ruler , and with time they where given more "duties" / chores to do in between the tax collecting, but their main feat was tax collecting / seeing to it that tax was being paid, ...

now days the duties seam to overweigth the tax herding,

but the paradox now days is that civil duties with in the laws them self today are just about the same as police duties ,

and there is no law that sais that they have to follow the law more then a civilian nor is there a law that sais that civilians must comply to the law anymore then a police man / woman,

the difference is that police men women take/make an oath ,
but the law is still the same and has not changed in anyway as to what you may,may not , must and must not do.

what one can argue about instead is the validity of their oath and the value it carries , it is basicly the same oath be it scouts honor or hippocrates the one doctors have to take/make or the presidents when he/she takes post,

a verbal agreement which in many cases is broken on daily basis yet the punishment for braking the "oath" varies for some reason, and in many cases goes unpunished, but this is a subject in its own for interpetation.

but before derailing my self from the derail , just point out once again

the law is the same for everyone,







which for reason unknown to me

reply to post by JWH44


I explained my stance on authority because it seemed an appropriate way to begin my reply. In no way did I say that I wanted you to go away so I can undertake in any criminal activity and get away with it. If I am not happy in my life it is not your fault, parents teachers or anyone else. I am past the blame game. My solution is how I deal with this crap hole of a society by trying to give friends family and others who seem lost some direction with understanding and advice towards inner peace. Some like it and others just rub your nose in it and they are generally the people who think they are in some way better than me. The advice maybe sound but they dont want to come to a realisation brought about by someone who doesnt cut their hair or shave. I just let them be them which isnt really doing anything either because what I am dealing with is discrimination. and I have beaten my head against that wall plenty of times. I have all the time in the world for people who I can earn respect from with my efforts.

I dont want any of you to go away we need you there. Your job is difficult and it takes a certain kind of person to do it. That is why we are here talking about it, there are not enough people with those qualities who will do the job properly, and if they are there is something wrong with your job description. The system is open to abuse and it goes all the way down from the top to the very lowest of lows with people finding any excuse to abuse the system and each other because we are being led that way.

I dont want any of you to go away if you want to be there but I do want you to look at yourselves and question the motives behind what it is you do. I understand the need for population control and the need to get on top and stay on top, but with this much abuse going on you will only be able to keep a lid on it for so long. Unless technology is implemented that makes us even more brain dead. Otherwise there will be consequences and Im not expecting them in my time but Im a father now and one day I will be a grandfather and if it doesnt happen by then then I have run out of time to help the people I love. Not that I will be any help to anyone as a senior citizen I will be the one begging for help and the reply will be "what the hell did you ever do for me".

So I guess what Im trying to say is we need change and it isnt going to happen unless we all agree that there needs to be and the direction in which we should go about it. But it seems obvious to myself and a lot of people here that it should begin at the top and thats never going to happen while their interests are being protected by the more suseptible of us that keep the others down. One thing that comes to mind is parenting and how we can allow people to raise children to be suseptible to TPTB and their greedy agendas. As the parents are at the top of a family orginisation this should be dealt with immediately. Noone should be bribing their kids with anything to keep them in line, and teaching them shallow substanceless ways. Where is the love there? Only love for crooks who will cut you down if you ever do step out of line and not wanting to know about how you spend 99% of your life doing nothing against them and their evil ways

reply to post by JWH44

I agree with many of the posts concerning laws and policies that are questionable at best. I am not blind to the reality of the society we live in. There are deep rooted problems that have to be addressed at levels far above my pay grade before we can all start to agree that society is on the right track.

You can do something about bad laws, you can refuse to enforce them. You can refuse to arrest people for violating them.

You can work with your local police union to rally all your officers behind not enforcing consensual crime laws. You won't all be fired, police departments cannot hire new officers fast enough to fire an entire department if they decide to refuse to enforce consensual crime laws.

If the police unions of the country united together with LEAP and refused to enforce consensual crime laws there is nothing the government could do to stop you and it would probably lead to a repeal of consensual crime laws.


You say there are a lot of problems but they are far above your pay grade. That is a cop out. As I pointed out in my previous comment with my reference to the Milgram Experiments, 2 out of 3 people will shock another to the highest setting if a doctor, an authority figure, tells them to.

You are pushing off responsibility for your actions busting consensual criminals on authority figures who make the laws, the exact BS excuse I said law enforcement routinely uses when discussing this issue.

You are a part of the 2 out of 3.

I don't know about you but for me I do not like the idea of being or potentially becoming a Nazi Soldier and follow orders regardless of the harm they cause. I refuse to be a part of the 2 out of 3.

But in the meantime, and this is one of the points I'm trying to stress, there are still bad people out there doing horrible things that I think we can all agree are wrong. And I will continue to do my part to keep people safe. Flame all you want, I really don't care. I'll still risk my life for yours if the time comes.

The weight of the world is not on your shoulders, you are not Atlas. The world will go along just fine without you working in law enforcement.

The Wild West was a largely lawless area. Yes lots of people were murdered, that said it was a hell of a lot freer than our nation today. Furthermore our nation today is nothing like the Wild West of yesterday and the violence of the Wild West would not return to us even if police officers were so scarce they only had time to investigate homicides.


You can do something if you choose to, it is a choice.

reply to post by EMPIRE


"In closing, offer some solutions and address the problem on both sides, if not, all you’ve done is provided a well written rant that paints law enforcement as the victim"...

Thats what I was thinking as I read this "tear jerker" .....

Takes deep breath....

Pulls out soap box

"Dear moderators I will keep this as clean and nice as I can."

Stand up on soap box

@OP

I will assume by the way certain things are worded the following

The south west refers to texas, ok, new mexico, and maybe arizona

I have hunch that if you are a federal agent its FBI

I may be wrong.

I have a hunch it is probably either Dallas or waco/ san antonio.

If its the dallas office I have to say this

I'm kent Walls and I Call

Its BS, pure. If your in the Dallas branch of the FBI forget any personal respect from this poster what-so-ever. I personally turned in Three clear cut color of law violations by CPS to your office (If its Dallas, if not accept my apologies, but I am on the soap box) The evidence was clear cut. It was tape recorded proof they lied in their testimony against a friend.

"We will look into it sir. Thank you."

I got a pat on the head. Oddly enough nothing ever came of it. Same for the rangers, same for the marshalls.

This is where the line is grey on the poster and the post. My only defense is he verbally meshed the two together moderator himself over several post.

What I hope I can sum up here is this. I think it has to do with this. Your seen 'yeah we got the bad man', then when asked for actual help, duh huh george.

So everyone is on same page

Color of is a legal term meaning "pretense or appearance of" some right; in other words, 'color of', as in 'color of law', means the thing colors (or adjusts) the law; however the adjustment made may either be lawful or it may merely appear to be lawful.

FBI's CoL

Civil Rights Home Federal Civil Rights Statutes Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 - Conspiracy Against Rights Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 - Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law Title 18, U.S.C., Section 245 - Federally Protected Activities Title 18, U.S.C., Section 247 - Church Arson Prevention Act of 1996 Title 18, U.S.C., Section 248 - Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act Title 18, U.S.C., Section 844(h) - Federal Explosives Control Statute Title 42, U.S.C., Section 3631 - Criminal Interference with Right to Fair Housing Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141 - Pattern and Practice

Ok now that we are kinda on the same page I will continue.

You and most of your brothers are point blank disappointments to most Americans.

I must now refuse to accept you as a group that is trustworthy. You are all dangers until proven otherwise individually.

BTW....

Thats not the only case that is in the issue...

Illeagal land grab attempt

Nothing

Bribery of a witness and possible judges

nothing

you want me to keep going

this is what I know of the dallas office

Ive got more sir

It comes down to the fact most americans are disappointed. Inside their is that little kid who looks up to the good guy, who falls WAAAAAY short.

I am going to leave alone the civil rights issue.

I want to deal with you on a personal level. Their is another cop here on the site I gave a chance and so far he has not on a personal level proven to be a failure. He is marked off as a decent guy in my book.


Why should a single member here trust you in your capacity as a federal agent.


For some reason I keep calling you John in my mind and it is annoying me....

Anyway,let me ask you a few questions that might help your personal cause. You have to understand your not going to win one for the whole team. No one is going to support that.

What I am attempting to do is give you a chance.

1)Why should the members here trust you?

2)What the worst case you ever investigated?

3)What was college like for you?

4)How do you treat corrupt LEO's personally?


I sure a few other members here might have a few much more interesting questions.

My last thought is a quote

“One day you will take a fork in the road, and you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go. If you go one way, you can be somebody. You will have to make your compromises and … turn your back on your friends, but you will be a member of the club, and you will get promoted and get good assignments. Or you can go the other way, and you can do something, something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. … You may not get promoted, and you may not get good assignments, and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors, but you won’t have to compromise yourself. … In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you have to make a decision: to be or to do.” -Col. John Boyd

Which road are you on Agent?

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[edit on Thu Mar 4 2010 by Jbird]

And to the so called "LEO's" who state that "we are following orders, etc." Well remember what happened to most who chose the Nuremberg defense. They tried to explain that they were right, but right-thinking people said otherwise. No, not apples and oranges. An apt analogy. I dont feel that the punishment given there are appropriate in this discussion of course, however "spirit of the law" adage that prosecutors love to cite comes into play here. Had any of those at Nuremberg defied orders to act on common sense and their conscience rather than blindly acting, they would be respected today (and maybe some still be around to inspire our contemporaries who act otherwise).
Sorry, the Nuremberg defense doesnt excuse current abuses any more now than it did then.

reply to post by roguetechie


So, I'm just curious here. Who's side would you be on with the shooter down by the Pentagon? Are you in favor of the "evil" police here or the shooter?
Cause if we go by your thinking their would be no law enforcement. Do you feel there should be no laws? Or just laws you pick an choose?
Am I going to say their's no bad cops? H no. A few bad apples will slip through.