The 800lb Gorillia, Isreal did 911 -

Originally posted by December_Rain
The six million figure was actually introduced before WWII:

and this in 1921, the New York Times which claimed that "6,000,000" jews in Russia were "facing extermination by massacre."
Source:query.nytimes.com...

There were 6 Million Jews that faced massacre at the outset of the Revolution. Hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews in fact were massacred, hundreds of thousand of their children were orphaned.

A large percentage fled to neighbouring countries or immigrated to places like America as a result.

An uncounted number died in the ensuing famines in the 20s and 30s that took an estimate 10 million lives.

Is the point being pushed that the 6 Million number in an article from 1921 being the same as the number of Jews who died under the Nazis decades later is some conspiracy?

Is this another veiled attempt at denying the Holocaust happened as documented?




[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Sigismundus

 

It doesnt make sense, why would Mosad agents be cheering an attack on America? Considering we are the Benefactor, thats the one thing that never makes any sense you dont bite the hand that feeds you. It just doesnt make sense from a tactical or Miltary standpoint. So why would Israel plan the attack or do it? I am still baffled on why people think they would do it...

I know that there was an attack on the USS Liberty, and the claim Israel made was bogus, They wanted the US to enter the War on there behalf. But attacking a warship is one thing attacking to American buildings on American Soil in the heart of Americas fincial capitol is totally different.

If I could get my big stupid friend to join in fight my battles for me I'd be pretty dang happy, especially if my big dumb friend had nothing to gain by joining the fight.
Consider for a moment what makes one good friends: common beliefs, common respect and mutual and fairly equal assistance, common goals. If you have no such things in common, other than one side asking for endless aid because they claim they're your extraspecial best friend in the whole world while doing absolutely nothing for you, what do you think the motivation for this 'friendship could be, and what do you think you can get for what you give?
It's one thing to wish someone best wishes in their own affairs, another totally to get in bed and expect nothing more than getting a 'dirty sanchez' regardless of how gentle they promise to be with us.
Why were they cheering? Because they knew they were getting THEIR nation the biggest bulletproof vest in the form of the biggest, dumbest bulletstop available on the planet, for free. There wouldnt even be a fight between the US and the rabs if we werent pulled into the fight on one side. Now, for pointless promises of support, before the moozies will try to hit the izzies they have to kill off the US first. Hows THAT for friendship?

accidental double post

[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by December_Rain
The six million figure was actually introduced before WWII:

and this in 1921, the New York Times which claimed that "6,000,000" jews in Russia were "facing extermination by massacre."
Source:query.nytimes.com...

There were 6 Million Jews that faced massacre at the outset of the Revolution. Hundreds of thousands were massacred, hundreds of thousand of children were orphaned.

A large percentage of the Jewish Russian population fled to neighbouring countries or immigrated to places like America as a result.

An uncounted number of Jews died along with everyone else in the ensuing famines in the 20s and 30s.

Is the point be pushed that the 6 Million number being the same as the estimated number of Jews who died under the Nazis is something malign?

Is this another veiled attempt at denying the Holocaust happened as documented?


Curiously nobody jewish that I know from there has any recollection of this alleged soviet history, nor is it taught in any russian history class or soviet history class. At the turn of the century pretty much everywhere there were squalid slums, antisematism and chauvanistic imeritives. By 1921 the soviets were firmly in charge, so who was ding any massacres? At the outset of the revolution more people went in, than out of the russia as the worlds anarchists and socialists converged upon the workers paradise because people already there werent allowed to leave. When people were finally allowed to leave in the 70's, it wasnt gentiles that were allowed to leave, so much so that any russian immigrant was assumed to be jewish for the next 20 yrs. I'd sure like some hard factual history to back up this russian holocaust claim instead of Duranty NYT propaganda based on nothing but polite acceptance of agendoid fantasy..
I'll be waiting for your factual supply and citations...

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Beancounter72
Then go to this site to see the declaration of war against Germany. Yes I know you're going to say it was only an economic boycott but they specifically used the phrase 'war on Germany'.
www.wintersonnenwende.com...

Useful to check your sources - and also indicative of reading tastes.

You've just cited a piece from the "Barnes Review" a well-know ultra-right wing Neo-Nazi publication. Ku Klux Klanners like David Duke are regular contributors. They managed to dig up a vicious article from some 1933 paper.

The selected propaganda piece fails to note that the supposed 'war on Germany by Jews' was a minority civilian population with no form of government or weaponry against the most militarized nation in the world with a standing army numbering in the millions.


[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

In typical fashion MM you attack the source and attempt to debunk by diversion.
Things never change with you do they?
Post a claim against the material in the article so it can be discussed and not just ducked and weaved,like a boxer getting his eyes's blackened.
1933 is recent history Oh well, maybe not in your arsenal of bunk
And wouldn't you say that what these folks did to Anastasia was more than playing patty cake.
BTW I would give my horse to see you and David Duke locked in a room for a short while.

GREAT LINK BEAN


[edit on 5-3-2010 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by thatredpill

Curiously nobody jewish that I know from there has any recollection of this alleged soviet history, nor is it taught in any russian history class or soviet history class. At the turn of the century pretty much everywhere there were squalid slums, antisematism and chauvanistic imeritives. By 1921 the soviets were firmly in charge, so who was ding any massacres? At the outset of the revolution more people went in, than out of the russia as the worlds anarchists and socialists converged upon the workers paradise because people already there werent allowed to leave. When people were finally allowed to leave in the 70's, it wasnt gentiles that were allowed to leave, so much so that any russian immigrant was assumed to be jewish for the next 20 yrs. I'd sure like some hard factual history to back up this russian holocaust claim instead of Duranty NYT propaganda based on nothing but polite acceptance of agendoid fantasy..
I'll be waiting for your factual supply and citations...

Try reading it again. It said there were 6 Million Jews, it said they were facing massacres.

I'd imagine in a climate of near anarchy, as much lawlessness and spontaneous pogroms as opposed to state programs.

It was a time of uncertainty for everyone. No one was even sure if the Revolution would bring permanent change or would itself unwind.

The only reason this obscure 90 year old article is even noticed is the ever busy Neo-Nazis spend their time scouring ancient newspaper archives for something to distort. Seeing '6 Million Jews marracred' as a headline would produce an instant erection for these 'researchers'.


[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Beancounter72
reply to post by Alfie1

 

So obviously you didn't bother to read his posts. I don't have the links to those articles. So if you are going to dismiss his references to them, then you must think he's lying. Is that what you're saying?

Yes the Nazis kicked jews out of public office, banking, law, judiciary, arts, etc. because those areas had been dominated by jews. Most of the banks were owned by jews (all but 2). Most of the lawyers and judges were jews. Most of the newspapers were controlled by jews. Sound familiar. Other countries did exactly the same thing and in fact went even further. An English King, who I think was Charles but I'm not sure, kicked ALL jews out of England because of their disproportionate influence over England. Cromwell accepted a huge bribe from Dutch jews to let the jews back in. The jews have also been kicked out of France, Spain and Portugal at one time or another. And before you accuse me of being anti-semitic, my recitation of historical facts doesn't make me anti-jewish. I'm anti-zionist as are lots of jews themselves including more than a few rabbis.


[edit on 5-3-2010 by Beancounter72]

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Beancounter72]

Thanks to December Rain the basis of your alleged pre-war 6,000,000 deaths seems to be starting to be revealed. It was concern about possible deaths of this magnitude in Russia years before the Nazis came to power and therefore nothing to do with their holocaust.

So, you seem to think it is perfectly ok to deny jews jobs, schooling, cultural activities ? Any jew over 6 having to wear a star ? forcible removal to ghettoes ? death camps ? theft of all their property including the gold in their teeth ?. All perfectly reasonable , everybody has done it.

What a pity for you that the SS isn't recruiting anymore.

Can this thread get BACK ON TRACK please?

It has spiraled into a fringe discussion tangenting from the holocaust which itself is only marginally related to the OP!

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by thatredpill

Curiously nobody jewish that I know from there has any recollection of this alleged soviet history, nor is it taught in any russian history class or soviet history class. At the turn of the century pretty much everywhere there were squalid slums, antisematism and chauvanistic imeritives. By 1921 the soviets were firmly in charge, so who was ding any massacres? At the outset of the revolution more people went in, than out of the russia as the worlds anarchists and socialists converged upon the workers paradise because people already there werent allowed to leave. When people were finally allowed to leave in the 70's, it wasnt gentiles that were allowed to leave, so much so that any russian immigrant was assumed to be jewish for the next 20 yrs. I'd sure like some hard factual history to back up this russian holocaust claim instead of Duranty NYT propaganda based on nothing but polite acceptance of agendoid fantasy..
I'll be waiting for your factual supply and citations...

Try reading it again. It said there were 6 Million Jews, it said they were facing massacres.

I'd imagine in a climate of near anarchy, as much lawlessness and spontaneous pogroms as opposed to state programs.

It was a time of uncertainty for everyone. No one was even sure if the Revolution would bring permanent change or would itself unwind.

The only reason this obscure 90 year old article is even noticed is the ever busy Neo-Nazis spend their time scouring ancient newspaper archives for something to distort. Seeing '6 Million Jews marracred' as a headline would produce an instant erection for these 'researchers'.


[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

I'm not looking to distort anything, I'm trying to remain objective and free of 'spin'.
I'm facing massacre too, do I get a pass? Where's my NYT article? Not much hope and change where I am. Really I'm on the line here, I'm being oppressed.
As to the time period about the russian revolution, why is this supposed to be a specifically jewish problem as opposed to those nonjews that died? Is it the general condition or just one groups condition that matters? Did the goyim that died fighting among themselves not count also?
Why must it be phrased only in terms of religion instead of class or philosphy or generalized civil warfare which are likely at least as pertainent a catagory? Should be have a hair color catagory, too?
Because far more russian orthodox were killed and orphaned, cant we say it was far more so a russian orthodox holocost? And if this is so and the jewish casualties are so few relatively speaking, would it lead to suggest that the Jewish combatantparticipants were in fact victorious as their casualties were far less numerically and proportionally? Was this a function of all the various nationalities involved, and if so, does the nationality you suggest was so maligned, do anything different now that it controls its own property? Perhaps we are failing to avoid accepting a general human condition and perceived self defense more than any focused inequity because some group is simply hated? There were years of civil war over a wide area and atrocities on all sides, and I suspect vast numbers of orphans, where there religion was fairly immaterial. In closing, be careful in assigning blame found in all, to just a few, and stop assuming that some may always be held blameless in every circumstance.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by thatredpill]

reply to post by Alfie1


How happy you must be that the Mossad IS still recruiting. If you had bothered to read my other posts, you would have realized that I was not condoning what the Nazis did to anyone in their concentration camps.

You asked me for backup. I gave it to you. You asked me if any other country did what Germany did in 1933 and I pointed that out to you. When I supply the answers to your questions you ridicule and slander me. So once again I'm going to say that I don't hate jews. I'm against zionists like the Mossad who believe that the ends justify the means INCLUDING, colluding with the Nazis during WW2 and perpetuating the pre-war myth that millions of jews were killed, all in the name of scaring european jews into emigrating to Israel after the war. I'm not saying anything that anti-zionist jews (including rabbis) aren't saying. Are they anti-semitic, SS supporters too? How about you go to them and tell them that to their faces?

Originally posted by thatredpill

I'm not looking to distort anything, I'm trying to remain objective and free of 'spin'.
I'm facing massacre too, do I get a pass? Where's my NYT article? Not much hope and change where I am. Really I'm on the line here, I'm being oppressed.
As to the time period about the russian revolution, why is this supposed to be a specifically jewish problem as opposed to those nonjews that died? Is it the general condition or just one groups condition that matters? Did the goyim that died fighting among themselves not count also?
Why must it be phrased only in terms of religion instead of class or philosphy or generalized civil warfare which are likely at least as pertainent a catagory? Should be have a hair color catagory, too?
Because far more russian orthodox were killed and orphaned, cant we say it was far more so a russian orthodox holocost? And if this is so and the jewish casualties are so few relatively speaking, would it lead to suggest that the Jewish combatant participants were in fact victorious as their casualties were far less numerically and proportionally? Was this a function of all the various nationalities involved, and if so, does the nationality you suggest was so maligned, do anything different now that it controls its own property? Perhaps we are failing to avoid accepting a general human condition and perceived self defense more than any focused inequity because some group is simply hated? There were years of civil war over a wide area and atrocities on all sides, and I suspect vast numbers of orphans, where there religion was fairly immaterial. In closing, be careful in assigning blame found in all, to just a few, and stop assuming that some may always be held blameless in every circumstance.

I think there's been miscommunication and I'll accept some of the responsibility. No one says there was a specific Jewish massacre in Russia, it was an alarmist fear mentioned in a 1921 article. As I tried to point out, we have the benefit of hindsight on historical events of the last century, but things look very different when you're there in time and place. There were something like 6 Million Jews in Russia back then, they did feel threatened. In the end something like 10 Million did die in subsequent famines. The vat majority Eastern Orthodox or Catholics in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. How much of this was attributable to the radical change to Communism is a question for which there is no definitive answer.

Sorry if I overreacted to what you had to say.


M



[edit on 5-3-2010 by mmiichael]

I'm convinced that Mossad was primarily responsible for 9/11. Why? Because Mossad is the covert arm of a zionist regime where deception is the basic tool of the trade and the ends justify the means. Getting the US involved in a war with Islam would serve the zionist agenda very well. Are zionists capable of such evil thinking? I'll let the jewish people themselves answer that. Many anti-zionists are jewish. I found these websites and am amazed at how powerful the anti-zionist feeling is. If anyone other than a jewish person expressed these opinions, they would be branded as anti-semitic.

'Could we have stopped Hitler?' www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The role of zionism in the Holocaust: www.jewsagainstzionism.com...
Here is an excerpt.

President Roosevelt convened the Evian conference July 6-15 1938, to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the Zionists made no effort to influence the United States and the 32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German and Austrian Jews.

It is an historical fact that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.

The answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid This response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

During the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weizman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weizman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

The five dancing Mossad agents part distracts me. If these are highly trained professionals, why the public display of joy? Why not silently and quietly get the footage and leave? Isn't this how a pro would handle it? In and out with none the wiser.

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I'm convinced that Mossad was primarily responsible for 9/11. Why? Because Mossad is the covert arm of a zionist regime where deception is the basic tool of the trade and the ends justify the means. Getting the US involved in a war with Islam would serve the zionist agenda very well. Are zionists capable of such evil thinking? I'll let the jewish people themselves answer that. Many anti-zionists are jewish. I found these websites and am amazed at how powerful the anti-zionist feeling is. If anyone other than a jewish person expressed these opinions, they would be branded as anti-semitic.

'Could we have stopped Hitler?' www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The role of zionism in the Holocaust: www.jewsagainstzionism.com...
Here is an excerpt.

Just a couple quick points. The US, China, Britain, France, Russia, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and many other countries all have developed intelligence agencies, routinely have spies infiltrating rival and opposing countries. All do so deceptively with the feeling the end justifies the means. Where is Israel unique in this?

As to the provided links by various rabbis. There probably are thousands of rabbis with writings extant, maybe tens of thousands.
Quoting the views and interpretations of history of 3 or 4 aberrant lunatic fringe rabbis does not represent mainstream knowledge or actual history any more than quoting an extreme Fundamentalist priest or minster who believes the Vatican manipulated Germany accurately represent the Christian world history.

Somewhere someone has written something blaming every group imaginable for the rise of the Nazis. Just as there are a hundred theories written about the true assassins of JFK.

Because it was written and you can find it online does not make it substantiated or valid.

reply to post by Alfie1

Excuse me, but who are you to say that? Can you please open your eyes and see what is happening in the world? stop being a sheep!

The people who perpetrated 9/11 have given you one clue that is a big great smoking gun: Mohamed Atta's passport. They are saying to you, openly, that you are a sucker! The chances of that happening are astronomically infinitesimal!

Please also open your eyes and see who are the bankers, the movies' executive producers, the media owners around the world, and especially in America!!!!

Wake up, before it is too late!!!

reply to post by masterp


If you are referring to the passport found in the rubble of WTC....ummm, it wasn't Atta's!

Fact-check, schmack-check, huh?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Does it matter what the name is on the passport? it does not. You are trying to discredit me, based on the fact I did not post the correct name, while you are ignoring the truth and reality. You are looking at the tree and miss the forest.

Wake up before it is too late, or else stop crying and accept the consequences.

reply to post by masterp


No.

The fact is, many many items, from the people that were onboard the airplanes, were recovered, some seemingly unscathed. Look it up.

Happens in just about EVERY airplane crash, "fiery" or not.

I'd also suggest you look into the case of NorthWest Airlines flight 255, in Detroit, MI...1987

Crash during takeoff (won't bore you with details, we've studied it a lot).

"Fiery" crash, low-speed (since they were attempting a takeoff), scattered for hundreds of feet, the wreckage killed one on the ground, and everyone onboard EXCEPT a little four year old girl.

I'd bet you'd agree a little child is more fragile than a passport?

Look it up, if you don't believe me. Amazing, odd chaotic thningsoccur in intense crashes.

Originally posted by masterp

Please also open your eyes and see who are the bankers, the movies' executive producers, the media owners around the world, and especially in America!!!!

Wake up, before it is too late!!!

Quick Wikipedia check:

Top 15 banking institutions worldwide and their current assets (in $ millions) Please clarify which are controlled by Jews

1 Royal Bank of Scotland Group, Edinburgh, UK - 3,483,179
2 Deutsche Bank, Frankfurt am Main, Germany - 3,068,724
3 Barclays, London, UK - 2,977,491
4 BNP Paribas, Paris, France - 2,891,948
5 Crédit Agricole, Paris, France - 2,303,497
6 UBS AG, Zürich, Switzerland - 1,881,246
7 JPMorgan Chase Bank National, New York, USA -1,746,242
8 Société Générale, Paris La Défense, France - 1,574,478
9 Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd, Tokyo, Japan - 1,494,350
10 Bank of America NA, Charlotte, USA - 1,471,631
11 Banco Santander, Boadilla del Monte, Spain - 1,462, 493
12 UniCredit , Milan, Italy - 1,456,892
13 ING Bank, Amsterdam, Netherlands - 1,441,673
14 Industrial & Commercial Bank of China, Beijing, China - 1,430,038
15 HSBC Bank, London, UK - 1,340,437


Top 5 movie/television studios. Note most publicly traded. Largest shareholder in News Corporation/Fox outside Rupert Murdoch's family is a Saudi prince.

Time Warner - Warner Bros. Entertainment
News Corporation - Fox Filmed Entertainment
Viacom - Paramount Motion Pictures Group
Sony - Sony Pictures Entertainment
The Walt Disney Company - Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group
General Electric /Vivendi SA - NBC Universal - Universal Studios

Originally posted by mmiichael


Quick Wikipedia check:

Top 15 banking institutions worldwide and their current assets (in $ millions) Please clarify which are controlled by Jews

1 Royal Bank of Scotland Group, Edinburgh, UK - 3,483,179
2 Deutsche Bank, Frankfurt am Main, Germany - 3,068,724
3 Barclays, London, UK - 2,977,491
4 BNP Paribas, Paris, France - 2,891,948
5 Crédit Agricole, Paris, France - 2,303,497
6 UBS AG, Zürich, Switzerland - 1,881,246
7 JPMorgan Chase Bank National, New York, USA -1,746,242
8 Société Générale, Paris La Défense, France - 1,574,478
9 Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd, Tokyo, Japan - 1,494,350
10 Bank of America NA, Charlotte, USA - 1,471,631
11 Banco Santander, Boadilla del Monte, Spain - 1,462, 493
12 UniCredit , Milan, Italy - 1,456,892
13 ING Bank, Amsterdam, Netherlands - 1,441,673
14 Industrial & Commercial Bank of China, Beijing, China - 1,430,038
15 HSBC Bank, London, UK - 1,340,437

This is fun.
Now we can do who controls the Central Banks?