The 800lb Gorillia, Isreal did 911 -

Remember this shniz.

wingdings

Originally posted by andy1972

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by andy1972
And then again..theres the fact that DANIEL LEWIN, a mossad agent, was suspiciosly on flight 11, where apparantly one of the passengers was SHOT..

Daniel Lewin was shot with a magic bullet shooting box cutter.

Which one was it, they had boxcutters or a gun, they had mace but nobody was sure of that]

Betty ong originally said that a man in seat 9B, Lewins seat, started the hijack by opening fire with a pistol, that changed to Lewin being shot in the head and later slashed his throat.

Wow!

That would make sense. A passive mock hijacking. Its been proven that it does happen and that sometimes civilians are used as well as the emergency response team not being alerted of the exercise to test and document response and tactics as if it was a real life situation.

The attacks of 911 were scheduled as part of the exercise and this is why it did not arouse too much suspicion until it was well on it way or almost complete. (quote mine and attack this)

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by andy1972

 

andy, could you please find where it is reported that Betty Ong said that a man in seat 9B was shot???

An FAA memo written on the evening of 9/11, and later leaked, will suggest that a man on Flight 11 is shot and killed by a gun before the plane crashes into the World Trade Center. The “Executive Summary,” based on information relayed by a flight attendant to the American Airlines Operation Center, states “that a passenger located in seat 10B [Satam Al Suqami] shot and killed a passenger in seat 9B [Daniel Lewin]

"The American Airlines FAA Principal Security Inspector (PSI) was notified by Suzanne Clark of American Airlines Corporate Headquarters, that an on board flight attendant contacted American Airlines Operations Center and informed that a passenger located in seat 10B shot and killed a passenger in seat 9B .

"The passenger killed was Daniel Lewin, shot by passenger Satam Al Suqami. One bullet was reported to have been fired."

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Daniel Lewin--->

"Danny Lewin was the first victim of the biggest attack in history that morning, in which almost 3,000 people died. An internal memorandum of the Federal Aviation Administration sets that in the course of a struggle that took place between Lewin, a graduate of Israel's elite commando unit, Sayeret Matkal , and the four hijackers who were assaulting that cockpit, Lewin was murdered by Satam Al Suqami, a 25 year old Saudi.

www.israelnewsagency.com...

"Danny didn' t sit quietly. From what we heard from the Americans, the hijackers attacked one of the stewardesses and Danny rose to protect her and prevent them from entering the cockpit. It is a consolation to us that Danny fought. We see it as an act of heroism that a person sacrifices his life in order to save others. An act of heroism that everyone should do at such an instance and particularly suitable for Danny."

www.israelnewsagency.com...

Lewin, a 31 year-old dual American-Israeli citizen was a graduate of MIT and Israel's Technion. Lewin had emigrated to Israel with his parents at age 14 and had worked at IBM's research lab in Haifa, Israel. Lewin was a co-founder and chief technology officer of Akamai Technologies, and lived in Boston with his family. A report in Ha'aretz on Sept. 17 identified Lewin as a former member of the Israel Defense Force Sayeret Matkal, a top-secret counter-terrorist unit, whose Unit 269 specializes in counter-terrorism activities outside of Israel.

"While I have serious reservations about the official story; I think more than anything what they are hiding is not some grand conspiracy to hide their crimes...but rather their in incompetence in protecting us."

Oh really? The American Government had to hide their incompetence in failing to protect the American people on 9/11? Three thousand dead bodies is not enough evidence for any sane person to realize the Government screwed up royally? Interesting.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
I'm sorry you don't know what's going on in Washington.
And go dig up Micheal Jackson, he will tell you how the Jews are running the Music biz in America.
Or ask someone who made it in the biz, and ask them.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

A passive mock hijacking. Its been proven that it does happen and that sometimes civilians are used as well as the emergency response team not being alerted of the exercise to test and document response and tactics as if it was a real life situation.

Well, I certainly hope you can find something to prove this statement.

Because, I HAVE NEVER heard of it, not in over twenty years with an airline, NOR has anyone I've ever talked to, any of my colleagues, ever mentioned it.

Those sorts of drills ARE done, in mock exercises, ON THE GROUND, in training simulations. I've seen the videos, how air marshals are trained (they wear masks, in the videos, to conceal their identities). I won't say any more about the marshal program.


As to the rest....the only thing wrong there, is the 'worldnetdaily' piece. IF you go to that FAA situation summary, written BEFORE all the facts were in, it was riddled with errors, not only of the timeline, but, like the way the 'Truthers" have inferred and gotten it wrong, due to innuendo and improper speaking, without all of the facts at hand first, the report of a gunshot were simply incorrect.

Note that the israeli reprots you cited say nothing of a gun, not in the snippets you posted.

If I link and read the rest, do they then mention a gunshot?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nevermind, I went to read it for myself.

Here:

Some time after the attack the Lewin family in Jerusalem received a telephone call from the FBI offices in New York. On the line was the agent responsible for the investigation of the attack on Flight 11. He told Peggy and Charles Lewin that there is a high degree of certainty that their son Danny tried to prevent the hijacking. The FBI relied, among other things, on the testimony of the stewardess Amy Sweeney.

Sweeney called Michael Woodward, the flight services supervisor in Boston, from the rear of the plane: "a hijacker slit the throat of a passenger in business class and the passenger appears to me to be dead." To this day the American investigators are not convinced that Danny Lewin was murdered on the spot. An additional stewardess, Betty Ong, who succeeded in calling from a telephone by one of the passenger seats, said that the passenger who was attacked from business class seat 10B was seriously wounded.

From israel news, your same source.

Hmmmmm.....'slit the throat'....

Must have been that little boxcutter that "Truthers" claim would be useless in a hijacking?

Please, stop perpetuating the 'gunshot' myth, simply because someone, early one, specualted about it!!!

Does your "movement" no good.




[edit on 4 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Sean48


You really missed the whole point of that by a couple of ballparks.

reply to post by Anti-Evil


So here is what I have to offer to this thread. Basically Israel has a history of third-party terrorism, which is aimed at convincing one side to launch a war against another.

"For example, it was believed that the bomb that exploded on April 5, 1986, in the Berlin Le Belle disco, which was frequented by US officers, had been detonated by Libyan terrorists. The attack wounded 230 people and killed two US servicemen and a Turkish woman. Soon after the attack, the Reagan administration accused Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi of responsibility for the bombing. Ten days later, the US launched a massive air attack on Libya. It now seems clear, however, that the La Belle bombing was carried out by Mossad agent Mohammed Amairi and his colleague "Mahmoud" Abu Jaber, together with Musbah Eter, a CIA informant in the Libyan embassy. This operation was conducted a month after Mossad and Israeli naval special forces had installed a "Trojan"--a communications device--on Libyan territory. This device transmitted false Libyan messages that were then picked up and decoded by Western intelligence and became the false evidence used to justify a major US attack on Libya. Similar to the Lavon Affair in 1954, this incident now appears to have been an Israeli attack on US interests in order to create tension between the US and an Arab state." -- 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out

So the history is there. Every countries intelligence agencies have agents in other countries intelligence agencies. This is a given and a must in today's world due to weapons of mass destruction, depleted natural resources, and plain old fear.

Just know that these intelligence agencies do things that everyday citizens would never dream of. Very complex and very secretive stuff, at least to everyday citizens.

That is why it is so hard to trace, will most likely never be proven (unless decades later when it has seemingly become a non-issue to 99.9% of the population), and why it sounds so fantastic.

The "Jews did 9/11" thread that was labelled a HOAX last year still has it's followers desperate to revive this thoroughly disproven conjecture. ATS member "mikesingh" left when it was revealed he had lifted the text and pictures from a White Supremacist forum which laughably had items like "the guy who rented space in the basement level shopping mall of the WTC is Israel - so therefore he must be involved."

If "Evil Zoisnts did it" one wonders why so many Muslim world perpetrators, like confessed planner and co-ordinator Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, didn't notice any Jews around, why al Qaida took credit, and so many outspoken imams and mullahs consider it a day of triumph. And what about all the hijacker suicide tapes, numerous enabler confessions, fund transfers and recordings to places Pakistan, Yemen, etc.

Ready to believe anything 9/11 Truthers meet ready to believe anything Jew-haters. Instant love-in.

www.jpost.com...

... the various "Jews-did-it" scenarios emanating from the wreckage of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon have proven stubbornly resilient.

"If anything, they're flourishing," said Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a liberal think-tank based in Somerville, Mass. The idea that Jews were somehow involved in Sept. 11 has now become a permanent feature in the conspiracy pantheon, like the JFK assassination and the Oklahoma City bombing," said Mark Pitcavage, director of fact finding for the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).

The Internet is the chief incubator and disseminator of apocryphal Sept. 11 story lines, and cyberspace remains awash with chatter purporting to link the Jews with America's worst terrorist attacks, according to Pitcavage. But the same message, he added, also is being spread through books, pamphlets, videos and speakers. The practical impact of this phenomenon remains unclear.

The purveyors are an eclectic aggregation that spans the geopolitical spectrum. They include neo-Nazis and other white supremacists in the United States and elsewhere, anti-government zealots, young anti-war activists, Holocaust deniers, Lyndon Larouche supporters, New Age ideologues, propagandists and journalists within the Arab and Muslim world, as well as assorted devotees of the early 20th-century forgery "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," which purports to document a Jewish plan to dominate the world. Efforts to connect the Jews with Sept. 11, however, are not limited to fringe groups talking with one another.

The Sept. 11 assaults triggered an almost immediate outpouring of conspiracist conjecture, in part because of the bizarre, almost implausible nature of the attacks, according to Michael Barkun, a professor of political science at Syracuse University who has studied extremist movements and their philosophies.

"These events cried out for some sort of explanation," Barkun said. "This was a golden opportunity for conspiracy theorists to introduce their theories to a broader audience. The thing to remember about conspiracy theories is that they are profoundly psychologically comforting. They give sense and meaning to the world. Nothing is arbitrary or accidental or coincidental."

Not all of the explanatory hypotheses stemming from Sept. 11 implicate Jews. Some accuse the United States government, for example, of being aware of the attacks and doing nothing to stop them in order to justify military intervention in the Muslim world.
But early on anti-Semitic finger pointing came to dominate the revisionist view of Sept. 11, according to a report issued in 2003 by the ADL. These accusations brought "'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' into the 21st century," updating a familiar theme -- that "Jews are inherently evil and have a 'master plan' to rule the world," says the report, which profiles the Sept. 11 conspiracists' cast of suspected plotters and other scapegoats.
…

These assertions either have been laughed off as preposterous -- or investigated and discredited. The "spy ring" story, for example, may have emanated from a disclosure that a number of young Israelis who violated their visas had been deported from the United States.

Subsequent reports intimating that the deportees had been engaged in sinister, clandestine activities were examined by The Washington Post, among others, and found to be "nothing more than an urban myth," according to the ADL report.

But the fact that conspiracy theories have been disproven is largely irrelevant to the theories' adherents, according to Barkun. The reason, he said, is that die-hard conspiracy mongers are united by their embrace of what he calls "rejected knowledge."

"These people are profoundly distrustful of authority. It seems absurd to the rest of us, but in the mirror world that conspiracy theorists live, anything that is rejected by mainstream institutions must therefore be true," Barkun said.
…

"Our environment today is not conducive to a critical-thinking approach, especially with the instant access we have to so much information," Manza said. "If it's on the Internet and the graphics are good, it must be true." But why does it necessarily follow that the Jews in particular were the unseen hand behind America's most infamous terrorist attack?

Because they had something to gain from Sept. 11, according to conspiracists, who contend that military retaliation against Arabs was its own reward for the Jews and Israel.

Asked why the Jews were implicated in the attacks, Barkun said, "You might as well ask, 'Why does anti-Semitism exist?'

Unfortunately, the concept is deeply rooted in Western culture. And like a lot of conspiracy theories, it's a closed system of ideas that is structured so that it's impossible to disprove."

In a sense, the extremist explanations for Sept. 11 are merely an update of conspiracy theories that have been evolving ever since the Crusades, according to conservative columnist and analyst Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, who has written two books examining conspiracy theories.

Virtually every major conspiracy theory hatched over the past 900 years has featured one of two key elements, Pipes said. One is so-called "secret societies," such as the Trilateral Commission -- an influential coalition of influential private citizens -- as well as suspected government cabals; the other is the Jews.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by mmiichael]

[edit on 4-3-2010 by mmiichael]

Please concentrate on the topic.

Thank you.



Peace on.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

A passive mock hijacking. Its been proven that it does happen and that sometimes civilians are used as well as the emergency response team not being alerted of the exercise to test and document response and tactics as if it was a real life situation.

Must have been that little boxcutter that "Truthers" claim would be useless in a hijacking?

Please, stop perpetuating the 'gunshot' myth, simply because someone, early one, specualted about it!!!

Does your "movement" no good.


]

He'd be more than a match for those skinny little (expletive)," said Brad Rephen, a New York lawyer who grew up with Lewin in Jerusalem. "With his training, he would have killed them with his bare hands."
"I can tell you, their knives would not have stopped him," he added. "He would have taken their knives or their box cutters away and used them against them"
Rephen recalls Lewin's injured hands after he returned from an Israeli anti-terrorist training course. - "They were pretty beaten up from the fighting he did," he said. "He knew how to fight with knives and take knives away from people."
He described Lewin, at about 5-11, 200 pounds, as "thick-boned." He says he witnessed him bench-press more than 300 pounds and squat close to 500 pounds. - "He was very, very strong and had a lot of meat on him," Rephen said. "They couldn't have subdued him by slashing him. The only way they could have stopped him was by shooting him."

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

Please, stop perpetuating the 'gunshot' myth, simply because someone, early one, specualted about it!!!

WASHINGTON – An internal Federal Aviation Administration memo detailing a shooting aboard hijacked American Airlines Flight 11 is not likely a mistake, as claimed, and the government and the airline may be denying the existence of a gun aboard the plane out of fear of being sued by Sept. 11 victims' families, charges a former veteran FAA special agent familiar with the memo and its source.

www.wnd.com... ( attack this source) sigh

Here is a pic of the report. www.wnd.com...


[edit on 4-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

There is also an equally as heavy Saudi Arabian Gorilla to consider. The events of 9/11 were not a clear-cut case of one group benefiting. It was a day filled with complexity and misdirection.

Who are we not focussing on for the events that took place that day? Which groups have benefited from the events and barely have any attention being focussed upon them? Which groups/countries gain from making other countries look complicit? This Web is very long and intricate indeed!

[edit on 4/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Shadow Herder


(sigh) yourself.

That is still the same "source" you cited originally....'WND' is "WorldNetDaily".....

They have such a poor reputation that they use the intials, now. Like 'Blackwater' became 'Xe'.

It's the same claptrap....from that same memo, that evening, with all the same mistakes. Nothing new,.

Here, chew on this (of course you're going to insist he's lying?)

American spokesman John Hotard angrily denied any truth to the gun account in the memo, saying he has no idea where the FAA got the information.

Now, he continues...

He also noted that other things in the Flight 11 summary, such as times, are wildly inaccurate.

Which was my exact point, earlier!

All the rest, about the "fear" of being "sued" is pure speculation!
The fact that it is KNOWN that some sort of 'mace' or pepper spray managed to make it past security is grounds enough, IF a lawsuit alleging poor security were to be brought!!! FYI, those items are ALOS banned! And, yes...even back in 2001, screeners were finding such iterms, and confiscating them....when (IF) they found them.

Really, knowing some history is a good thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You can "read all about it" right here.

[edit on 4 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker



That is your opinion of course. We will let people decide for themselves after they review the evidence and links.

We know your stance. Every answer.... .No, not true, bla bla bla. and PROVE IT.

This was best written by the owner of this site......

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by ( a debunker)
PROVE IT !!!!!

AboveTopSecret.com is a discussion venue originally created to support speculative examination of conspiracy theories and other "alternative" topics. While we support and strongly desire a balanced debate with the objective of discovering the truth, participants must be aware of our roots as a "conspiracy theory" website.

With that in mind, antagonistic contributions such as that quoted above are not in the spirit of ATS. There are other sites devoted to derision of conspiracy speculation that embraces such antagonism, but not AboveTopSecret.com.

If you're a skeptical participant that would prefer to see a higher standard of substantiation, please frame your request in a more collaborative manner or you may be asked to refrain from participating.

Thank you.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

reply to post by Shadow Herder


That was pretty much the way you answered GoodOleDave, just minutes ago, in another thread!

You wrote "bla, bla, bla"

Something else, like "You'll never convince us"....

So much for having open minds, huh?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, here it is:

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Yawn.... We all know that World trade Center 7 was brought down in a controlled manner, explosive etc.... and was no freak collapse.

Now just drop it. You are getting no where, believe us.

"Us"????

All I can say is...wow!

What happens is there is SO MUCH BAD info out there, on other internet sites, most of it unsubstantiated in any way, shape or form. Rumor, innuendo. Many times, outright lies because in those cases someone has something to sell....it is self-perpetuating. And too many fall for it. Still, a very small minority, but the cancer is spreading as these people revise history.

[edit on 4 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
There is also an equally as heavy Saudi Arabian Gorilla to consider. The events of 9/11 were not a clear-cut case of one group benefiting. It was a day filled with complexity and misdirection.

8 and a half years after the even we now have a long paper trail, warehouses full of documentation, recorded conversations, receipts,
testimony, confessions, etc. Gathered by intelligence services in a few dozen countries from Germany and Russia to the Philippines and Egypt.

Saudi royal family funding, a contingency of princes. Pakistan's ISI co-ordinating. Various terrorist factions in Turkey, Yemen, and cells in the US. We are led to belive these people were responsible in great part because they have told us so and provided specifics.

In the same week as the Jewish New Year the primary target just happened to be the city with the largest Jewish population anywhere any time. And right in the heart of the financial district of Manhattan where in a building where thousands of Jews work.

No tangible evidence and a mountain of contradictory data and testimony, but there are still people either naive of so filled with racial hatred they will buy into anything.






[edit on 4-3-2010 by mmiichael]

"Ready to believe anything 9/11 Truthers meet ready to believe anything Jew-haters. Instant love-in."

By the way, isn't one aspect of antisemitism about painting a group of people with the same brush? Judging from your post above, how is it that you can condemn something which you practice?