Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 1

reply to post by Melissa101


Don't be concerned with where this is going. We've already been to the "why did god do it" part. I specifically want to know your answer to the question:

Is it acceptable to you that God is the source of the source of all evil? If it is, I won't hold it against you. I just want you to think on that specific point.

I will have another question after that, though The elenchus isn't as effective online as it is in dialogues starring Socrates...

reply to post by Melissa101


I can tell you why, the same reason the Darkness was made before the Light.

Without the Darkness you can't see the light, it is just what is, there is nothing to define it.

However still I ask why the buck should stop lower for acts of evil then for good ?

I ask because I think your perception of the devils function is making you see things that are not so.

Well,Melissa,you'll certainly have your hands full with this thread!

God bless you! Try not to get discouraged with the opposition to your stance,...it is legion!

I look forward to the parts to follow.

i wonder op if you know the meanings and origins of the words your bible uses. lets look at just three of them for a moment.

lets start with demon ok

"Ancient Greek δαίμων daimōn is a word for "spirit" or "divine power", much like the Latin genius. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives the etymology of the Greek word as from the verb daiesthai "to divide, distribute." The Greek conception of a δαίμων notably appears in the works of Plato, where it describes the divine inspiration of Socrates. To distinguish the classical Greek concept from its later Christian interpretation, it is usually anglicized as either daemon or daimon rather than demon.
The Greek term does not have any connotations of evil or malevolence. In fact, εὐδαιμονία, literally "good-spiritedness", is a term for "happiness". The term first acquired its now-current evil connotations in the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible, informed by the mythology of the ancient Semitic religions. This connotation was inherited by the Koine text of the New Testament. The medieval and neo-medieval conception of a "demon" in Western civilization (see the Medieval grimoire called the Ars Goetia) derives seamlessly from the ambient popular culture of Late (Roman) Antiquity. Greco-Roman concepts of daemons that passed into Christian culture are discussed in the entry daemon, though it should be duly noted that the term referred only to a spiritual force, not a malevolent supernatural being. The Hellenistic "daemon" eventually came to include many Semitic and Near Eastern gods as evaluated by Christianity."
en.wikipedia.org...

ok so we have here a word the denotes a spiritual being with no moral catagorization of good or evil.

lets look at devil shall we?

"devil (from Greek diabolos, “slanderer,” or “accuser”), the spirit or power of evil. Though sometimes used for minor demonic spirits, the word devil generally refers to the prince of evil spirits and as such takes various forms in the religions of the world."
www.britannica.com...

so here we have a word that has the meaning of slanderer or accuser. once again not a word that by its meaning alone forces evil onto the world.

lets move on to the big daddy himself .

satan
"
proper name of the supreme evil spirit in Christianity, O.E. Satan, from L.L. Satan (in Vulgate, in O.T. only), from Gk. Satanas, from Heb. satan "adversary, one who plots against another," from satan "to show enmity to, oppose, plot against," from root s-t-n "one who opposes, obstructs, or acts as an adversary." In Septuagint (Gk.) usually translated as diabolos "slanderer," lit. "one who throws (something) across" the path of another (see devil), though epiboulos "plotter" is used once. "
www.etymonline.com...

so heres a word thats meaning is adversary one who makes difficulty for others. a word that can just as easily be used to describ a normal person such as that guy in the office across from you working to take the big promotion away from you.

now while there is much debate about the nature or origin of this being you still use these words to incorrectly propose some one who creates all evil or negative things in exsistance. because you read them in a compilation of books written by many men, chosen as being relevant and important by many other men about events from a time before they were born, while throwing out other books about said events and philosophys written by other men. then this book was used to teach or in many cases force on to them other men, a philosophy and morality system by men who could read and wright a skill not very common at the time and then interpret and reinterpret countless times, rewritten and badly translatted many times.

and you belive that makes this a valid material to use to prove the point that the occult (and by your own given definition every religon that dosent worship the god in that compilation of books) equates to worship of this hazely defined creater of all negativity ? and that this shouldent be considered offensive to those of us whos spiritual belifes fall in to that rather broad catagory?

wow just wow.

Havent read all the posts, but the difference between SATANISM and OCCULTISM is, if anyone hasnt mentioned it earlier, the following -

Satanism is in relation to SATAN. Black magic, devilworshipping etc, while OCCULTISM is in relation to what is HIDDEN, occult simply means hidden, nothing more.

Over the years the church have joined the two together, painting devil worship and esoterism with the same brush..

As the church always says - "if you dont understand it - burn it.

hmmm

However, I was asked to do this without using the Bible as a reference.

(fail....all your suppositions rely on the bible)
in fact without the bible there is no such thing as satan.

This you tube link is a starting point you can find much more information by Google-ing the subject and by reading the first few books of the Bible.

(again "by reading the first few books of the Bible")
It is impossible to mention satanism without reference to the bible.

Along with Paganism, Wicken and I could go on but you get the point.

no I don't get the point, I make mine below.

pa·gan
–noun
1.one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2.a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
3.an irreligious or hedonistic person.
–adjective
4.pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim.
5.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.
6.irreligious or hedonistic.

scource

Wic·ca
n.
A. polytheistic Neo-Pagan nature religion inspired by various pre-Christian western European beliefs, whose central deity is a mother goddess and which includes the use of herbal magic and benign witchcraft.
A. group or community of believers or followers of this religion.

scource

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia occultism

Theories, practices, and rituals based on esoteric knowledge of the world of spirits and unknown forces. The wide range of occult beliefs and practices includes astrology, alchemy, divination, magic, and witchcraft and sorcery. Devotees of occultism seek to explore spiritual mysteries through what they regard as higher powers of the mind. The Western tradition of occultism has its roots in Hellenistic magic, alchemy and in the Jewish mysticism associated with the Kabbala.

Columbia Encyclopedia: occultism

belief in supernatural sciences or powers, such as magic, astrology, alchemy, theosophy, and spiritism, either for the purpose of enlarging man's powers, of protecting him from evil forces, or of predicting the future.

The word occult means "to hide from view" or "to conceal." Occult practices are those that claim to deal, in a secret or hidden manner, with supernatural forces or agencies.

This large and vague description, fitting a host of undefined but almost superstitiously feared practices, is revealing. Those who practice traditional, established religion tend to use the word "occult" whenever faced with describing something they don't understand, fear greatly, or wish to condemn.

scource

In conclusion: Nowhere in my research have I found occultism and satanism mentioned together.

Your belief in the bible leads you to believe in satan and that there are people who practice satanism, however to connect these people to occultism, paganism, wicca etc, is IMO based on very little research and a complete failure to understand the broader concepts of human beliefs throughout history.

A pagan was anyone who was not a christian, jew or muslim, someone who's beliefs, in fact pre-dated christianity and were in no way connected with the bible/jewish god or any religion that came afterwards.
Any other religion than the ones sprung from the bible/torah was labelled pagan.

Pre-bible religions cannot be associated with satanism as satanism requires a belief in the bible stories.

btw: yes I am a pagan and a non practicing wiccan and I am NOT a satanist.

"I do not believe in god therefore I cannot believe in satan as they come from the same scource".

.

Most Occultists really have very little time for satanists. It may be that a better phrase to help understanding is Gnosticism. There are Xtian Gnostics also. All of us want a deeper understanding of god. Many Occultists have had expereinces long before they decided to explore the occult.

Actually the bettter occult groups do not allow everyone one in as it is not for everyone. They also never hold anyone against their will.

I would argue that the contactee experience is really the same as mediumism.


On a practical level we have actually got four pages of conversation going with a minimum of trollery and "my way or the high way thinking".

I do not wish to convert anyone. I love paganism but would hate to see it become the state religion. We do not need to proselytise.

Rgds

T


[edit on 3-3-2010 by Tiger5]

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by Melissa101

to prove my theory that Occultism and Satanism is the same thing.

Isn't occultism just the study of the knowledge hidden in nature? If occultism and satanism are one in the same then were our ancient ancestors practicing satanism when they attempted to learn the mysteries of fire and to obtain mastery over it?

[edit on 3-3-2010 by harvib]

A little story time is in order:-

Once, a man stood upon the summit of a large mountain and in his hands was a magnificent gem. It was perfect in every way you could imagine, yet the man had no thoughts of "value or riches". As he walked on the summit he stumbled, the gem fell down the mountain side and smashed into tiny pieces.

Other people picked up those little gems and exclaimed, "Look at the beautiful gem I have, it is perfect." Another would yell, "But my gem is more perfect than that one."

Yet none of those people realised how they only held one tiny fragment of that real Perfection.

Here ends story time.

And the moral of the story is; those who picked up the fragments believed only they held the perfect gem. They proclaimed it to the world as such a thing.

Don't religions do the same thing over the history of mankind? Isn't it possible that like the gem in the parable above, Truth could be the Perfect Gem that was fragmented into so many pieces?

Before Christianity arrived in many parts of the world there existed a Love and Reverence for the Creator of Earth and its Bounty. The people made representations of it in such a way as they could explain and understand those "Bigger Pictures". And this was how things were for many millenia.

When Christianity did arrive into those same countries, it usually did so at the point of a Roman Sword. "Convert or Die" was the saying no matter the language. So many died for the Creator of their world instead of Believing what was being forced upon them by the Soldiers.

In Celtic cultures it was understood that "All Gods Are One". And so the people were happy to accept the story of Jesus, although they did not like the way it was being forced upon them as if LAW. Of course it was part of Roman Law in those countries.

One of the "Winning the Hearts and Minds" routines used was to take over what had been considered to be Sacred to the Creator in these cultures. And so we see small churches/chapels and the like built on Water Springs, hilltops, etc. What this was intended to do was take advantage of the native people going to these sites to commune with the Creator, and, Indoctrinate them into the New Way, Christianity, and the Laws that Supported the Religion.

Then of course, because people where still communing with the Creator on their own in a very personal way, the Church then banned so many things that were known to assist a person to commune directly, and knowingly.. no hint of doubt, with the Creator/God.

And so all of it was made Taboo, aligned with Evil, and therefore Satan. In a sense what it did was try to remove every single other fractured piece of Gem from the world so that its piece of fractured gem would be seen as Perfect, and thus the Only Truth.

Well, humans do have free will, and we need to realise that humans used it freely for their benefit.

The thing that is being represented in the Garden of Eden, or E.Din (The First Place/Time), by The Snake has come down to us as being Satan, the Evil One.

Yet strangley, when you go to the original sources for Genesis it is not an "evil one" being represented by the Symbol of the Snake. Instead, it is the one who Created us and Loved us. The Symbol of the Snake was part of the insignia for the "House of Life".

In the Sumerian tales, which are the original Source of Genesis, the One who Created us was hated by his brother. He was also the one who informed the Bible's Noah (Sumerian:- Utnapishtim) of the impending flood and how to build a cylinder-shaped Su-Le-Le (Underwater Boat) or Ark as it has been translated in the Bible.

Because the One who Created us and Loved us was ordered not to tell the human beings of the Water that would come, his Brother who hated him made sure he was punished severely for breaking the oath he made. He then was seen as the Bad One for breaking this Oath.

And as has happened so very often after this, the Brother who hated the Creator of Man ensured that all those who came after would remember the One Who Loved Us as the Evil One. Even to the extent of taking the snake symbol from the Caduceus (Our modern Health/Doctor symbol and symbol of The House of Life) and using it to represent his "naughty" brother for all time to come.

Hence why the Snake in the Garden of Eden says what he does to Adam; that is The Adamma model created for the purpose intended.

So after all my ranting it should be possible to see a few things that are quite important to this discussion....

One, is that Christianity is a Victor Religion in that using superior firepower and manpower it converted a large portion of the world's population and continued over the following millenia to Indoctrinate all those born to the Followers, which insures the survival of the Belief-System.

Two, is the thing that Christianity calls Satan, is a misnomer. And it is very much misunderstood due to the manipulation of someone powerful in the early church. Instead of being this thing called Satan who is supposedly an Evil One, it was really the God who Created us. Our Creator that we call God.

Three, is the usurping of ancient Concepts, Beliefs, Festivals and Sites as a way to remove the old ways from the people, and still have them come along to pay Lip-Service anyway. This is nearly the same thing China did in Tibet.

Fourth, is the making Taboo of all the ancient ways people could commune with the real God, the Real Creator, in the Creator's Creation. This made it very easy to Indoctrinate and Enforce what had become Law

Fifth, is simply that all these things put together show a pattern of abuse, free-will powered abuse used by those who took it upon themselves to tell the Plebs what God Wants from them. This was easy to do also because the Plebs were not educated enough in Latin to read it for themselves and understand it for themselves.. as they had been doing for Millenia before the Laws came with the Swords.

Lastly, phew, bet you're looking forward to the end of this post You are entitled to your Beliefs and Opinions, and I will not judge you adversely for them. I only post to share some information so that people can make a slightly more informed decision about what they Choose to Believe.


PS, edited for spelling



[edit on 3-3-2010 by Tayesin]

Wow...first thing that comes to mind is ohhh the ignorance!! If you have, indeed studied anything as you claim to have done you should know that Wicca, Paganism, The Occult and Satanism are not at all one in the same, Christians tend to think Paganism and Occult practices are evil and the 'work of the devil' because some bigot of a God didnt want any competition..

This may sound like an attack, and for that i am sorry, but it really makes my blood boil when so called studies do nothing to actually help a persons understanding.
All religions are linked, mainly because they were stolen from other belief systems and re-written to suit the writers own agendas... Paganism is where most all Christian celebrations come from, and most Christians do understand this, leading to one of the major reasons that Jehova Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas or Easter for example..(no, i am not saying its the only reason, but its one of them)
As a practicing Occultist since a young age, and knowing many, many others who practice such arts, know without a doubt that what we do has nothing at all to do with Satanism.. to involve ones self in Satanism, one must first believe in Satan. All Magicks and the Occult can be used for either negative or postiive means, as can any belief/faith system.. so called 'light vs dark' is needed in every life aspect in order to remain balanced.
In respect, i would suggest to keep studying, and not just biased views but all views.

Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 1


Well then Fruit and apples are also the same thing. I will henceforth give up making a shoping list when I go to the supermarket and just ask for three pounds of fruit.

I will then complain about the NWO plot when I get fruit that i do not like.

The simple truth is that the Occult is a huge topic within which satanism is a very mnior topic as most occultists see no reason to concern themselves with satan.

Sorry to be so mundane about it but that is it.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

 

Agreed, Satan sits on the front row at church everytime the doors are open. I believe he is the head of one of the most promentant Christian churches in the world. As I continue my explinations I will explain more in this subject.

Please I can hardly wait for this revelation. How can an evil entity sit in a church?

I suppose that we are all doomed now.

Oh Melissa, I have a feeling that you knew I was going to pop into this thread at some point.

I am not going to lambaste you or flame you in this thread, because I do respect your opinion, and I would die to defend your right to say it.

But it doesn't mean I agree with what you are saying.



Without darkness, there can be no light. Without evil there cannot be good.

Omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience are in of themselves a paradox. If the Christian God were so good and benevolent, why would he allow bad things to keep going on in the world? Well, you could respond that he gave man free-will, and that dictates what goes on...out of his hands. Well, I disagree with that, and I'll tell you why.

In order to have free-will, we must be able to freely make our own choices. If God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, then the statement that he gave man free-will is false. If an omnipresent being sees everything: past, present, future, and that same God "has a plan" then how does man truly have free will? According to that argument, if God knows what is going to happen and that he has a plan for everybody, then nobody can truly be free. In the same respect, a boiled down motto that I have heard time and time again is: Love God and have a relationship with him. What if you choose not to? Well, you go to Hell. That's pretty simple. Love me, or get jabbed by hot pokers for all eternity? That doesn't sound like free-will at all...

To make the claim that Occultism and Satanism are the same thing is just down right ludicrous. In order to be a Satanist, you would have to believe what the Bible says *and* you would have to have a belief in a Christian God. Last time I checked, Wiccans do not believe in the Bible, or a Christian God, or the words written in the Bible.

The pagan religions started out as a form of nature worship, because after all, the Earth gave birth to us, so why not respect it and return what you use? Christianity took many of the Pagan religious events and combined them with Christian events in the hopes that they could convert more people to the cause as it were.

And lastly, the Bible. Well, this book was indeed transcribed by man, and according to the same document, man is fallible. Could we not say that maybe, just maybe man didn't hear the words right? There's also the case that the Bible has been written and re-written several times since it's conception, mostly to take out or add an individual's own interpretations of what should have been said. This has been well known for a very long time, and with all those revisions, how can one know what was truly written in it to begin with? Even the King James version had several re-writes, changes, and deletions, so how can one truly know what was said in the original document? Have you read the original version? I don't think anybody has.

Okay, so you have faith that the words are true. I'll give you that. But I also have faith that what I do on a daily basis is doing good in this world. If I do good, then how can I be an agent of Satan? Especially when I don't believe in the Christian sense of heaven and hell?

I'm not sure if you started this thread to bash Pagans, or if you did it because you truly believe the words. If you do truly believe, more power to you. I respect you for that. But I'm going to politely ask you not to judge those of us who believe in a different power in the universe, just as I don't judge you. I honestly think we're all right and all wrong at the same time, and this debate will go on and on until your God himself shows up with his fiery spear to wipe out all the non-believers. Until that day comes, I think we're all shooting in the dark.

I'll leave you with a quote:

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful [as the Babel fish] could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God.

The argument goes like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn’t thought of that," and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

Thank you for taking the time to read my argument, and peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by seattletruth


Sigh...I sure wish some of you would use that search engine a little better. You people are lumping "occult" and "satan" together, and they are not one and the same.

occult
1. of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
2. beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
3. secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
4. hidden from view.

satan
the chief evil spirit; the great adversary of humanity; the devil.

So pray tell, how are these one and the same?

Satan is an invention of the Church, Occult Science is Ancient Knowledge.

The only reason Christians are so severely warned against the study of the Occult Sciences is because the leaders do no want you to find out that you do not need then to find your way to the Source. You people remind me of Lester Sumrall, I once heard him give a lecture on the Kabbala, and he did not know one thing about it, he just made up stuff to make it look evil.

I have said it before, I will say it again. Stop believing everything the preacher says and read it for yourself, then decide if it is evil or good!

The Occult is secret, hidden knowledge that the Church knows, but does not want you to know. Remember, Cult-religion is solely created for exploitation, domination and power over the general public. It will not guarantee you anything. Educate yourself, and be Free!

reply to post by Melissa101


Satan is a representation of ego so Satan is real. True satanism is much different from what people think it is. It is about being the best man animal you can be. Not killing and such, however the major religions have no problem killing in the name of their God. You must not know much about the occult; like religions it is a way to learn the truth of things. When approached with a closed mind you will not know truth through any of these; wicca, islam, christianity, etc. Your bible has the real answers but most only take it a matter of fact instead of reading between the lines. Wake up please. Love and peace

reply to post by Melissa101


Well Melissa, as you already know (but to bring everyoe else up to speed), it was me that set you this challenge (on another thread), and I have to admire the fact that you picked up the challenge and ran with it.

I have briefly skimmed through all the pages so far, but need to retrace my steps in order to pick-up on the important points made by you and other posters before I add a detailed post.

In spite of your efforts (my hat is of to you btw), to specifically explain your opinions and how you reached them ... without resorting to the bible as your sole reference ... it would seem that others have made it an impossible task ... but I look forward to the other elements of the thread, where hopefully you will be able to draw on other sources and experiences that helped to form your opinions.

As things stand at the moment you will doubtless see that many people have differing opinions from your own and several of these posters have put forward extremely good posts to explain why they disagree with you.

What is also noticible in this thread is that so far everyone is discussing like adults ... which makes a refreshing change on this forum. And that is one of the things I hoped you would discover when offering you the challenge in the first place.

Thanks for letting me know you'd started the thread and I shall return once I've digested the content so far.

Brightest Blessings

Woody

Originally posted by Tiger5
Please I can hardly wait for this revelation. How can an evil entity sit in a church?

A church is nothing more than a building. You may think it's "sacred" ground or something, I don't know. However, I'd like to know where you come to that conclusion if that is the conclusion you have.

What is your objective in creating this thread?

What solution are you offering and to what problem?

How are occultists, pagans, or Satanists affecting your life?

The website “adherents.com” lists over 4300 faith groups in the world. You are a Christian. So what? You believe in the Bible. So what?

I am an eclectic Pagan. So what? Not your faith, nor your lifestyle, nor your beliefs, affect my life in any way. How do I affect yours?

You can tell me that I am a friend of Satan and going to burn in hell when I die. Those are Christian beliefs, so why would I care what your religion has to say about mine?

“But… but… but…. You’ll burn in hell Jon!”, the Christian says! In your faith THAT IS the penalty for not believing in your faith. One must first believe in your faith for that penalty to have any bearing on anything.

Do you know what the penelty for not believing in my faith is? NOTHING! You just lose out on enjoying your life to its fullest because you don't spend your whole life, every waking moment, obsessing about the afterlife and all the "rewards" you will receive for being a good Christian. Hope that all works out for you by the way!

Let's just take this a step further:

If I created a faith that said that if you don’t eat ice cream every Tuesday at 5pm (mmmm I love ice cream…love it!) and if you don’t eat it at the prescribed schedule then when you die some big scary guy is going to stick you in the eye repeatedly with a red hot poker, then you might want to sign up for the regular Tuesday ice cream eating. (Just in case! Don't want to take any chances!)

You tell all your friends about your solemn covenant with ice cream to avoid the red hot poker man, with nothing more as proof than your faith and a brochure from the local ice cream shop. Coincidentally, the ice cream shop owner, who is generally slow on Tuesdays, has been distributing his divinely inspired ice cream menu all over town.

Faith. That’s all you have is faith, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Believe as you like! Pointing to the Bible, written by others (of the same faith system), is just a circular argument. You can’t prove faith to be "absolute" with other works of faith.

So again….

What is your point of trying to mount an intellectual argument on the basis of faith alone?

It’s a moot argument and completely pointless.

You might as just as well have written, “Hello. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior and the only path to God and Heaven. Anything that is not specifically in the Bible is Satanism, in my spiritual view. If you don’t believe in my faith, or if you believe in some other faith, you WILL go to hell. You are nothing but a Satanist with some other name. I have no proof of this but just know that I will be in heaven riding around on clouds and farting rainbows. Don’t you wish you could be like me?”

No… no I really don’t wish I could be like you because blind faith is often embraced by those who are emotionally and/or mentally damaged. I just got done reading your first several paragraphs outlining your early emotional damage. Clearly a faith that embraces a magical man who will give you everything you ever wanted when you die, because the life you live has had major downers, is something very inviting to those who have had rotten lives on Earth. I don't need a real father because I have an imaginary father in heaven who loves me more than anything (unless of course I cross him, in which case he will send me to a fiery pit of hell to agonize forever... but never mind that).

Those of us who have controlled our own destinies in life and have had pretty good lives due to our own moral compass and positive Karma are often open to reading about different ways of expressing our spirituality.

Many of us are well educated, well adjusted, mentally stable, and well read in many of the world’s religions including folk/Earth based spirituality. The common Christian retort to those who are self-guided spiritually is that all of that "other stuff" was created by Satan to pull us away from Jesus.

By the way, I hear that the ice cream shop owner is going on the attack of Pita shop down the street. They say they are selling poison. It must be poison because it’s not ice cream and clearly the ice cream menu says that ice cream is only food suitable for human consumption on Tuesdays. All other foods are poison. Don't try them, or you might die.

The bottom line is that Faith is Faith, and nothing more. Your motivation in creating this thread, I suspect, is just to further self-validate your faith and conviction that you will have the love you have always desired here on Earth (and have not adequately received) waiting for you in Heaven. I hope you do for your sake.

Perhaps it would behoove you to figure out how to integrate more happiness in your life right now, along-side your Christian beliefs (which are fine as long as they aren't ALL you have). Perhaps your happiness shouldn’t be derived from cutting-down other people’s belief systems to make yourself feel even more empowered, even more special to God, even more likely to get an EXTRA BIG hug from that "daddy" in Heaven that may or may not exist.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


I respect your ideas and beliefs. If this thread is so upsetting to you that you write such a lengthy explination as to how Christianity does not affect you then may I suggest that you move on to a thread that is less upsetting to you? The reason for the thread is explained in my OP and in a couple of reply's. I honestly hope you find peace with yourself and your faith.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


On another note; I have a father on earth that I am very close to. Just because he is an alcholic does not mean he and I are not close and that I some how missed a father figure. And I am very happy with my life. I like everyone have hit bumps here and there but I see them as learning experiences. I am happily married, have a wonderful family, the best husband anyone could ever ask for (he spoils me rotten), all in all I am very blessed. What I went through as a kid helped shape me into who I am today and I embrace that. Having faith in God does not make me feel superior to others. I respect your beliefs as I believe we have freedom of choice, they are not mine but that does not mean I think less of you or anyone else of any other faith. The thread is intended to explain why I bleieve what I do and how I came to believe what I do becasue it was requested of me.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Melissa101]